1325 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir DeLoria]

Seriously? That's your argument? Have you ever been bullied in school? Well, take that feeling and max it x100.

That really depends on the Circle.

Now, add the fact you don't have any privacy, no place to call your own because there are these guys in full armor looking at your EVERY movement, waiting there to strike you down and end your miserable life, because that's what they think of you.

Not all Templars, remember, they are there to protect you too. Some Templars may seem bad, but I'm pretty sure they're better than the vast majority of common folk.

And on top of that some people justify it. Which is probably the worst. "we lock up crazy people or criminals just the same, they are a risk to society" Implying magic is a disease or a crime. We are talking about people who were born this way. Do you think they chose it?

Of course not, the mages don't 'deserve' this, but all in all there is probably no better solution to this problem.

Just like Greagoire said: Magic is a gift and a curse.
 

I'm all up for the Circle working like a school, teaching both mages and non mages about magic (since magic is not a man created thing, it's part of Thedas) but seriously, what was happening in Kirkwall was not normal at all. 

No it wasn't normal, Templars and mages did mistakes and were out of the line. This doesn't conclude a fault in the entire system.

[MisterJB]

Besides, all Meredith accused him of was of protecting three mages that fled to Ferelden. As far as we know, Alistair delivered them to Ferelden's Circle.

[Hellion Rex]

I just watched the livestream and Vivienne provided an interesting take on how the mage rebellion started.

[raging_monkey]

I just watched the livestream and Vivienne provided an interesting take on how the mage rebellion started.

we know how it started through? Detail friend

[Hellion Rex]

we know how it started through? Detail friend

Well, what she did was recount basically what happened in Asunder from her perspective. Gimme a sec and I'll write it up.

[AresKeith]

I just watched the livestream and Vivienne provided an interesting take on how the mage rebellion started.

Tbh, she wasn't entirely wrong either

[raging_monkey]

Well, what she did was recount basically what happened in Asunder from her perspective. Gimme a sec and I'll write it up.

oh ok

[Hellion Rex]

Tbh, she wasn't entirely wrong either

I never said she wasn't lol.

[Lulupab]

Besides, all Meredith accused him of was of protecting three mages that fled to Ferelden. As far as we know, Alistair delivered them to Ferelden's Circle.

 

Hence I said slightly. He is not a strict pro-mage and he will put Ferelden before them but he does favor mages when it only comes to Mages OR Templars. And it fits nicely as Orlais is most likely pro-Templar. Its balances the sides. 

[AresKeith]

I never said she wasn't lol.

I know

Just stating that she made really good points

[Hellion Rex]

What Vivienne said today in the livestream -

 

Inquisitor: Tell me about the Circle of Magi.

 

Vivienne: Of course. Tell me what you wish to know.

 

Inquisitor: How did we come to this state, with the Circles in revolt?

 

Vivienne: You, my dear, are far too wise to have not realized that many of our colleagues live with their eyes closed. Safe inside their towers, they only thought of the Templars and their own resentment. Kirkwall gave the world a reason to remember its fear of magic. A mage killed hundreds with a snap of their fingers. Across Thedas, a new tangible fear of magic grew. Commoners and nobles alike called out to the Chantry for protection. But the malcontents in the towers thought nothing of this. They cared only for themselves and their anger at the new Templar restrictions. When a mage attempted to assassinate Divine Justinia, again, the mages protested the investigation. The leadership chose to vote on independence based on the intolerable conditions imposed by the Templars, sparing no thought to the fact that magic was more feared in the aftermath of these attacks than it had been since Tevinter's day. So long as they have their freedom, they could care little for riots or angry mobs or pitting mages against each other.

[Hazegurl]

I don't think they should have the power in the first place. The circle of magi is supposed to be autonomous but WoT says it isn't because the heavy templar presence in circles prevent it from being so. The templars are guards, a necessary role, but I think they need to know its restrictions. When the templars encroach on circle affairs, this is what should happen: The Rock - mages. Michael Cole - templars.

 

Oy vey, this forum is acting all sorts of wonky on me. I meant to click quote but accidentally liked the post. Now I got no option to unlike it. Anyway. I gotta say I disagree here.  The Circle works as a joint effort by Templar and Mages. They have to learn to work together. Circle affairs are so Templar affairs as well. Otherwise it'll be the case of one hand not knowing what the other is doing.

[TheJediSaint]

Vivienne telling it like it is.

[raging_monkey]

What Vivienne said today in the livestream -
 
Inquisitor: Tell me about the Circle of Magi.
 
Vivienne: Of course. Tell me what you wish to know.
 
Inquisitor: How did we come to this state, with the Circles in revolt?
 
Vivienne: You, my dear, are far too wise to have not realized that many of our colleagues live with their eyes closed. Safe inside their towers, they only thought of the Templars and their own resentment. Kirkwall gave the world a reason to remember its fear of magic. A mage killed hundreds with a snap of their fingers. Across Thedas, a new tangible fear of magic grew. Commoners and nobles alike called out to the Chantry for protection. But the malcontents in the towers thought nothing of this. They cared only for themselves and their anger at the new Templar restrictions. When a mage attempted to assassinate Divine Justinia, again, the mages protested the investigation. The leadership chose to vote on independence based on the intolerable conditions imposed by the Templars, sparing no thought to the fact that magic was more feared in the aftermath of these attacks than it had been since Tevinter's day. So long as they have their freedom, they could care little for riots or angry mobs or pitting mages against each other.

that sounds really familiar* sarcasm*

Viv makes some strong points. I dont like the circle but she is right

[Sir DeLoria]

Malcolm could have teach everyone in Lothering but then everyone would know he is an apostate and Templars would rain on him. You see the problem here?

