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[Inquisitor Julianos]

In a medieval Setting, the Word of the Church, and Nobility IS law.

[Xilizhra]

Let me explain to you that DA setting is not a XXI century with a secular democracy, Thedas is medieval with very harsh laws. Your modern ideals are out of touch with a setting. People will be executed, and Jowan's execution is totally justified and realistic. Sparing him with a modern humanism is not.

Do you have a proof that mages were made tranquil without their consent in the Ferelden Circle under Greagoir?

Well, there's certainly proof that they attempted it on Jowan, without any mention of it being unprecedented.

 

And I spared him because I still considered the attempts on his life to be unjustified in-universe. I even released him from Redcliffe Castle for the same reason.

[Inquisitor Julianos]

Umm... Jowan? He was going to be made tranquil without his consent.

Jowan was a Blood Mage, he poisoned Eamon, and set the whole Red Cliff thing into sway killing hundreds of people, even if that was not his intetion. the dude is Guilty, and was going to be executed either way, in a medieval setting, Criminals dont have rights, and most of the time, They.Just.Die.

[Daerog]

Let me explain to you that DA setting is not a XXI century with a secular democracy, Thedas is medieval with very harsh laws. Your modern ideals are out of touch with a setting. People will be executed, and Jowan's execution is totally justified and realistic. Sparing him with a modern humanism is not.

Do you have a proof that mages were made tranquil without their consent in the Ferelden Circle under Greagoir?

 

Some people (like myself, personally) don't believe morality or morals are limited to certain time periods... just saying, not meaning to argue, just offering ideas.

 

Doing things for the benefit of the Circle against templar orthodoxies is a pretty far cry from joining Tevinter. In that case templars are armed thugs for bloodmages.

 

Bah, propaganda and lies! The Imperium frowns upon blood magic and it is discouraged. Proper, Andrastian Magisters would uphold the faith of the Imperial Chantry as they all should!

[raging_monkey]

Thread just got really real* brings fire extingusher and popcorn*

[AresKeith]

Umm... Jowan? He was going to be made tranquil without his consent.

 

Jowan was a suspected Blood mage

[Star fury]

Well, technically Jowan would have been a nonvoluntary Tranquil. Xil is against the whole Tranquil thing it seems and is against the death penalty (which is respectable, besides that one woman who did blood magic and was responsible for killing Templars was given isolated imprisonment and not put to death, and she found faith, so why not Jowan? Kind of funny that she was given a cell and not Tranquilized in a place that was doing illegal Tranquilizations, but Jowan was made Tranquil if given over to the Circle, which my mage warden did).

I'm not sure about whole Tranquility subject, especially with a DA2 retcon of it. Still Tranquility sometimes can be the only choice in life and death situations.

Being against death penalty is fine in XXI century, in a medieval, feudal, racist Thedas with very harsh laws is completely unrealistic. You can't judge medieval people with your modern views. Which is exactly what Xilizhra is doing.

[Star fury]

In a medieval Setting, the Word of the Church, and Nobility IS law.

Yes, problem?

[Daerog]

Jowan was a suspected Blood mage

 

Idunna was a proven blood mage and was responsible for leading Templars to their deaths. She was neither executed or made Tranquil.

 

This was in Kirkwall of all places! Still surprised me, but hey, she found faith, so good for her.

 

(Looks like I switched to Xil's side for this bit, ha!)

[In Exile]

Jowan was a Blood Mage, he poisoned Eamon, and set the whole Red Cliff thing into sway killing hundreds of people, even if that was not his intetion. the dude is Guilty, and was going to be executed either way, in a medieval setting, Criminals dont have rights, and most of the time, They.Just.Die.

Criminals had rights in a medieval setting. People confuse the brutality of the setting with the lack of a legal system.

And anyway, you didn't say when did Gregoire turned people tranquil when they were suspected of being blood mages and he had hard evidence, you asked when he did it without consent.

[Star fury]

Some people (like myself, personally) don't believe morality or morals are limited to certain time periods... just saying, not meaning to argue, just offering ideas.

You should really read "The Ethical Engineer" by Harry Harrison.

[In Exile]

In a medieval Setting, the Word of the Church, and Nobility IS law.

That's not true at all. That's not how it was IRL either.

