1325 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

The guy in the Anderfels?  He's not a king, is he?

Not for a lack of trying.

[Icy Magebane]

Not for a lack of trying.

But he doesn't hold the crown, which is what I said in my post... that's not really the same thing.

[AresKeith]

And has been confirmed as canon. 

 

I thought it was confirmed non-canon

[dragonflight288]

Maybe if there were less PC and party member exceptions and more made for random people in the setting, I'd agree with you...

 

Hmm.

 

1.Rylock in Awakening ignoring the Warden's Right of Conscription so she could capture Anders, who had permission from the King/Queen to join I might add.

 

2. Meredith ignoring the law of Kirkwall and the Chantry and becoming Defacto Viscount.

 

3.Tallis pretty much is a Qunari who acts in a way that is unQunari like ("I got your nose!") 

 

4. The Chantry giving Meredith's predecessor orders to interfere with Kirkwall's politics and Dumar's predecessor because their trade and tax policies were hurting Orlais,

 

5. Fiona bringing up mage autonomy at a College of Enchanters meeting meant to discuss the cure to tranquility (legally she had the right as Grand Enchanter, but that wasn't the purpose of the meeting,)

 

6. Divine Justinia V secretly researching alternatives to tranquility,

 

7. Lambert giving Evangeline clandestine orders that would destroy any evidence of the cure for tranquility despite it being authorized by his boss. 

 

8. Wynne living largely free of Circle restrictions.

 

9. The Exalted March on Northern Rivain. 

 

10. Tevinter saying blood magic is banned while openly practicing it. 

 

11. The Dalish belief in spirit magic being taboo, yet some Dalish work with spirits. (Zathrian and the Lady of the Forest, Merrill and Merethari on Sundermount, Felassian in TME)

 

12. Templars existing to protect mages from the world as well as protect the world from mages....many seem to have forgotten the part where they are supposed to protect mages. 

 

13. City elves technically have the right to live how they choose, but when they try to live outside of alienages the racism of humans make it near impossible, and some city elves even call these elves that leave "flat ears" because they apparently forgot what it means to be elven in the alienage. 

 

Some of these make more sense than others, but each has an example of rules to be followed, and clear examples of them not being followed. 

 

Don't know if this convinces you, but these are what I thought of off the top of my head. 

[dragonflight288]

I thought it was confirmed non-canon

 

Hmm, I'll look it up again. If I find the source, I'll post it. 

[Master Warder Z_]

I thought it was confirmed non-canon

It was.

[WarriorOfLight999]

Well, sorry I derailed the thread. (Clears throat)

 

I have respect for some of the Templars, like Greagoir, Ser Otto, and that poor fellow who tried to take on the Blood Mage coven in Denerim all by himself. There's also Ser Bryant, who seems like a reasonable individual.

[Icy Magebane]

Hmm.

Spoiler

1.Rylock in Awakening ignoring the Warden's Right of Conscription so she could capture Anders, who had permission from the King/Queen to join I might add.

 

2. Meredith ignoring the law of Kirkwall and the Chantry and becoming Defacto Viscount.

 

3.Tallis pretty much is a Qunari who acts in a way that is unQunari like ("I got your nose!") 

 

4. The Chantry giving Meredith's predecessor orders to interfere with Kirkwall's politics and Dumar's predecessor because their trade and tax policies were hurting Orlais,

 

5. Fiona bringing up mage autonomy at a College of Enchanters meeting meant to discuss the cure to tranquility (legally she had the right as Grand Enchanter, but that wasn't the purpose of the meeting,)

 

6. Divine Justinia V secretly researching alternatives to tranquility,

 

7. Lambert giving Evangeline clandestine orders that would destroy any evidence of the cure for tranquility despite it being authorized by his boss. 

 

8. Wynne living largely free of Circle restrictions.

 

9. The Exalted March on Northern Rivain. 

 

10. Tevinter saying blood magic is banned while openly practicing it. 

 

11. The Dalish belief in spirit magic being taboo, yet some Dalish work with spirits. (Zathrian and the Lady of the Forest, Merrill and Merethari on Sundermount, Felassian in TME)

 

12. Templars existing to protect mages from the world as well as protect the world from mages....many seem to have forgotten the part where they are supposed to protect mages. 

