1325 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

That's not an attack, its the truth. 

You realize that perverts can apply to ANY job, yes? So the reason you point out the Templars specifically? Oh right, because you are petty.

[Jerkules17]

Love the templar order,but I don't have the heart to be so unforgiving. Still Meredith is so hot,wish Hawke could romance her.   He could have stop the red lyrium's effect on her,and avoid the war.

[Xilizhra]

I'd say a bigger sign of problems with the templars is that they screen out people who are too moral, as seen in the codex.

[The Ascendant]

Anyways, I wonder how the Templars will react to a non human Inquisitor who wants to ally with them. I plan on having a Pro Templar Qunari Warrior in one playthrough. It should be interesting.

[Lulupab]

You realize that perverts can apply to ANY job, yes? So the reason you point out the Templars specifically? Oh right, because you are petty.

 

Not really, they have to be extra careful to fill anywhere else. As Xil said the codex specifically mentions Templars are only picky when they see people who are willing to let go of morality to get things done and applaud zealotry in the name of the order.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Not really, they have to be extra careful to fill anywhere else. As Xil said the codex specifically mentions Templars are only picky when they see people who are willing to let go of morality to get things done and applaud zealotry in the name of the order.

Which is, of course, an oversimplification of what the Templars do with their recruits. OF COURSE morality is gonna be of secondary priority in the line of work of the Templars. Sometimes the Templars are gonna be called upon to do what most people wouldn't dream of. Take mage children away from parents. Take mage parents away from children. Kill mage parents/children. All of those actions does NOT need a Templar suddenly questioning his orders.

You don't train soldiers in real life to be pillars of morality either. FOR GOOD REASONS.

 

(And it should also be noted that the codex entry of the Templars (which is the ONLY mention of recruitment emphasis on zealotry) is written by a First Enchanter, who may have an antagonistic relationship with Templars.)

[Hellion Rex]

Black Templar from an upcoming trailer? Hell yes!

 

Spoiler

[Xilizhra]

Which is, of course, an oversimplification of what the Templars do with their recruits. OF COURSE morality is gonna be of secondary priority in the line of work of the Templars. Sometimes the Templars are gonna be called upon to do what most people wouldn't dream of. Take mage children away from parents. Take mage parents away from children. Kill mage parents/children. All of those actions does NOT need a Templar suddenly questioning his orders.

You don't train soldiers in real life to be pillars of morality either. FOR GOOD REASONS.

 

(And it should also be noted that the codex entry of the Templars (which is the ONLY mention of recruitment emphasis on zealotry) is written by a First Enchanter, who may have an antagonistic relationship with Templars.)

Maybe it's a fairly large, obvious sign that a lot of templar practices are deplorable, hm?

 

Also, most majorly "immoral" actions undertaken by soldiers would fall into the category of "war crimes," so no, morality does remain important there.

[Lulupab]

Which is, of course, an oversimplification of what the Templars do with their recruits. OF COURSE morality is gonna be of secondary priority in the line of work of the Templars. Sometimes the Templars are gonna be called upon to do what most people wouldn't dream of. Take mage children away from parents. Take mage parents away from children. Kill mage parents/children. All of those actions does NOT need a Templar suddenly questioning his orders.

You don't train soldiers in real life to be pillars of morality either. FOR GOOD REASONS.

 

(And it should also be noted that the codex entry of the Templars (which is the ONLY mention of recruitment emphasis on zealotry) is written by a First Enchanter, who may have an antagonistic relationship with Templars.)

 

I really don't think I needed the codex to decide what the codex said. The problem lies with the fact that Templars didn't had the supervision our soldiers have which is the main reason they showed middle finger to Thedas and are now rampaging it. I think you know as well as me that Templars need a very good spanking after the mess is over. The Templars, based on their political and military power and supervision are similar to black ops not normal soldiers and we know how they operate. There is a reason people worried templars might get cerberus treatment because they started acting like them.

[themageguy]

If I am not mistaken, the new novel Last Flight did include a dwarven Templar. And there has been mention on the forums about Elven Templars aswell. And we did see that Qunari in Seeker armor in WoT. So the concept of non-human Templars isn't entirely alien.