That's why I said I'm okay with the Circle being a school. I don't deny the need to train and research magic. It's just the forcing part that i'm not okay with. Also, if Malcom was able to properly have a family and raise kids, why does the Circle deny mages that thing too? If a kid is born in the Circle, it becomes PROPERTY of the Chantry. How horrible is that...

Because that same mage may very well be a sociopathic and powerhungry madman. The Chantry doesn't trust a single man/woman to teach one or more potentially very dangerous and powerful mage(s). While this may seem extreme, the Chantry's distrust is not without base. Not every mage is a Malcolm Hawke, hell judging by people like Jowan not every mage is even competent enough to teach mage children.

Forcing might seem excessive, but asking politely will probably not work.

[Hellion Rex]

*HEAD DESK*

 

Minor spoilers about a certain...mage that I just caught in the livestream.

 

Dammit. Dammit. Dammit. Dammit.

More possible spoilers:  Looks like

Spoiler

Fiona

will still be among the living.

[Xilizhra]

*HEAD DESK*

 

Minor spoilers about a certain...mage that I just caught in the livestream.

 

Dammit. Dammit. Dammit. Dammit.

Oh, right, I forgot about that.

 

Awesomesauce. Thank you for reminding me; my mood needed perking up.

[Hazegurl]

I know this is off topic but I want to be sure:

 

In Origins, Alisatir said he didn't need lyrium to use Templar power but that was retconed later, right?

 

And in that comic series he was in, he said he took lyrium again to use his Templar powers, right?

In Origins Alistair says that you don't need Lyrium to learn Templar abilities but what it does is enhances the skills learned. I don't see why he would have to take it to relearn his abilities. The writing seems all over the place.

[Hellion Rex]

Oh, right, I forgot about that.

 

Awesomesauce. Thank you for reminding me; my mood needed perking up.

Well, at the very least, we get a chance to talk to her. So...if it was a conclave of mage leaders, why wasn't she caught in the blast?

[AresKeith]

Well, at the very least, we get a chance to talk to her. So...if it was a conclave of mage leaders, why wasn't she caught in the blast?

Hmmm, suspicious Fiona

[Xilizhra]

Well, at the very least, we get a chance to talk to her. So...if it was a conclave of mage leaders, why wasn't she caught in the blast?

Because the chances of assassination would be far too high?

[AresKeith]

Because the chances of assassination would be far too high?

The Divine had two assassination attempts on her and she showed up, Fiona not showing up because of the same still makes her suspicious

[Hazegurl]

Seriously? That's your argument?

You do realize that there are plenty of people who commit crimes just to intentionally get sent to prison and they do this for a variety of reasons. Homelessness, healthcare, education, et al. Comparing those reasons to school bullying is no comparison at all. There are lots of people who consider lack of freedom a small price to pay when dealing with harsher problems.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Seriously? That's your argument? Have you ever been bullied in school? Well, take that feeling and max it x100. Now, add the fact you don't have any privacy, no place to call your own because there are these guys in full armor looking at your EVERY movement, waiting there to strike you down and end your miserable life, because that's what they think of you.  And on top of that some people justify it. Which is probably the worst. "we lock up crazy people or criminals just the same, they are a risk to society" Implying magic is a disease or a crime. We are talking about people who were born this way. Do you think they chose it? 

 

I'm all up for the Circle working like a school, teaching both mages and non mages about magic (since magic is not a man created thing, it's part of Thedas) but seriously, what was happening in Kirkwall was not normal at all. 

 

And we do not even know about the Circle of Ostwick yet.... 

Your first paragraph is a blatant misrepresentation of how the Circle operates. The Templars do NOT stand guard everywhere (as is evidenced in the Magi Origin), nor do they think so lowly of the mages, as to be barely able to contain themselves from killing them. The Templars are present because mages ALWAYS present a real danger. They may, wether they choose or not (since apparently you have thing about choice), become an Abomination at any given moment while casting, and at any given night while sleeping. The Templars are there to contain an eventual situation.

 

Magic is neither a disease nor a crime. It is a RISK. Risks has to be tolerated or handled. The Circles handle it.

 

Except that if you don't get the proper training or don't realize you're a mage, you might just end up becoming posessed and killing your family and yourself. Bethany was lucky to have a mage as a father. What is a mage child with peasant parents going to do?

At least they would be FREEEEEEE while being torn apart by a horribly mutated previously loved one. You gotta appreciate the little things.

 

That's why I said I'm okay with the Circle being a school. I don't deny the need to train and research magic. It's just the forcing part that i'm not okay with. Also, if Malcom was able to properly have a family and raise kids, why does the Circle deny mages that thing too? If a kid is born in the Circle, it becomes PROPERTY of the Chantry. How horrible is that... 

Because Malcolm Hawke had Circle trainning and large made his children udnergo the exact same procedures, and they were lucky, AND they were the PC family? They have plot armor basically, since after installing DA2 just getting the message: "Whoops it seems your player character's father was an idiot and your entire family was horribly murdered by a raging magical mosnter, before you could even take your first step", would have been a letdown.

[EmperorSahlertz]

You do realize that there are plenty of people who commit crimes just to intentionally get sent to prison and they do this for a variety of reasons. Homelessness, healthcare, education, et al. Comparing those reasons to school bullying is no comparison at all. There are lots of people who consider lack of freedom a small price to pay when dealing with harsher problems.

And with good reason... Lack of "freedom" is a small price to pay to avoid starvation.