 

13. City elves technically have the right to live how they choose, but when they try to live outside of alienages the racism of humans make it near impossible, and some city elves even call these elves that leave "flat ears" because they apparently forgot what it means to be elven in the alienage. 

 

Some of these make more sense than others, but each has an example of rules to be followed, and clear examples of them not being followed. 

Don't know if this convinces you, but these are what I thought of off the top of my head. 

I think you may be missing my point... this list consists mostly of corrupt officials, rogue agents, party members, celebrity self-insert party members, or groups participating in covert illegal actions .  You even wrote down Meredith when you know full well that the lyrium idol was influencing her mind in Act 3... none of these are examples of exceptions to existing laws being made for the benefit of specific individuals or groups.  That is what I am objecting to, not individuals having their own opinions on matters or secretly acting on agendas that run contrary to the law... if everyone acted the same way and followed the rules in fiction, that would be boring as heck.  The problem I have with Dragon Age is that rules that have been in place for centuries tend to be ignored for the sake of the PC... and when I say that, I mean publicly ignored, not secretly... a Grey Warden monarch in Ferelden wasn't a secret and I'm not talking about a Warden Chancellor controlling Anora behind the scenes... That's a whole lot different from what's written on this list...

 

Well, sorry I derailed the thread. (Clears throat)

 

I have respect for some of the Templars, like Greagoir, Ser Otto, and that poor fellow who tried to take on the Blood Mage coven in Denerim all by himself. There's also Ser Bryant, who seems like a reasonable individual.

Actually, you're right... this tangent is kind of off-topic...

 

I will agree with you though that the Ferelden Templars tended to be pretty cool...

[dragonflight288]

Well, sorry I derailed the thread. (Clears throat)

 

I have respect for some of the Templars, like Greagoir, Ser Otto, and that poor fellow who tried to take on the Blood Mage coven in Denerim all by himself. There's also Ser Bryant, who seems like a reasonable individual.

 

Ser Emerick in kirkwall was also awesome. He starts out in Act 1 seeking out a mage who went missing from the Circle and was concerned for her safety, and started investigating a series of similar disappearing women. In Act 2, he had evidence of blood magic, Hawke's eye witness testimony of fighting demons and shades, a man fleeing the scene, and human bones, but no other templar and the city guard refused to offer him any help, even actively hindering the investigation. 

 

He seemed to be the only templar in all of Kirkwall who was actively trying to do his job to the full letter of what his duty is. 

[dragonflight288]

I think you may be missing my point... this list consists mostly of corrupt officials, rogue agents, party members, celebrity self-insert party members, or groups participating in covert illegal actions .  You even wrote down Meredith when you know full well that the lyrium idol was influencing her mind in Act 3... none of these are examples of exceptions to existing laws being made for the benefit of specific individuals or groups.  That is what I am objecting to, not individuals having their own opinions on matters or secretly acting on agendas that run contrary to the law... if everyone acted the same way and followed the rules in fiction, that would be boring as heck.  The problem I have with Dragon Age is that rules that have been in place for centuries tend to be ignored for the sake of the PC... and when I say that, I mean publicly ignored, not secretly... a Grey Warden monarch in Ferelden wasn't a secret and I'm not talking about a Warden Chancellor controlling Anora behind the scenes... That's a whole lot different from what's written on this list...

 

Actually, you're right... this tangent is kind of off-topic...

 

I will agree with you thought that the Ferelden Templars tended to be pretty cool...

 

The Chantry declaring the templars of kirkwall shirk the law and seize control of it before Meredith became Knight-Commander doesn't count?

 

But fair point. 

[Icy Magebane]

Ser Emerick in kirkwall was also awesome. He starts out in Act 1 seeking out a mage who went missing from the Circle and was concerned for her safety, and started investigating a series of similar disappearing women. In Act 2, he had evidence of blood magic, Hawke's eye witness testimony of fighting demons and shades, a man fleeing the scene, and human bones, but no other templar and the city guard refused to offer him any help, even actively hindering the investigation. 

 

He seemed to be the only templar in all of Kirkwall who was actively trying to do his job to the full letter of what his duty is. 

It's a real shame there was no way to prevent Ser Emeric's death...  he's easily one of my favorite DA2 chars, in spite of his brief role in the story...

