1325 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Meredith was already going over her head with the request for the Right of Annulment. If she searches the tower, finds the evidence of corruption, who would even bother to follow through with a punishment, after everything else she has done? Is Meredith afraid of Elthina wagging her finger?

 

In a manner of speaking, yes. Meredith is certainly appealing over Elthina, but there's no indication that doing so is 'going over her head'- at least not in how the term is generally used. Despite Meredith's much greater effective power, it's pretty clear in Act 3 that she greatly respects Elthina and does not wish to openly cross her. It's a respect marked by disagreement, to be sure, but Meredith's restraint to Elthina's wishes comes far more from Meredith's desire than Elthina's power.

 

Elthina wagging her finger had far more influence on restraining Meredith's extremism than any threat of political retaliation by the Champion.

[The Baconer]

In a manner of speaking, yes.

 

Which I interpret as a manifestation of her... mental faculties as of Act 3.

 

Meredith is certainly appealing over Elthina, but there's no indication that doing so is 'going over her head'- at least not in how the term is generally used.

 

I don't see how it's not. Elthina won't grant Meredith authorization, so Meredith appeals to a higher authority who will (or so she hopes), whose decision cannot be overridden or denied by Elthina.

[Dean_the_Young]

Which I interpret as a manifestation of her... mental faculties as of Act 3.

 

Interpret it all you like, but Meredith cares about whether Elthina wags her finger or not.

 

 

 

I don't see how it's not. Elthina won't grant Meredith authorization, so Meredith appeals to a higher authority who will (or so she hopes), whose decision cannot be overridden or denied by Elthina.

 

That's a pretty standard grievance procedure when you have a disagreement with one's boss. There's nothing insidious, sneaky, or even subversive about it. Unless Meredith has no right to appeal, it's hardly circumventing (whether above her head or behind her back or any other bodily motion) Elthina's authority on the matter.

[herkles]

here is a question, did Elthinia know about the blood mages within the circle?

[The Baconer]

That's a pretty standard grievance procedure when you have a disagreement with one's boss. There's nothing insidious, sneaky, or even subversive about it. Unless Meredith has no right to appeal, it's hardly circumventing (whether above her head or behind her back or any other bodily motion) Elthina's authority on the matter.

 

I interpreted it as more "spiteful" than sneaky or insidious, given Meredith's interaction with Elthina early on in Act 1.

 

Edit: Gah, Act 3, sorry.

[raging_monkey]

here is a question, did Elthinia know about the blood mages within the circle?

i would hope not cause thats just pure negeligence and stupidity... if she'd know she wouldve had the moral right to protect the mundanes

[dragonflight288]

i would hope not cause thats just pure negeligence and stupidity... if she'd know she wouldve had the moral right to protect the mundanes

 

Well, the people in Val Reyeaux were suspicious of Resolutionists being behind everything. I'm sure Elthina may been kept infomed, but she also saw how much power the templars had seized in three years. She probably couldn't do anything directly to Meredith, not because she's her superior, which she was, but because Meredith had the largest armed force in the city, a willingness to use it, and the paranoia to think everyone and everything was a blood mage or influenced by it by Act 3. 

 

Heck, a pro-templar Hawke does exactly what she wants, and reports that Orsino wasn't behind Thrask's rebellion and she'll dismiss it entirely saying Hawke is a victim of blood magic. 

 

Meredith also had a templar death squad killing non-mages in broad daylight, this shows her willingness to use her forces. Also, look at her Knight-Lieutenants and Knight-Captain.

 

1. Cullen, a reasonable man who shared her views on mages and blood magic and was made captain for sharing them and for his experience with Uldred, but let's face, he had three years tops as a templar when given such a grand position. His experience with tracking apostates, interrogation, or even sensing corruption like Ser Otto does at the Denerim alienage is limited at best. Not a bad templar, but an inexperienced and traumatized one. 

 

2. Ser Kerras, a "crony of Meredith's" per Thrask in Act 1, who would slaughter every mage who hadn't surrendered by the time he arrived and Meredith would call him justified, regardless of evidence beyond the fact that they hadn't surrendered by the time he arrived, all in Act 1. This same man rapes Alain and threatens him to keep it quiet, and confirms in Act 3 that Meredith is appealing to the Divine for the Right of Annulment and going over Elthina's head, and expresses great joy in killing mages. 

 

However, I should note that if you're  a mage Hawke and have Varric b.s. to him about Hawke being an Enchanter who volunteered to help the Templars track down the apostates, he is surprisingly appreciative and thanks Hawke, and mentions that not many mages are willing to work with the templars. 

 

3. Ser Alrik. A sadist through and through, who illegally tranquilizes mages and goes to great lengths to keep it secret, and it's heavily implied that he uses these same tranqil as sex slaves. The fact that he even proposed the Tranquil Solution, regardless of it being denied, is worthy of investigation into his character and use of his authority as a templar. Also add in that the tranquil in the courtyard are pretty open about his abuse of power. All it would take to gather evidence on him, is to count the number of tranquil, and look at the records that, we know from DAO, require both the Knight-Commander AND the First Enchanter to sign in order for it to be authorized. 

 

Him keeping his actions secret from Meredith does not actually remove the evidence of it. All she would have to do is look at who is and isn't tranquil and look at her own records, and then investigate her own templars. 

