1325 réponses à ce sujet

[Milan92]

Considering how the Mortalitasi run the show in Nevarra, I don't know if I want to see necromancers in a more powerful position than they already are there.

 

Inquisitor Mage Necromancer: 

 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Considering how the Mortalitasi run the show in Nevarra, I don't know if I want to see necromancers in a more powerful position than they already are there.

I think the Pentaghast clan has something to say about that. Sure, Mortalitasi have a great deal of influence, but the Pentaghast clan still runs the show.

[MisterJB]

Indeed, I don't "support" tevinter but there are some aspects I really like about them such as their circle system (freedom to have property, titles and family). Oh and I admire everything that is the enemy of Orlais and Tevinter is no exception. My most favorite is without a doubt Ferelden which I think can be the first in bringing positive changes to southern circles.

 

Tevinter without slavery would be the best nation ever.

So, you have no issue with thew fact all non-mages are second class citizens?

[Xilizhra]

So, you have no issue with thew fact all non-mages are second class citizens?

I have no more issue with that than with all non-nobles being second-class citizens everywhere else.

[Lulupab]

So, you have no issue with thew fact all non-mages are second class citizens?

They are not second class, they simply cannot be nobility. They still have every right a Tevinter citizen has unlike city elves who are purely second class citizens. They can can have property, marry and have any none-political job. One cannot become a noble in rest of Thedas too, you can argue they can in rare cases but then mundanes give birth to mages too which automatically makes them lesser nobles in tevinter so its not really different. Is it safe to claim people who are not nobles second class? You are born a mage, you are born a noble. Not much difference apart from the fact that the former is actually a difference where as the latter is simply a label.

And I have no problem with this, No. The rest of Thedas is biased towards mundanes, it doesn't hurt to have one that favors mages. None-nobles of south and none-mages of Tevinter are not treated any differently.

[MisterJB]

They are not second class, they simply cannot be nobility. They still have every right a Tevinter citizen has unlike city elves who are purely second class citizens. They can can have property, marry and have any none-political job. One cannot become a noble in rest of Thedas too, you can argue they can in rare cases but then mundanes give birth to mages too which automatically makes them lesser nobles in tevinter so its not really different. Is it safe to claim people who are not nobles second class? You are born a mage, you are born a noble. Not much difference apart from the fact that the former is actually a difference where as the latter is simply a label.

And I have no problem with this, No. The rest of Thedas is biased towards mundanes, it doesn't hurt to have one that favors mages. None-nobles of south and none-mages of Tevinter are not treated any differently.

I'm not going to claim that things are perfect in the rest of Thedas but let's make no mistakes here; non-mages are most certainly second class citizens in Tevinter. Just being unable to hold any position of authority, by itself, makes them second class citizens for it means that they are completely absent from any decision making that will, inevitably affect their lives.

The distinction between classes exist in Southern Thedas but there is mobility within it. Limited but it exists with someone like Loghain becoming a noble with a voice in the landsmeet or in the Anderfels, where anyone can become a Grey Warden or even in Orlais where peasants with enough wealth can be granted noble titles through the Council of Heralds.

In Tevinter, this is impossible. You may give birth to a mage but, at best, you'll live in a fancier house so long as he is not killed by another apprentice; you're still unable to have any voice beyond that which you can whisper into your son.

 

Then, there is, of course, the matter of representation. If you do not believe that being ruled by people who are like you rather than part of an entirely different social group, then you should have no problems with the Circle being ruled by Templars or the Chantry.

 

Finally, I will remind you that what you said was that "without slavery, Tevinter would be the best nation ever". This indicates that you think a nation biased towards mages is preferable to a nation biased towards normal people rather than that you simply like that there is one nation biased towards mages because all others are biased towards normals.

[Xilizhra]

Then, there is, of course, the matter of representation. If you do not believe that being ruled by people who are like you rather than part of an entirely different social group, then you should have no problems with the Circle being ruled by Templars or the Chantry.

Nobles are also an entirely different social group.

Personally, I don't like any government in Thedas, and that includes Tevinter.

[herkles]

I think the Pentaghast clan has something to say about that. Sure, Mortalitasi have a great deal of influence, but the Pentaghast clan still runs the show.

 

Indeed. Also the necromancers are not evil, at least not the Mortaltasi. Creepy yes, wild rumors of them being evil? yes, but everything about them has prsented them as decidedly not evil. Which I like, I like there being an order of non-evil necromancers

[Lulupab]

Finally, I will remind you that what you said was that "without slavery, Tevinter would be the best nation ever". This indicates that you think a nation biased towards mages is preferable to a nation biased towards normal people rather than that you simply like that there is one nation biased towards mages because all others are biased towards normals.