[Icy Magebane]

The Chantry declaring the templars of kirkwall shirk the law and seize control of it before Meredith became Knight-Commander doesn't count?

 

But fair point. 

I was actually going to say that I'd never even heard of this, so I was going to go ahead and take your word for that... I never said the Chantry wasn't corrupt to an extent, but even so this sounds like something that would have been decided on behind closed doors...  I have no idea how they were going to justify seizing control of one of the city-states in the Free Marches though.  The other Marcher cities probably would not have let that happen, but I have no way of knowing for sure...

[dragonflight288]

I was actually going to say that I'd never even heard of this, so I was going to go ahead and take your word for that... I never said the Chantry wasn't corrupt to an extent, but even so this sounds like something that would have been decided on behind closed doors...  I have no idea how they were going to justify seizing control of one of the city-states in the Free Marches though.  The other Marcher cities probably would not have let that happen...

 

It's all in the lore.

 

Codex Entry: History of Kirkwall Chapter 4. 

 

 

The Threnhold family assumed its foreboding control of the city at the very onset of the Dragon Age, less than a week afterMaric Theirin retook the Ferelden throne from Orlais. Since this was followed by a civil war in Antiva (The much maligned "Three-Queens" era) and a coup in the Tevinter Imperium, many thought the Dragon Age would bring devastating change. Perhaps this was a hasty estimate, but it was true for Kirkwall. Viscount Chivalry Threnhold was a vicious thug who took power through a campaign of intimidation, and his son Perrin who was to succeed him in 9:14 Dragon Age was even worse.

Taxes were crippling and Perrin Threnhold used the ancient chains extending from "the Twins" standing at Kirkwall's harbour - Unused since the New Exalted Marches - to block sea traffic and charge exorbitant fees from Orlesian ships. The Empire threatened invasion following the closure of the waking sea passage, and for the first time, the chantry used thetemplars to pressure the viscount. Until that point, the templars had done nothing to counter the Threnholds even though, as the largest armed force in Kirkwall, they could have. Knight-Commander Guylian's only written comment was in a letter to Divine Beatrix III: "It is not our place to interfere in political affairs. We are here to safeguard the city against magic, not against itself." The Divine, as a friend to the emperor, clearly had other ideas.

In response, Viscount Perrin hired a mercenary army, forcing a showdown with the templars. They stormed theGallows and hung Knight-Commander Guylian, igniting a series of battles that ended with Perrin's arrest and the last of his family's rule. The templars were hailed as heroes, even though they wished to remain out of Kirkwall's affairs, it was now forced upon them. Knight-Commander Meredith appointed Lord Marlowe Dumar as the new viscount in 9:21 Dragon and she remains influential in the city.

—From Kirkwall: the City of Chains, by Brother Genitivi, 9:24 Dragon

[Icy Magebane]

Eh... this conversation is making me want to play as a Templar again... lol... I get the feeling I won't be able to make a final decision on my character until the game is released.

[WarriorOfLight999]

David Gaider has mentioned that originally, being a Templar in Origins meant you needed to deal with using lyrium, but it was cut from production. Alistair says that one actually doesn't need to use lyrium for Templar abilities to work, but there's clearly information that contradicts that. My Cousland Queen is in good with Orzammar, so instead of toeing the Chantry line, I can have some smuggled in. Nevertheless, my Hawke doesn't have as good connections, and I've no idea what position my Inquisitor will be in. I like having tools against demons and mages, but would rather not having the Chantry as my drugdealer, essentially. Thoughts?

[dragonflight288]

David Gaider has mentioned that originally, being a Templar in Origins meant you needed to deal with using lyrium, but it was cut from production. Alistair says that one actually doesn't need to use lyrium for Templar abilities to work, but there's clearly information that contradicts that. My Cousland Queen is in good with Orzammar, so instead of toeing the Chantry line, I can have some smuggled in. Nevertheless, my Hawke doesn't have as good connections, and I've no idea what position my Inquisitor will be in. I like having tools against demons and mages, but would rather not having the Chantry as my drugdealer, essentially. Thoughts?

 

The comic says Alistair started taking lyrium again to use templar talents. 

 

It's been retconned from what Alistair said originally. 