 

4. Ser Mettin. He only appears in Act 3 as the head of Meredith's death squad. If you play pro-templar, you can work with another templar and get a more humane templar leading the investigations into escaped apostates without killing people, but if you play pro-mage, you see him attempt to kill a cousin to a mage for the high crime of giving a badly beaten and starved family member some food and a couch to sleep on, without a trial or even presenting her to the magistrate as aiding and abetting an escaped fugitive. 

 

Out of these Knight-Lieutenants and Captain, only the Captain is in any way reasonable, save for Kerras' surprising moment if Varric b.s.' to him, and he is traumatized, only months out of Ferelden when we meet him and already Knight-Captain, and he was promoted, as per his own codex, because of his views on mages being similar to her own. 

 

One or two people in authority we can pass off as individuals abusing the system and keeping her in the dark. Three or four, as I have pointed out, even though Cullen isn't abusing the system at all, creates a pattern. 

 

So we have an established pattern in the kind of people Meredith was promoting, even before she got the idol. 

 

With this kind of pattern, Elthina may very well have been threatened had she taken action against Meredith. 

[raging_monkey]

Well i guess if we think of it like that it makes sense

[herkles]

basically it comes down to the fact that kirkwall was screwed from the begining of the game

[raging_monkey]

basically it comes down to the fact that kirkwall was screwed from the begining of the game

its funny because its true... if only da2 never messed up the MT issue... i think we all wouldve been friends

[dragonflight288]

its funny because its true... if only da2 never messed up the MT issue... i think we all wouldve been friends

 

If they ended it with the Qunari, or heck, a Qunari agent like Tallis blowing up the Chantry, everyone would probably be friends. 

[raging_monkey]

If they ended it with the Qunari, or heck, a Qunari agent like Tallis blowing up the Chantry, everyone would probably be friends.

i wouldve been fine(i say that loosly) with that(maybe not tallis i like here)

[dragonflight288]

i wouldve been fine(i say that loosly) with that(maybe not tallis i like here)

 

'Cause she got your nose? 

[raging_monkey]

'Cause she got your nose? 

cause she has red hair

[dragonflight288]

cause she has red hair

 

So I guess you love Leliana and Aveline as well. 

[raging_monkey]

So I guess you love Leliana and Aveline as well. 

yes i have a few saves for lelsbut morri is my canon.
MagesXmages is a general rule i follow with my canons cass is the execption for my canon inq

[Star fury]

its funny because its true... if only da2 never messed up the MT issue... i think we all wouldve been friends

That's boring, hating the templars is too much fun.

[raging_monkey]

That's boring, hating the templars is too much fun.

but it get tiring though lol

[dragonflight288]

but it get tiring though lol

 

Then people switch over to hating elves, we have a bunch of elf threads pop up, trolls swarm there, they get shut down, then mage/templar stuff comes up again.

 

Rinse and repeat. 

[raging_monkey]

Then people switch over to hating elves, we have a bunch of elf threads pop up, trolls swarm there, they get shut down, then mage/templar stuff comes up again.
 
Rinse and repeat. 

thats so sad it actually hurts me XD

[Master Warder Z_]

I wonder if Templars get their weapons blessed.

[RobRam10]

I wonder if Templars get their weapons blessed.

They don't.

[Daerog]

I wonder if Templars get their weapons blessed.

 

I don't see why not. I think the Mother in Origins was more opposed to the fact the soldiers thought the blessing would make them invincible when she was asked to bless some medals for them.

 

Maybe they pass Templar blades through an Eternal Flame? Kind of symbolizing the Blade of Mercy?

 

Edit: Could be wrong, been a while since I played Origins. While the Maker doesn't directly intervene, he still watches, and I don't know if they ever said that Andraste could intervene or not, but Inquisition seems to show that the Chantry (or at least the faithful) does believe that Andraste can have some influence on events.

 

Edit2: Maybe the Maker can grant gifts to the faithful during certain trials, as I recall Meredith asking the Maker to give her strength... I have to look at WoT again on the Chantry...

[herkles]

I wonder if Templars get their weapons blessed.

 

do they get actual holy powers? no. 

 

but I wouldn't be surprised if a prayer might be said over their weapon when it is given to a templar. 

[dragonflight288]

I don't see why not. I think the Mother in Origins was more opposed to the fact the soldiers thought the blessing would make them invincible when she was asked to bless some medals for them.

 

Maybe they pass Templar blades through an Eternal Flame? Kind of symbolizing the Blade of Mercy?

 

Edit: Could be wrong, been a while since I played Origins. While the Maker doesn't directly intervene, he still watches, and I don't know if they ever said that Andraste could intervene or not, but Inquisition seems to show that the Chantry (or at least the faithful) does believe that Andraste can have some influence on events.

 

Edit2: Maybe the Maker can grant gifts to the faithful during certain trials, as I recall Meredith asking the Maker to give her strength... I have to look at WoT again on the Chantry...

 

Ser Perth wanted the amulets because they are blessed and have the Chantry's holy symbol on it, and when the Warden mentions they aren't magical, he says outright he does not want anything to do with magic, and the amulets would suffice as they are holy. 

 

I think the Revered Mother had it right, Ser Perth believed she was holding back the Maker's protection, and had more faith in the symbol and less faith in himself and the Maker helping him based on that.