1325 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

We have corruption runes, which appears to mimic red lyrium weapons. We see it in the Crafting and Customization video.

 

Maybe it's a corruption sword following Meredith's sword design 

[PrinceLionheart]

The grand cleric likely didn't approve the search.

She was her immediate superior.

 

And if Act 3 proved anything, she intentionally dragged her heels on everything in the "name of peace."

[The Baconer]

The grand cleric likely didn't approve the search.

She was her immediate superior.

 

Meredith was already going over her head with the request for the Right of Annulment. If she searches the tower, finds the evidence of corruption, who would even bother to follow through with a punishment, after everything else she has done? Is Meredith afraid of Elthina wagging her finger?

[MisterJB]

We have corruption runes, which appears to mimic red lyrium weapons. We see it in the Crafting and Customization video.

That seems...unwise.

Well, at least we'll have an excuse to play an Inquisitor with widly shifting moods.

[Hellion Rex]

Maybe it's a corruption sword following Meredith's sword design 

I actually think that's what it is.

[Hellion Rex]

That seems...unwise.

I agree, at least from an RP perspective. That said, the staff I saw looked freakin' amazing with the red lightning effect that came with the Corruption rune.

[Icy Magebane]

I agree, at least from an RP perspective. That said, the staff I saw looked freakin' amazing with the red lightning effect that came with the Corruption rune.

No matter how nice they look, using weapons based on red lyrium doesn't sound like a good idea to me.  On my first few Inquisitors I will be banning the use of "corruption" runes for roleplaying reasons, regardless of how powerful they may be.  Well, I guess if the story addresses this and explains how the negative effects can be neutralized, that would be sufficient... but I doubt that will be the case.

[Keroko]

He couldn't stop her from doing anything she wanted in Act 3. It remained un-searched because of Meredith and Meredith alone.

 

Yes, because Meredith decided to follow the rules back then. Templars need an agreement for the First Enchanter for a great many things. Searching the tower is very likely to be one of them.

 

Remember, by the time of Act 3, she's been in possession of a red lyrium sword for a few years and in terrible mental condition. Act 3 Meredith is no longer the same Meredith from Acts 1 and 2.

[The Baconer]

Yes, because Meredith decided to follow the rules back then. Templars need an agreement for the First Enchanter for a great many things. Searching the tower is very likely to be one of them.

 

Right, but the events in question occur in Act 3.

 

 

Remember, by the time of Act 3, she's been in possession of a red lyrium sword for a few years and in terrible mental condition. Act 3 Meredith is no longer the same Meredith from Acts 1 and 2.

 

I would actually cite her Lyrium-induced insanity as the reason why she didn't have the tower searched.

[Keroko]

Right, but the events in question occur in Act 3.

 
Last struggling remains of her sanity then?
 

I would actually cite her Lyrium-induced insanity as the reason why she didn't have the tower searched.

How so? Red lyrium tends to turn people into frothing paranoids, not clear-headed people who realize that without either the First Enchanter's agreement or evidence justifying a full search is hard to do.

[The Baconer]

How so? Red lyrium tends to turn people into frothing paranoids, not clear-headed people who realize that without either the First Enchanter's agreement or evidence justifying a full search is hard to do.

 

It's not even hard to justify. There has already been a conspiracy involving Mages colluding with Templars at this point. It's not "clear-headed", it's a pointless and inane gesture, especially considering all the rules she was already bending in order to stamp out an extraordinary affliction of mage corruption.

[Sir DeLoria]

That seems...unwise.
Well, at least we'll have an excuse to play an Inquisitor with widly shifting moods.

Well, if it looks cool enough, it'll be totally worth it

[EmperorSahlertz]

Thrask continues that Meredith has been justifying murder of apostates when there is nothing to incriminating them. Killing any mage other those labeled as Maleficar is openly forbidden. Maleficar means a mage who has harmed someone or is simply a blood mage.

She changed the rules in the circle as well as kirkwall by stopping anyone from becoming Viscount. I'm not saying the whole Templar order is corrupted, I'm saying its too easy to be corrupt.