That qunari seeker looked pretty damn intimidating

[EmperorSahlertz]

Maybe it's a fairly large, obvious sign that a lot of templar practices are deplorable, hm?

 

Also, most majorly "immoral" actions undertaken by soldiers would fall into the category of "war crimes," so no, morality does remain important there.

I don't think the Templars themselves even debate that. Taking children away from their parents IS a terrible thing. But it is a necessity in the case of mage children. Templars do what they do, because it must be done. Not because it is "nice".

 

I really don't think I needed the codex to decide what the codex said. The problem lies with the fact that Templars didn't had the supervision our soldiers have which is the main reason they showed middle finger to Thedas and are now rampaging it. I think you know as well as me that Templars need a very good spanking after the mess is over. The Templars, based on their political and military power and supervision are similar to black ops not normal soldiers and we know how they operate. There is a reason people worried templars might get cerberus treatment because they started acting like them.

Except that we KNOW from the devs that you can side with the Templars, and thus they won't be getting the Cerberus treatment. And there are enough of us, even on the BSN, that actually supports the Templars and what they stand for, that we whole heartedly disagree that the Templars are to be punished for what they've done. We are of the mindset that it is the mages, who needs to be put back in their places.

And we also KNOW that the Templars were supervised, and punished whenever they broke the rules and/or laws. However, Kirkwall was atypical in this (even though Kirkwall clearly also had oversight since Alrik needed to keep his doings secret).

[raging_monkey]

Black Templar from an upcoming trailer? Hell yes!
 

Spoiler

ahh feels good to have representation was starting to feel like duncan and izzy and myself were the only ones XD #represented

*Note i am joking do not intend to sound ignorant or offensive:)*

[Xilizhra]

I don't think the Templars themselves even debate that. Taking children away from their parents IS a terrible thing. But it is a necessity in the case of mage children. Templars do what they do, because it must be done. Not because it is "nice".

No, it must not be done. At least not in the way that it's currently done. I even came up with an alternative: building villages around Circles where the mundane families of mages can live to remain in closer contact.

[EmperorSahlertz]

No, it must not be done. At least not in the way that it's currently done. I even came up with an alternative: building villages around Circles where the mundane families of mages can live to remain in closer contact.

And it was shot down by multiple people. Just because you can conjure up some imaginary scenario, and it works in your head, does not actually mean that it works.

[Lulupab]

Except that we KNOW from the devs that you can side with the Templars, and thus they won't be getting the Cerberus treatment. And there are enough of us, even on the BSN, that actually supports the Templars and what they stand for, that we whole heartedly disagree that the Templars are to be punished for what they've done. We are of the mindset that it is the mages, who needs to be put back in their places.

And we also KNOW that the Templars were supervised, and punished whenever they broke the rules and/or laws. However, Kirkwall was atypical in this (even though Kirkwall clearly also had oversight since Alrik needed to keep his doings secret).

 

I know they are not getting the treatment but it would have made sense if they did. The Templars could have stood with the Chantry to stop the mages but they didn't, instead they went rogue which really doesn't make them any better than mages if not making them worse, a police force getting rogue is so much worse. Do not doubt the fact that the devs will balance both sides, meaning the Templars are not the respected order anymore nor they stand for what they used to. Controlling the mages is not the same with controlling mages and damn all the consequences. Its by very definition heresy and if we side with Templars I guarantee it won't be Lambert Templars'.

 

The fact that the Templars can start a global war contradicts the very definition of supervision.

[The Ascendant]

This kind of reminds me of Injustice Gods Among Us, both the game and the comic. Both great. Look them up. It's a very interesting take on the freedom/security debate that is represented in the Dragon Age Universe as Mages/Templars. 

[Xilizhra]

And it was shot down by multiple people. Just because you can conjure up some imaginary scenario, and it works in your head, does not actually mean that it works.

Shot down by whom? And it was hardly unanimous.

[raging_monkey]

And it was shot down by multiple people. Just because you can conjure up some imaginary scenario, and it works in your head, does not actually mean that it works.

what about shipping them on to a island were they cant hurt anybody but themselves.

[EmperorSahlertz]

what about shipping them on to a island were they cant hurt anybody but themselves.

