1325 réponses à ce sujet

[Keroko]

What the commoners think is not relevant. they are commoners and hold no power and if the chantry says stfu. they will stfu. The nobles on the other hand are no ignorant commoner. some will try to lock the mages back up in the circles but for others it would be a good way to put the mages under firm control of the state. others will know the tevinters will be breathing down their necks if all mages suddenly perish and oppose the templars. Other may blame the chantry and templars for the mess. 

 

Do not underestimate the common folk. Especially not common folk who are frightened and have a target to vent their emotion on. I guarantee you that after a couple of Chantries have been reduced to ashes by angry mobs, the Chantry will be more amiable to listen. Regardless, all would look to the Chantry -and more importantly, the templars-  to put a collar around the mages again before they doom Thedas.

 

Not that mage freedom automatically would doom Thedas, but the mundanes believing it will is enough.

 

 

No... What happened in Kinloch Hold is NOTHING like the Breach. And Netherlands does have a high chance of flood, especially considering that most of the country lies below the sea's surface, hence the dykes. What you are asking on the other hand is for something like Saudi Arabia to build dykes EVERYWHERE to avoid floods.

Secondly you presume that something could have been done in the first place. The mages of Thedas has been studying the veil and the Fade for centuries, and they havn't come up with anything, so there is NOTHING to suggest that the Templars could've done anyhting. And you are still laying the blame on the Templars, when you actually, if you really persist in this ludicrous demand, should be blaming the mages for not having developed methods of prevention.

 

He has a point though, that smaller tears in the Veil do occur all over Thedas, bringing with them all sorts of trouble. Yet no mentionable move is made to understand the Veil and how to close the tears in it.

 

No, something as big as this has never happened before. But tears in the Veil itself itself are absurdly common in Thedas.

[The Elder King]

You really have to explain how kinloch hold is not like the breach. And if you restricting magic research because of your own bias to magic then the mages are not to blame.

Research of The Fade is allowed. Not to mention there's a magocracy in Thedas.

Kinlock hold isn't like The Breach because Uldred Summoned demons. He didn't tear The Veil. In DAI The Breach is opened first and Then demons popped out.
And Again small tears can be fixed or reinforced, but there's no known way to prevent a tear.

[The Elder King]

 
He has a point though, that smaller tears in the Veil do occur all over Thedas, bringing with them all sorts of trouble. Yet no mentionable move is made to understand the Veil and how to close the tears in it.
 
No, something as big as this has never happened before. But tears in the Veil itself itself are absurdly common in Thedas.

The Fade and The Veil are studied. Nobody found a solution to prevent The tears because there's no solution. You can only reinforce The Veil and close The tears with blood magic...which wouldn't work on the Breach.

[EmperorSahlertz]

You really have to explain how kinloch hold is not like the breach. And if you restricting magic research because of your own bias to magic then the mages are not to blame.

First of all there wasn't actually any rift in the Veil at Kinloch Hold. Second of all, even if there were, it would be like comparing pebbles to a boulder.

 

He has a point though, that smaller tears in the Veil do occur all over Thedas, bringing with them all sorts of trouble. Yet no mentionable move is made to understand the Veil and how to close the tears in it.

 

No, something as big as this has never happened before. But tears in the Veil itself itself are absurdly common in Thedas.

I assume that, since you so confidently state it, that you have absolute knowledge of what the mages of Thedas have been studyng through the thousands of years of their existance?

 

Tears in the veil are NOT common in Thedas. They are exceedingly rare. Even then though, the mages have still devised way of shutting them closed. There is no way of preventing them though, all you can do is damage control.

[Keroko]

The Fade and The Veil are studied. Nobody found a solution to prevent The tears because there's no solution. You can only reinforce The Veil and close The tears with blood magic...which wouldn't work on the Breach.

 

Everybody keeps saying there's no way to counter blood magic as well (one of the reasons its feared as much as it is), yet the Litany of Andrala shows that this is false.

 

If you see a problem, poke it a few times, try one or two things and then give up, then yes of course you're never going to find a solution. The idea of finding solutions is to not say "it's impossible" in the first place.

