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The Templar Order Support Thread


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#351
loominousfish

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All Templar abilities... no Lyrium addiction...

 

Well, it doesn't say that she doesn't need lyrium, the Seekers are probably just better at regulating it? Which doesn't make much sense, why not share that knowledge with the Templars? Do the Templars take more so they are stronger? Maybe it is like Alistair, still able to do some abilities, but not as strong without taking lyrium... maybe?

 

That description is just confusing, why not have Seekers become as addled as Templars if they take lyrium?

 

Hmm. Perhaps the Seekers are better at regulating their lyrium intake, and the reason why the Templars have to take more lyrium is so that they are more easily controlled by the Chantry? I mean, for the longest time the Chantry controlled the bulk of the lyrium trade, didn't they? 

 

So this way, the Chantry has the Templars keeping the mages under check, and then they use lyrium to keep the Templars in check. Either way, they have these two groups of people firmly under their thumb (until they both rebel and break up into factions and go into all out war, but. You know.)



#352
The Baconer

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All Templar abilities... no Lyrium addiction...

 

Well, it doesn't say that she doesn't need lyrium, the Seekers are probably just better at regulating it? Which doesn't make much sense, why not share that knowledge with the Templars? Do the Templars take more so they are stronger? Maybe it is like Alistair, still able to do some abilities, but not as strong without taking lyrium... maybe?

 

That description is just confusing, why not have Seekers become as addled as Templars if they take lyrium?

 

Plot convenience.

 

My guess is that they wanted Cass to have the Templar spec without the unfortunate implications.



#353
Daerog

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Keep the Templars in check? I've never really bought into that theory, as it was mainly their zealotry that kept them under control. Their addiction to lyrium did not prevent them from rebelling, and it did add to corruption with the Cartel and apostates dealing with lyrium smuggling to Templars.



#354
Daerog

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Plot convenience.

 

My guess is that they wanted Cass to have the Templar spec without the unfortunate implications.

 

Ya, that is pretty lame. It's not like Cass will become all senile by the end of the game, just in the future, and it could be a dramatic point that comes up during a romance scene, or a joke during a romance scene, "Yes, even when you mistake me for some farmer, I will still love you" or whatever.



#355
CENIC

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Keep the Templars in check? I've never really bought into that theory, as it was mainly their zealotry that kept them under control. Their addiction to lyrium did not prevent them from rebelling, and it did add to corruption with the Cartel and apostates dealing with lyrium smuggling to Templars.

...I wonder if part of the reason they were able to rebel was because of the discovery of red lyrium, a source separate from the Chantry?



#356
Hanako Ikezawa

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All Templar abilities... no Lyrium addiction...

 

Well, it doesn't say that she doesn't need lyrium, the Seekers are probably just better at regulating it? Which doesn't make much sense, why not share that knowledge with the Templars? Do the Templars take more so they are stronger? Maybe it is like Alistair, still able to do some abilities, but not as strong without taking lyrium... maybe?

 

That description is just confusing, why not have Seekers become as addled as Templars if they take lyrium?

It's possible the Seekers know another way to garner the same abilities, but keep them secret for some reason. Like for example to give them an edge over the Templars in case they ever rebel since their role is to keep control of the Templars.  



#357
EmperorSahlertz

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All Templar abilities... no Lyrium addiction...

 

Well, it doesn't say that she doesn't need lyrium, the Seekers are probably just better at regulating it? Which doesn't make much sense, why not share that knowledge with the Templars? Do the Templars take more so they are stronger? Maybe it is like Alistair, still able to do some abilities, but not as strong without taking lyrium... maybe?

 

That description is just confusing, why not have Seekers become as addled as Templars if they take lyrium?

Well, historically speaking the Seekers of Truth have been the "über-Templars". They were the guys the Templars called in, when the Templars weren't equiped to handle the situation. So we can be pretty much certain that the Templars are not more powerful in their abilities than the Seekers. If the Seekers and the Templars are moving (storytellingwise) further apart as organization, being more distinct from eachother, then it makes sense that the Seekers wouldn't impart ALL their secrets to the Templars, so that the Seekers would remain relevant.

 

 
Malvernis is not soloabe because he can cause instant death every couple of minutes. Given that during soloing you will lack damage he will cast it and you will die. Actually one of the game's greatest challenges is doing this boss without Anders/healer Hawke on nightmare, its not soloable really.
 