[Daerog]

I'm not sure about whole Tranquility subject, especially with a DA2 retcon of it. Still Tranquility sometimes can be the only choice in life and death situations.

Being against death penalty is fine in XXI century, in a medieval, feudal, racist Thedas with very harsh laws is completely unrealistic. You can't judge medieval people with your modern views. Which is exactly what Xilizhra is doing.

 

Tranquility can be a blessing if one is easy prey for demons. Who wants to be a slave to a demon in this life or after death, right?

 

Some people think you can criticize (I wouldn't call it judging, as you can't really pass a sentence on the past, but that's just me), others don't. I think it is good to try to find a universal morality and judge past, present, and future on it... not that you should call people of the past corrupt evil devils, because they probably did think they were doing good. Just sharing thoughts, again.

[AresKeith]

Idunna was a proven blood mage and was responsible for leading Templars to their deaths. She was neither executed or made Tranquil.

 

This was in Kirkwall of all places! Still surprised me, but hey, she found faith, so good for her.

 

(Looks like I switched to Xil's side for this bit, ha!)

 

Another mark for Kirkwall being the worst city ever

 

Because she should've been made tranquil or executed

[Aimi]

In a medieval Setting, the Word of the Church, and Nobility IS law.

 
hahaha nope
 

in a medieval setting, Criminals dont have rights, and most of the time, They.Just.Die.

Funny, all the medieval law codes that I've ever had to deal with say the exact opposite. Clovis, Ine, Gundobad, Leōn VI, Kazimierz III...they must've all been bleeding-heart outliers.

[Xilizhra]

Another mark for Kirkwall being the worst city ever

 

Because she should've been made tranquil or executed

Most inconsistent city, to be sure. Meredith really is remarkably like an abusive mother.

[Daerog]

You should really read "The Ethical Engineer" by Harry Harrison.

 

Looks like it is called Deathworld 2 (now at least, was called Ethical Engineer first) or something, after doing a quick look on Wikipedia. I like fantasy and science fiction, but will be a while before I can get into new books at the moment. Thanks for the suggestion, though!

[Star fury]

Idunna was a proven blood mage and was responsible for leading Templars to their deaths. She was neither executed or made Tranquil.

This was in Kirkwall of all places! Still surprised me, but hey, she found faith, so good for her.

(Looks like I switched to Xil's side for this bit, ha!)

She was a repenting blood mage and was spared. Just like in real history. How does that refute anything?

[Daerog]

She was a repenting blood mage and was spared. Just like in real history. How does that refute anything?

 

Eh, just throwing out arguments to keep the discussion going I guess. She was repentent after being captured, Jowan was a terrified fool... which does kind of make him more dangerous, but I do agree that the rules do say tranquil or death for maleficar (probably more often death), but it did seem to work out well for Idunna at least, which was nice.

 

Wonder if she is still a devout Andrastian now that the mages are rebelling and she probably got out... maybe...

[In Exile]

hahaha nope


Funny, all the medieval law codes that I've ever had to deal with say the exact opposite. Clovis, Ine, Gundobad, Leōn VI, Kazimierz III...they must've all been bleeding-heart outliers.

Keep in mind that most posters will typically default to common law jurisdictions and don't really have an awareness of legal codes.

[Inquisitor Julianos]

Yes, problem?

None im on your side dude.

[Star fury]

Looks like it is called Deathworld 2 (now at least, was called Ethical Engineer first) or something, after doing a quick look on Wikipedia. I like fantasy and science fiction, but will be a while before I can get into new books at the moment. Thanks for the suggestion, though!

Exactly. Deathworld 1 is the best book in the series and you should start from that, second book is quite enjoyable and funny while having a serious context.

[Daerog]

Keep in mind that most posters will typically default to common law jurisdictions and don't really have an awareness of legal codes.

 

I use exaggeration and omit some facts because I'm right, you're wrong. What's so hard to understand? 

[In Exile]

I use exaggeration and omit some facts because I'm right, you're wrong. What's so hard to understand?

I'm not saying you're wrong. Just trying to help out and explain the ignorance.

[Star fury]

Well, there's certainly proof that they attempted it on Jowan, without any mention of it being unprecedented.

And I spared him because I still considered the attempts on his life to be unjustified in-universe. I even released him from Redcliffe Castle for the same reason.

How Jowan's execution is unjustified? He committed so many crimes it's really impressive.