 

First of all there wasn't actually any rift in the Veil at Kinloch Hold. Second of all, even if there were, it would be like comparing pebbles to a boulder.

 

 

I assume that, since you so confidently state it, that you have absolute knowledge of what the mages of Thedas have been studyng through the thousands of years of their existance?

 

Tears in the veil are NOT common in Thedas. They are exceedingly rare. Even then though, the mages have still devised way of shutting them closed. There is no way of preventing them though, all you can do is damage control.

 

We were tripping over fade tears left, right and center in Ferelden alone. They're not rare. And the fact that they're not rare and people rather say "yeah, Veil's weak there. Better avoid it." rather than having mages there to study them and experiment on new techniques of closing them shows that they're not working on it very hard.

[The Elder King]

Everybody keeps saying there's no way to counter blood magic as well (one of the reasons its feared as much as it is), yet the Litany of Andrala shows that this is false.
 
If you see a problem, poke it a few times, try one or two things and then give up, then yes of course you're never going to find a solution. The idea of finding solutions is to not say "it's impossible" in the first place.
 

 
We were tripping over fade tears left, right and center in Ferelden alone. They're not rare. And the fact that they're not rare and people rather say "yeah, Veil's weak there. Better avoid it." rather than having mages there to study them and experiment on new techniques of closing them shows that they're not working on it very hard.

You're assuming people didn't try. The Fade, The Veil and its tears have been studied. It's possible that they did try to close or reinforce The Veil to prevent tears. It is possible there is no solution.

[Br3admax]

I've seen nothing to suggest these rifts even behave the same as normal Tears.

[Keroko]

You're assuming people didn't try. The Fade, The Veil and its tears have been studied. It's possible that they did try to close or reinforce The Veil to prevent tears. It is possible there is no solution.

 

No solution yet. There was also no counter to blood magic until the Litany of Andrala either. Or a way to reverse tranquillity until DAII and Asunder.

 

Once you give up though, that's when it really becomes impossible.

[The Elder King]

No solution yet. There was also no counter to blood magic until the Litany of Andrala either. Or a way to reverse tranquillity until DAII and Asunder.
 
Once you give up though, that's when it really becomes impossible.

We didn't know how much time it Went in the research that lead to The litany of Adralla. It might've been a Short one.
Tranquility was never studied, and The solution was found rather quickly.
We both have no clue on The Fade research. It is possible they researched a method for decades.
While you might be right, The opposite can be true as well.

[azarhal]

No solution yet. There was also no counter to blood magic until the Litany of Andrala either. 

 

The Litany only counters a subset of blood magic (mind control spells) and it's only able to disrupt the casting of those spells too.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Everybody keeps saying there's no way to counter blood magic as well (one of the reasons its feared as much as it is), yet the Litany of Andrala shows that this is false.

 

If you see a problem, poke it a few times, try one or two things and then give up, then yes of course you're never going to find a solution. The idea of finding solutions is to not say "it's impossible" in the first place.

The Litany does not counter blood magic, nor is it impossible to resist it in the first place. The problem is that you CANNOT cut a blood mage off from his resource, like you can normal mages, and as such there is no way to counter them.

 

And we are saying, that logically speaking, during the many millenia magical research has taken place, that SOMEONE at some time, tried the very thing you are glamouring for, and concluded that it could not be done.

 

We were tripping over fade tears left, right and center in Ferelden alone. They're not rare. And the fact that they're not rare and people rather say "yeah, Veil's weak there. Better avoid it." rather than having mages there to study them and experiment on new techniques of closing them shows that they're not working on it very hard.

 

We encountered Veil Tears THREE times in total. In the basement of Kinloch Hold, in the Blackmarsh, and at Warden's Keep. ALL these locations had unique circumstances connected to them. Veil Tears ARE rare. That is the cold hard lore saying so. Just because our warden is (un)lucky enough to run into them multiple times does not prove otherwise.