[Icy Magebane]

David Gaider has mentioned that originally, being a Templar in Origins meant you needed to deal with using lyrium, but it was cut from production. Alistair says that one actually doesn't need to use lyrium for Templar abilities to work, but there's clearly information that contradicts that. My Cousland Queen is in good with Orzammar, so instead of toeing the Chantry line, I can have some smuggled in. Nevertheless, my Hawke doesn't have as good connections, and I've no idea what position my Inquisitor will be in. I like having tools against demons and mages, but would rather not having the Chantry as my drugdealer, essentially. Thoughts?

What about the Carta?  Dwarven Inquisitors will have direct access to them since they come from the lyrium smuggling branch... I would assume that influential humans can also get access.  Hopefully this is shown in the game and not something we have to head canon.  I am hoping that lyrium use/addiction is mentioned in the story, since it is relevant to Cullen and potentially the Inquisitor and one other warrior (probably Cass or Blackwall).

[dragonflight288]

What about the Carta?  Dwarven Inquisitors will have direct access to them since they come from the lyrium smuggling branch... I would assume that influential humans can also get access.  Hopefully this is shown in the game and not something we have to head canon.  I am hoping that lyrium use/addiction is mentioned in the story, since it is relevant to Cullen and potentially the Inquisitor and one other warrior (probably Cass or Blackwall).

 

The Carta and the Chantry are probably the only reliable sources of lyrium. 

[lil yonce]

The Carta and the Chantry are probably the only reliable sources of lyrium. 

You can see in the newest demo the last twitch stream that the Carta is mining red lyrium and getting it to the templars, so the addiction/need for powers is brought up - at least overall.

[The Baconer]

The Carta and the Chantry are probably the only reliable sources of lyrium. 

 

Only the Carta now, since the Chantry no longer have any muscle to enforce whatever trade agreements they had.

 

Securing the flow of Lyrium will be the most important order of business for me.

[Icy Magebane]

Only the Carta now, since the Chantry no longer have any muscle to enforce whatever trade agreements they had.

 

Securing the flow of Lyrium will be the most important order of business for me.

You know, now that you mention it, this has to be a part of the plot... both the mages and Templars need a reliable supply of lyrium... Hopefully the Cadash Inquisitor has some kind of diplomacy or negotiation bonus if the Carta is involved in this hypothetical quest line.  This would be a good opportunity to have the PC's race play a role in the story...

[WarriorOfLight999]

Indeed. If my Queen can gain a monopoly on the lyrium trade, Ferelden can rake in on that cash. Think of all you can do with coffers full of gold, the Chantry weakened! It would put Ferelden up as a very influential power in the south, and with our enemy Orlais so crippled from the Rift, there can be a good span of peace, at least for a few decades.

[dragonflight288]

Indeed. If my Queen can gain a monopoly on the lyrium trade, Ferelden can rake in on that cash. Think of all you can do with coffers full of gold, the Chantry weakened! It would put Ferelden up as a very influential power in the south, and with our enemy Orlais so crippled from the Rift, there can be a good span of peace, at least for a few decades.

 

Or, imagine if the elves of the Dales, so close to the Frostback Mountains, got that trade agreement through the carta? The Chantry and the templars would either attack the elves to get the lyrium, or they would be forced to submit to the elves wishes if they wanted it.

 

That would be ironic. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Only the Carta now, since the Chantry no longer have any muscle to enforce whatever trade agreements they had.

 

Securing the flow of Lyrium will be the most important order of business for me.

Not all the Templars and Seekers left the Chantry with Lambert. So they still have some pull. Enough to bring the sides of the Mage-Templar War to the peace table for example. 

[In Exile]

Ser Emerick in kirkwall was also awesome. He starts out in Act 1 seeking out a mage who went missing from the Circle and was concerned for her safety, and started investigating a series of similar disappearing women. In Act 2, he had evidence of blood magic, Hawke's eye witness testimony of fighting demons and shades, a man fleeing the scene, and human bones, but no other templar and the city guard refused to offer him any help, even actively hindering the investigation. 

 

He seemed to be the only templar in all of Kirkwall who was actively trying to do his job to the full letter of what his duty is. 

 

As far as we know, he also didn't beat, rape or otherwise abuse anyone, so he's competent and a decent person. Like some weird mix of Thrask and... well... some tempar who is competent.