Sorry I messed up the mechanic its 30%, I used some balancing modes of my own so I had to revert to vanilla. But it pales in comparison against the cooldown mechanic. Anders has 10% cooldown reduction as a passive spell named "swift justice". However this is the significant part:
 
Do you see the synergy between these spells? Anders will relentlessly cast spells by sacrificing health and he gains it back by killing enemies. Martyr has no cooldown and it reduces all cooldowns by 20% percent, so its even more effective on spells with higher cooldown. I have personally cast 5 chain lightnings while Hawke was still waiting for first cooldown to finish. The potential is limitless, you can permanently cast arcane prison on a strong enemy, cast inferno and tempest two times before the first one finishes raining, Heal every 10 seconds etc...
 
As for Aveline, she can gain 40% to all elemental resistance plus 10% magic resistance from defender tree. She also gains 25% damage resistance from her unique tree as well another 5% from defender. Damage resistance works against both physical and magical attacks They are more than enough, if not she can benefit another 20% from mage aura. More than this much magic resistance is unnecessary and overkill. 
 
One of my my motivations for not really playing templar or tank was Aveline. She is just too good, when proper talents are given she is immortal because she can never be killed until the cooldown of potion is ready again. Her reflect is also very significant in terms of damage, something tank Hawke sadly lacks. And the fact that she can reduce damage takes by 50% on a character and transfer it to her self is the most significant talent in the game, and its 60% for Hawke if Aveline is a friend. Aveline is everything. BTW I keep switching controls because I find it fun and it adds variance to the game.

Malvernis is still soloable. There is just a timetable. And iirc you can even avoid his insta-death "spell", it certainly isn't mapwide. But yes, Malvernis is one of the hardest bosses in the game, no matter how you play.

 

Yes. Anders does have a high dps. But he is not very versatile. Hawke is. That is why I will always rank Hawke higher in all scenarios.

 

The defender tree is also available to Hawke, so that is not something that speaks in favor of Aveline. The ONLY thing she has going for her, that is unique, is her own spec, and that offers no real benefits that a Hawke cannot outweigh (other than bodyguard which admitedly is really good, though it can lead to a very dead Aveline quickly). Retaliation may be nice on the lower difficulties, but it isn't even a drop in the ocean on Nightmare. Besides you shouldn't bring a tank to deal damage anyway to begin with. If you want your warrior to deal damage, then better bring your berserker/reaver, than Aveline. And while Aveline does get a high damage resistance, it is as you said yourself, often negated by enemies, and with her inherently low magic resistance, she will take the full damage of the spell.

Of course, if you aren't playing a warrior Hawke the entire point is moot, since you won't have any alternative tanks.


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#358
Hellion Rex

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Well, historically speaking the Seekers of Truth have been the "über-Templars". They were the guys the Templars called in, when the Templars weren't equiped to handle the situation. So we can be pretty much certain that the Templars are not more powerful in their abilities than the Seekers. If the Seekers and the Templars are moving (storytellingwise) further apart as organization, being more distinct from eachother, then it makes sense that the Seekers wouldn't impart ALL their secrets to the Templars, so that the Seekers would remain relevant.

.

I agree. It makes sense that the Seekers would literally hang on to some secrets.



#359
Daerog

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I agree. It makes sense that the Seekers would literally hang on to some secrets.

 

Old Inquisition secrets? Makes sense, I guess. Kind of like the Grey Wardens...

 

Although, this does seem to lessen the sacrifice that the Templars face to do their jobs. "Oh, great, you traded your mind in your later years so that you can protect your community in the present, how noble of you. By the way, it wasn't necessary!"

 

Just turns the Templars into victims...



#360
dragonflight288

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I got it. I know Alistair talks about not needing lyrium, and Fiona is possibly his mother.

 

You have to be elven or have elven blood in order to use templar talents without lyrium!  :P



#361
Hanako Ikezawa

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Old Inquisition secrets? Makes sense, I guess. Kind of like the Grey Wardens...

 

Although, this does seem to lessen the sacrifice that the Templars face to do their jobs. "Oh, great, you traded your mind in your later years so that you can protect your community in the present, how noble of you. By the way, it wasn't necessary!"

 

Just turns the Templars into victims...

Maybe the Seeker alternative is a lot more dangerous of difficult to accomplish. After all they only recruit the best of even the Templars to join their ranks. So the use of Lyrium is basically a way to mass produce the results and not have a lot of the potential recruits get injured or killed. 



#362
The Baconer

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So not only is it confirmed that the Chantry truly is a bunch of drug-pushing a-holes, but the Seekers are too? Actually, wouldn't this make the Seekers the original a-holes?



#363
Daerog

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Oh well, hopefully it is explained in game. November isn't so far away now.