[azarhal]

 

 

We encountered Veil Tears THREE times in total. In the basement of Kinloch Hold, in the Blackmarsh, and at Warden's Keep. ALL these locations had unique circumstances connected to them. Veil Tears ARE rare. 

 

Full blown rift are rare. Veil thin or weak enough to let demons through seems to be quite commons in ruins, old places (with either lots of death or lots of magic), around red lyrium, etc. The Veil even thin at night naturally...

[Hellion Rex]

Full blown rift are rare. Veil thin or weak enough to let demons through seems to be quite commons in ruins, old places (with either lots of death or lots of magic), around red lyrium, etc. The Veil even thin at night naturally...

Except those three instances were actual tears. Nothing on the scale of the Breach, with the integrity of Veil actually breaking down, but still rifts.

[herkles]

 

The Litany does not counter blood magic, nor is it impossible to resist it in the first place. The problem is that you CANNOT cut a blood mage off from his resource, like you can normal mages, and as such there is no way to counter them.

 

And we are saying, that logically speaking, during the many millenia magical research has taken place, that SOMEONE at some time, tried the very thing you are glamouring for, and concluded that it could not be done.

 

So creating classes for mages/templars like defense against blood magic similar to the defense against the dark arts in harry potter would be impossible? 

[Hellion Rex]

So creating classes for mages/templars like defense against blood magic similar to the defense against the dark arts in harry potter would be impossible? 

Pretty much. Southern Thedas is still stumbling in the dark with blood magic and its capabilities.

[Br3admax]

Except those three instances were actual tears. Nothing on the scale of the Breach, with the integrity of Veil actually breaking down, but still rifts.

These don't behave the same. Otherwise the Inquisitor wouldn't be needed to seal them. 

[Hellion Rex]

These don't behave the same. Otherwise the Inquisitor wouldn't be needed to seal them. 

I'm aware. Both are still rifts.

[EmperorSahlertz]

So creating classes for mages/templars like defense against blood magic similar to the defense against the dark arts in harry potter would be impossible? 

More or less. Templars have an inherent magic resistance which also translates to all Blood Magic. Blood Magic is however just usually an order of magnitude more pwoerful than normal magic, so it is still harder to resist.

 

The best counter to a blood mage remains: Kill him.

[MisterJB]

Technically, I don't believe it was ever said the Veil at Warden's Keep was torn. Rather, it was weak.

It's possible demons can cross over if the Veil is weakened but a Breach is an entirely different problem alltogether.

[herkles]

More or less. Templars have an inherent magic resistance which also translates to all Blood Magic. Blood Magic is however just usually an order of magnitude more pwoerful than normal magic, so it is still harder to resist.

 

The best counter to a blood mage remains: Kill him.

 

true, but the litany was rather useful in countering Uldred's blood magic. Knowing more things like that could be helpful in a fight against a blood mage. 

[azarhal]

These don't behave the same. Otherwise the Inquisitor wouldn't be needed to seal them. 

 

The point of the game is that everyone else is too busy killing each others to deal with the problem. This gave me the impression that with sufficient manpower (aka templars/mages) others could also close the Breach and the rifts. Probably not as easily as waving their left hand around, but still possible.

[Hellion Rex]

true, but the litany was rather useful in countering Uldred's blood magic. Knowing more things like that could be helpful in a fight against a blood mage. 

The Litany only worked if it disrupted mind control as it was being cast. Once the spell is complete though, it's pretty useless.

[Hellion Rex]

The point of the game is that everyone else is too busy killing each others to deal with the problem. This gave me the impression that with sufficient manpower (aka templars/mages) others could also close the Breach and the rifts. Probably not as easily as waving their left hand around, but still possible.

Not necessarily. I think the mark is integral to sealing a Breach of this magnitude, especially one that is continuing to grow. I don't think magic, or anti magic, alone could do it, no matter how many mages and/or templars that you have.

[MisterJB]

The Litany only worked if it disrupted mind control as it was being cast. Once the spell is complete though, it's pretty useless.

Debatable. Remember how Lambert was able to dispell Cole's "invisibility" with it.

[Hellion Rex]

Double post