 

Basically you are nitpicking at that less than 1% who rise above their station then? Good to know. Just reminding you that if you give birth to a mage, all sons and daughters born from you will be elevated to a higher class. mage or no. Mundanes who are known to give birth to mages are above those who don't, its like nobility by marriage in rest of nations. Meaning while you won't do much, your children have opportunity now, it equates that less than 1% chance of other nations. 

 

And that was my personal opinion, I like magic and I think it should exist. Not to mention if by chance there is a way to for example solidify veil permanently this will only come from Tevinter because no one else cares to work on this but them and they have the power to do work on it unlike other mages. There is nothing to hold against Tevinter other than their slavery, its a pro-mage society and even the none-mages like it. The influence of noble blood is not different than mage blood. There is no alternative in Thedas for selecting a ruler, being born as a mage is not any better than someone's fathers doing something great which makes a family noble. In either case being born does not grant anything superior to have the power to rule. This is also why I like Ferelden a lot because they represent what we call democracy the most in Thedas. The landsmeet can overrule the ruler in any matter if hey wished, even his ruling power itself.

 

Actually now that I think about it I have dilemma between Ferelden and a Tevinter without slavery.

[Grimmdead]

Spoiler

 

So... the census is that I shouldn't start erecting the stakes and should NOT be burned? t's not like we are allowed to tie them to post's and tickle them with feathers... that itself seems a lot more cruel.

 

Second class or not, I am willing to bet that the non-magic humans still live far better lives than elves.

[Lulupab]

Second class or not, I am willing to be that the non-magic humans still live far better lives than elves.

 

And you are right, they can do anything but having a political career.

[SmilesJA]

Spoiler

 

So... the census is that I shouldn't start erecting the stakes and should NOT be burned? t's not like we are allowed to tie them to post's and tickle them with feathers... that itself seems a lot more cruel.

 

Second class or not, I am willing to be that the non-magic humans still live far better lives than elves.

 

It's easy to live a better life when you're restricting the others rights and treating them like thrash.

[Grimmdead]

It's easy to live a better life when you're restricting the others rights and treating them like thrash.

 

I was really hoping the whole Monty Python Witch Scene would be enough to give the notion that the whole things a big joke. Just because someone is different shouldn't mean that they can't have the same options available at a given time. Granted just like today, people are born into the class of their parents affordable lifestyle. Some obviously have it super easy with their parents being very well off, and others having to work to get a slice of the good life. Bringing this back a couple eras to fit the society we see in the various countries of Thedas we can see that  those with the coin, and those with the strength to take action end up leading the pack while others are stepped on in the process.... is it fair? No. But either way its going to happen while we like it or not. The big wigs in the Motor industry would be nothing with out the labor of the steel mill worker, the factory line worker... Doctors would have never gotten through med school with out the assistance of the Nurse's they work with during their residency, Tony Stark would have gotten no where in life had his father not build Stark Industries on a hope and a dime... inspired by some of the greatest (real life) inventors of our time, one of which is Nicholas Tesla. **** happens and it is without question unfair. but to support Thrask, you have to look at the history of the people and the parties involved. 

 

To try to bring things full circle (pun originally not intended) We have to see what lead to the templars in Kirkwall becoming as harsh and as persistent as they ended up being. It could have been everything from mass paranoia fueled by the war mongering of their Knight Commander, actual proof of blood magic being practiced by circle members under their watch, the fact Kirkwall housed a circle of magi so close to the city, when compared to other  tower locations elsewhere... We never had the chance to join the Templars to discover what they saw inside the Circle that would spark such a constant witch hunt for the mages they marked as "blood magic practitioners 

 

Along side the stress of the Qunari Refusal to leave and the sudden death of the Viscount, the Templars who may have already been stretched thin picking up the slack where the City Guard should have been. The Kirkwall Templars had far too much on their plates due to Meridith's intrusion of what the City Guards responsibilities. They should have realized that they had over stepped their boundaries and should have focused more on their duties as protectors of the magi, and policing the studies of the mages in the circle. The paranoia brought by the Knight Commander had blinded them to the notion that not all magic is blood magic.... that is unless you call families that seem to bring a newborn mage into the world with every generation a blood mage. And I've yet to even bring in the fact Elves have a much longer history in the world and we seem to constantly be either raging war against them, enslaving them, or treating them like scum of the earth or worse. 

 

I would love to see what the thedas genome project (human genome project parody) would look like should it become a necessary precaution to start screening the blood of noble families to try to catch when one would be born.

 

That's it I'm taking the Qun.

[Hellion Rex]

I think the Pentaghast clan has something to say about that. Sure, Mortalitasi have a great deal of influence, but the Pentaghast clan still runs the show.