#364
Icy Magebane

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I must say that this news about the Templar skills not actually requiring lyrium to use makes the Chantry look pretty bad... really bad actually.  I definitely wasn't expecting that... but on the bright side, I guess I don't have to worry about Hawke being addicted to lyrium or becoming addled in old age (if he lives that long) since he never needed to drink any offscreen. 

 

Isn't this pretty much what Alistair said in the beginning?  And then it was retconned in a blog post and comic book, but now we're back to the Templars not needing to drink lyrium?  I wonder why they keep changing the story...


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#365
raging_monkey

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I must say that this news about the Templar skills not actually requiring lyrium to use makes the Chantry look pretty bad... really bad actually.

wait i leave for work and templars dont use lyrium what the duece? Details my friend

#366
AresKeith

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I must say that this news about the Templar skills not actually requiring lyrium to use makes the Chantry look pretty bad... really bad actually. I definitely wasn't expecting that... but on the bright side, I guess I don't have to worry about Hawke being addicted to lyrium or becoming addled in old age (if he lives that long) since he never needed to drink any offscreen.


We don't know the whole case with Cassandra and the Seekers yet, they probably do need Lyrium but not a way around the addiction

As for Hawke it was speculated that Templar Hawke used smuggled Lyrium

#367
SgtSteel91

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It seems like a good spec to have, but not one I want my PC to take. It's the part where you have to keep huffing lyrium to keep using the ability that turns me off from taking it as my PC's specialization. I'd rather be friends with a Templar and have him do the anti-magic stuff. If my PC just had to huff lyrium once and then have the ability forever then I would change my mind.

 

 

Cassandra confirmed to be a Templar, though doesn't need to ingest Lyrium apparently. 

 

Well this is certainly a game changer for me. The post says that Cassandra doesn't have to worry about Lyrium addiction but I wonder if the Inquisitor can get those abilities like Cassandra did.



#368
Icy Magebane

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wait i leave for work and templars dont use lyrium what the duece? Details my friend

The screenshot of Cassandra's Templar spec tree says that Seeker have those abilities through special training but do not need to worry about lyrium addiction...  :0



#369
dragonflight288

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wait i leave for work and templars dont use lyrium what the duece? Details my friend

 

Cassandra's class description says that as a Seeker, she has access to all the templar abilities without the need for lyrium. 



#370
Icy Magebane

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We don't know the whole case with Cassandra and the Seekers yet, they probably do need Lyrium but not a way around the addiction

As for Hawke it was speculated that Templar Hawke used smuggled Lyrium

Right, well I think I'll just speculate that my versions of Hawke did it the way Alistair and Cassandra did...  if Bioware can't even stick to a single canon, I may as well do whatever I want with my head canon.


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#371
dragonflight288

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Well, just as I had spent months accepting the retcon of templars simply needing lyrium to use their abilities, we find out Seekers can use the abilities without lyrium.

 

This makes the Chantry look really bad. 


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#372
Icy Magebane

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Cassandra's class description says that as a Seeker, she has access to all the templar abilities without the need for lyrium. 

And if the Seekers have had access to such methods for who knows how long, then they should have told the Templars rather than keep them addicted to a dangerous substance they never actually needed.  It's kind of sickening, really... depending on how this gets explained, I don't think I can support the Chantry anymore.  This is flat out sinister.


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#373
raging_monkey

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Cassandra's class description says that as a Seeker, she has access to all the templar abilities without the need for lyrium.

dah ****! The chantry sounds more like a right **** even more after this
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#374
AresKeith

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Right, well I think I'll just speculate that my versions of Hawke did it the way Alistair and Cassandra did... if Bioware can't even stick to a single canon, I may as well do whatever I want with my head canon.


I think your jumping the gun too early. Templars still have Lyrium Addiction, these are the Seekers

Alistair had to use Lyrium again in the comics, and unless Hawke learned from a Seeker....

#375
dragonflight288

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And if the Seekers have had access to such methods for who knows how long, then they should have told the Templars rather than keep them addicted to a dangerous substance they never actually needed.  It's kind of sickening, really... depending on how this gets explained, I don't think I can support the Chantry anymore.  This is flat out sinister.

 

Tell me about it. I spent most of Origins before DA2 came out, and the retcon in the comics, not liking the Chantry at all because of Alistair's comments on lyrium addiction. Then it got retconned, I got used to it and even saw it as necessary and for volunteers, a noble self-sacrifice if the templar was at least decent. 

 

Now, I'm back to hating them for the original reasons I did before it was retconned before the retcon was retconned.