Killing an Apostate is NOT forbidden. The Circle and Templar Order however prefer to see Apostates brought to the Circles. However, if such Apostates are deemed too dangerous (or a truckload of other different factors), killing them is as an agreeable alternative. It is the other way around with Maleficar. The Circle and Templar Order generally prefers to see them executed, but there can be circumstances that allow mercy to be shown.

 

That Thrask was in disagreement with Meredith's policy, does NOT mean that Meredith was changing any rules. It simply meant that Thrask wasn't as strict as Meredith.

[Lulupab]

Killing an Apostate is NOT forbidden. The Circle and Templar Order however prefer to see Apostates brought to the Circles. However, if such Apostates are deemed too dangerous (or a truckload of other different factors), killing them is as an agreeable alternative. It is the other way around with Maleficar. The Circle and Templar Order generally prefers to see them executed, but there can be circumstances that allow mercy to be shown.
 
That Thrask was in disagreement with Meredith's policy, does NOT mean that Meredith was changing any rules. It simply meant that Thrask wasn't as strict as Meredith.

Blocking elections for viscount, making mages who passed their harrowings a tranquil, justifying murder of apostates because a single Templar killed them and deemed them dangerous. Attacking citizens of Kirkwall for feedings their apostate family members. These are chaning the rules and then some.

[Keroko]

It's not even hard to justify. There has already been a conspiracy involving Mages colluding with Templars at this point. It's not "clear-headed", it's a pointless and inane gesture, especially considering all the rules she was already bending in order to stamp out an extraordinary affliction of mage corruption.

I'm aware of the circumstances, but blaming the red lyrium for what is in essence an act of sanity (as the mages would not have taken a full search of the tower lightly) makes no sense.

Blocking elections for viscount, making mages who passed their harrowings a tranquil, justifying murder of apostates because a single Templar killed them and deemed them dangerous. Attacking citizens of Kirkwall for feedings their apostate family members. These are chaning the rules and then some.

By blocking the elections for a new viscount Meredith was indeed overstepping her bounds, but mages who passed their harrowing can still be deemed too dangerous and forced to undergo the rite. Apostates are, again, not under any form of protection. Any apostate who refuses to cooperate with the Chantry can be killed by Chantry law. Hell, we do it ourself a couple of times in Origins. Likewise families who defend apostates do not get away scot-free either.

[Lulupab]

By blocking the elections for a new viscount Meredith was indeed overstepping her bounds, but mages who passed their harrowing can still be deemed too dangerous and forced to undergo the rite. Apostates are, again, not under any form of protection. Any apostate who refuses to cooperate with the Chantry can be killed by Chantry law. Hell, we do it ourself a couple of times in Origins. Likewise families who defend apostates do not get away scot-free either.

 

Apostates who surrender are not killed, those families didn't "protect" apostates they merely fed them and the apostates were no longer there even. Making mages who passed their harrowing tranquil is utterly forbidden, its one of the very core laws of Chantry. 

[MisterJB]

Lulupab is right in saying that making an Harrowed mage Tranquil is utterly forbidden. However, Alrik's letter to his cohorts proves they were hiding their actions from Meredith.

[Sir DeLoria]

The Kirkwall Circle was crucially corrupted, the Kirkwall Templars were woefully weak and wrathful.

[Finnn62]

Well, I'm not too concerned whether Lyrium use is involved or not; I just can't wait to play as Templar Inquisitor!  

[The Baconer]

I'm aware of the circumstances, but blaming the red lyrium for what is in essence an act of sanity (as the mages would not have taken a full search of the tower lightly) makes no sense.

 

An act of insanity you mean. Mages reacting with violence to the search would only incriminate themselves, and give Meredith what she was going for anyway (and excuse to use the Right). It would also serve as a much more credible basis to enact the Right (thus more "sane") than doing it over the actions of a mage that is not part of the Kirkwall Circle.

[Lulupab]

The Kirkwall Circle was crucially corrupted, the Kirkwall Templars were woefully weak and wrathful.

Its easy to be hateful of Templars but I do see the flaws in Templar order and its laws itself rather than its members. They have too much power for a supposed police force and too less supervision. Given that they are on drugs most of the time adds to the disaster of a system. I don't know how they lasted this long to be honest.

[Lulupab]

Lulupab is right in saying that making an Harrowed mage Tranquil is utterly forbidden. However, Alrik's letter to his cohorts proves they were hiding their actions from Meredith.