Except Markus Pentaghast is still feeble and on the throne, with the Mortalitasi ruling through him. Even if Markus were to die, I don't see the Mortalitasi giving up that kind of power without a fight. And considering their powers as well as the fact that they are right next door to the Grand Necropolis, they sure as hell have a lot of ammo to work with.

[herkles]

@ Grimmdead 

 

We actually know why Meredith became such a hard-ass for mages. Her sister became an abomination, killed her family and then killed 70 more people. That devestated Meredith and changed her view forever. To quote the wiki. 

 

 

When Meredith was younger, her sister Amelia developed magical talents but her family decided to shield her from the Chantry, knowing that she couldn't survive in the Circle or face their rigorous tests. One day, Meredith's sister was possessed by a demon, turned into an abomination and killed the rest of her family save for Meredith, who survived. The Templars eventually slew her sister, but not before the Abomination killed 70 people. This experience led to Meredith's harsh view on magic and why she thinks mages must be treated as people with a curse.

 

As for why they went crazy, well red lyrium makes many people insane crazy people.

[Lulupab]

Both Orsino's and Meredith's background suggests they both wanted power and to rise above their station much sooner than blood magic or red lyrium corruption.

[Milan92]

Except Markus Pentaghast is still feeble and on the throne, with the Mortalitasi ruling through him. Even if Markus were to die, I don't see the Mortalitasi giving up that kind of power without a fight. And considering their powers as well as the fact that they are right next door to the Grand Necropolis, they sure as hell have a lot of ammo to work with.

 

Markus is actually dead and the Mortalitasi have been keeping him "alive" all this time.

 

Waht a twist.

[The Baconer]

Except Markus Pentaghast is still feeble and on the throne, with the Mortalitasi ruling through him.

 

Baseless rumors and slander.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Except Markus Pentaghast is still feeble and on the throne, with the Mortalitasi ruling through him. Even if Markus were to die, I don't see the Mortalitasi giving up that kind of power without a fight. And considering their powers as well as the fact that they are right next door to the Grand Necropolis, they sure as hell have a lot of ammo to work with.

They hold influence, but the Pentaghast Clan is still strong, and probably holds the majority of court. The mortalitasi can only maintain their influence for as long as Markus lives, since any new king would require the support of the court, not the mortalitasi.

[TheJediSaint]

Markus is actually dead and the Mortalitasi have been keeping him "alive" all this time.

 

Waht a twist.

Weekend at Bernies is not the best foundation for a government, I think.

[Yermogi]

I don't hate the idea of a Templar Order- it just went on too long with too much power and sort of ruined the original purpose for them. If the Order underwent some serious re-calibrations and adjustments, I think it would be fine to have them around.

[azarhal]

Except Markus Pentaghast is still feeble and on the throne, with the Mortalitasi ruling through him. Even if Markus were to die, I don't see the Mortalitasi giving up that kind of power without a fight. And considering their powers as well as the fact that they are right next door to the Grand Necropolis, they sure as hell have a lot of ammo to work with.

 

The Mortalitasi at court are related by blood to the king: they are Pentaghasts too. They also grew up at court, so they make excellent diplomats and magistrates too.

 

The more I hear about Nevarra, the more I wonder why the White Chantry or the Templars haven't tried to burn the place over. The Pentaghast clan must but extremely powerful to keep them away and stick to their ways of doing things.

[raging_monkey]

The Mortalitasi at court are related by blood to the king: they are Pentaghasts too. They also grew up at court, so they make excellent diplomats and magistrates too.
 
The more I hear about Nevarra, the more I wonder why the White Chantry or the Templars haven't tried to burn the place over. The Pentaghast clan must but extremely powerful to keep them away and stick to their ways of doing things.

the nevarrans are necromancers so the more they kill or are killed them stronger they get in theory. its kinda big stick deal

[The Baconer]

The more I hear about Nevarra, the more I wonder why the White Chantry or the Templars haven't tried to burn the place over. The Pentaghast clan must but extremely powerful to keep them away and stick to their ways of doing things.

 

Nevarra in general is quite powerful. As for the Chantry, who knows. They've made exceptions (or at least elected to ignore) due to cultural basis before, with Rivain. The Chantry is either not offended enough to call an Exalted March (Templars on their own wouldn't be able to achieve much, if anything) or they've decided that calling one isn't worth the cost.

 

the nevarrans are necromancers so the more they kill or are killed them stronger they get in theory. its kinda big stick deal

 

The Mortalitasi are not the kind of necromancers you speak of, nor are they murderers (at least in a capacity that would draw notice or accusation).

[Dark Helmet]

Aside from the whole "we crushed and still subjugate the elves" thing.

 

You say that like it's a bad thing.