That is only a short-term solution, and not a perfect one at that. You would essentially be establishing a second Tevinter Imperium.

 

Shot down by whom? And it was hardly unanimous.

Anyone with a basic knowledge of sociology, politics and logistics.

 

I know they are not getting the treatment but it would have made sense if they did. The Templars could have stood with the Chantry to stop the mages but they didn't, instead they went rogue which really doesn't make them any better than mages if not making them worse, a police force getting rogue is so much worse. Do not doubt the fact that the devs will balance both sides, meaning the Templars are not the respected order anymore nor they stand for what they used to. Controlling the mages is not the same with controlling mages and damn all the consequences. Its by very definition heresy and if we side with Templars I guarantee it won't be Lambert Templars'.

 

The fact that the Templars can start a global war contradicts the very definition of supervision.

"Lambert's Templars" is practically ALL Templars and Seekers. With the loss of Lambert, the Templar Order MAY have fractured into several different factions (even though nothing in the reveals so far suggests that).

And I don' think heresy means what you think it means.... There is NOTHING the Templars are currently doign that is essentially heretical. Going against the wishes of the Chantry is NOT heresy. It is at worst disobedience. But since the Templars and Seekers annulled the accord, the Chantry no longer gets to give them orders. As a matter of fact, the Templars didn't even go rogue, they merely went "solo". Splitting from the Chantry was perfectly legal for the Orders.

 

Oh, and it ISN'T a global war..... It may take place in several nations, but it is ONLY mages and Templars/Seekers who participate. Nations are not involved.

[Xilizhra]

Anyone with a basic knowledge of sociology, politics and logistics.

Then enlighten me.

[raging_monkey]

That is only a short-term solution, and not a perfect one at that. You would essentially be establishing a second Tevinter Imperium.
 

Anyone with a basic knowledge of sociology, politics and logistics.
 

"Lambert's Templars" is practically ALL Templars and Seekers. With the loss of Lambert, the Templar Order MAY have fractured into several different factions (even though nothing in the reveals so far suggests that).
And I don' think heresy means what you think it means.... There is NOTHING the Templars are currently doign that is essentially heretical. Going against the wishes of the Chantry is NOT heresy. It is at worst disobedience. But since the Templars and Seekers annulled the accord, the Chantry no longer gets to give them orders. As a matter of fact, the Templars didn't even go rogue, they merely went "solo". Splitting from the Chantry was perfectly legal for the Orders.
 
Oh, and it ISN'T a global war..... It may take place in several nations, but it is ONLY mages and Templars/Seekers who participate. Nations are not involved.

why does everyone assume a 2nd imperium, they have a cultural acceptance of magic and evolved in that way. The southern magic are the cultural opposite so its possible that they can be the opposite of tevinter. Plus i never said their wouldnt be some oversite my friend.

Didnt gaider say it was distressing that tevinter is some pancea for magi or something?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Then enlighten me.

A family who bears a mage child in Gwaren is NOT going to be able to relocate to Kinloch Hold. They cannot afford it, nor can they even make the travel to begin with. The Circle cannot fund it, since they would have to expend all their profits on making sure the families uproot themselves and move. The Teyrnir of Gwaren would probably not even want the entire family to leave, since it would be lost revenue from produce and taxes. And no bannorn, arlings, or teyrnirs would be interrested in Kinloch Hold amassing enough power to be considered a bannorn of its own.

 

Practically problem upon problem to even make it succeed. And even if it did succeed it would be mirred in even more problems.

[RobRam10]

That is only a short-term solution, and not a perfect one at that. You would essentially be establishing a second Tevinter Imperium.

And that is a bad thing?!

[The Elder King]

@Lulupab: based on The Nevarran Accord templars and Seekers didn't Break any laws when they left the Chantry. The latter (or at least Justinia) shown a stance incompatible with The Templar one, so they had every right to annull The Accord. I do wonder What their goal will be after Lambert's 'death'.
Also, both mages and templars in DAI are at their worse, given What they're doing to the population.

[The Elder King]

And that is a bad thing?!

Based on his perspective, yes. On your perspective, no...though I wonder if you really want a rival for your Tevinter .