What disgusts me is the fact that the caught starkhaven mages are either killed or tranquiled at random during act 2. If Hawke has made pro-mage decisions they are tranquiled at random and if not they are killed at random. I am sensitive to matters of law and this as medieval and backward as it gets. So you caught a group of supposed "criminals" who would rather eat carrion and sleep on dirt than to be in the circle and you randomly kill or tranquil three of them? WTF is this? Evidently the mastermind and blood mage among them who gets possessed in act 3 aka Grace gets to live and the unlucky three get punishment. The whole system must be shaken and fixed.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Blocking elections for viscount, making mages who passed their harrowings a tranquil, justifying murder of apostates because a single Templar killed them and deemed them dangerous. Attacking citizens of Kirkwall for feedings their apostate family members. These are chaning the rules and then some.

No they aren't.

Blocking the elections of a new official is a common part of martial law. No changing of any rules there.

Meredith didn't force tranquilization on any Harrowed mages, that weren't already breaking the law. Grace's group had broken the law, and severe punishment was due. In the Circle that means death or tranquilization.

Apostates are fugitives. Killing them is not illegal, hence not murder. Apostates, if deemed dangerous enough, are to be killed. No changing of rules there either.

Aiding fugitives is a criminal offense, aiding an Apostate even more so, since the threat an Apostate inherently pose. Therefore severe punishment is also due. Granted, we might think it a little overzealous to slaughter entire families for such an offense, but Thedas is not a nice place. Punishment in Thedas is usually non-existant, or extremely severe. No changing on the rules there either on the part of Meredith.

[Keroko]

Apostates who surrender are not killed, those families didn't "protect" apostates they merely fed them and the apostates were no longer there even. Making mages who passed their harrowing tranquil is utterly forbidden, its one of the very core laws of Chantry.

Could you remind me which quests the killed apostates and families feeding them were from again? I'd like to refresh my memory.

As for mages who passed their harrowing being free from the Rite, no. Any mage who cannot or will not control their powers can be made tranquil. Mages who passed the harrowing may be excluded from the former (as they have proven they can control their powers) but they may easily chose not to, at which point they may be subjected to the rite per Chantry law. There is no law stating that it is forbidden to brand mages who passed their harrowing.
 

An act of insanity you mean. Mages reacting with violence to the search would only incriminate themselves, and give Meredith what she was going for anyway (and excuse to use the Right). It would also serve as a much more credible basis to enact the Right (thus more "sane") than doing it over the actions of a mage that is not part of the Kirkwall Circle.

That assumes Meredith's main goal was the annulment of the Circle. I would disagree that this was her goal. Control of the mages was her goal, not their destruction. Not until Anders.
 

Its easy to be hateful of Templars but I do see the flaws in Templar order and its laws itself rather than its members. They have too much power for a supposed police force and too less supervision. Given that they are on drugs most of the time adds to the disaster of a system. I don't know how the lasted this long to be honest.

Mostly because of said drugs. The Chantry held monopoly over the lyrium trade until recently. Any templar who went rogue would be cut of from his supply of lyrium.

I am told withdrawal is not a pleasant thing.

Then there's the Seekers, which prior to getting corrupted themselves were the ones who ferreted out corruption in the templars (we see an example of this in Dawn of the Seeker).

But technically templars don't have a lot of power. They have no political office and their religious position is essentially limited to guard duty. And military-wise they may be a terrifying foe against mages, but against ordinary people they're just regular soldiers. Well armed and well trained soldiers, but with no special powers to speak off.

The only power templars have is that which the people give them. Meredith only got away with what she did after the qunari invasion because the nobility let her.

[The Baconer]

That assumes Meredith's main goal was the annulment of the Circle. I would disagree that this was her goal. Control of the mages was her goal, not their destruction. Not until Anders.

 

There is a host of evidence in the game that suggest it was her intention (in her Act 3 state), a lot more than whatever would imply otherwise. She was already going behind Elthina's back to request the Right directly from Val Royeaux. When Anders removed her only immediate obstacle in Elthina, she immediately enacts it while claiming it is essentially justified by "mob rule", even though is literally the opposite of her official mandate as a Templar.