1325 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

I was expecting a rage comment given that I countered every single thing you threw at me. One after another and every time you changed the topic to another mechanic. Templar spec in DA2 does not provide anything against blood magic and spirit magic which is the majority of magical attacks in the game, it only helps the warrior to become a target dummy for its allies, and finally its severely outclassed by other warrior specs. Everyone can enjoy their game however they like but nothing can change the fact that Templar spec remains as one of the least useful warrior trees, as if warrior was not weak enough.  

You havn't coutnered ****.... All you've manged to do is say: "Hurr durr, this spec deals more damage, and damage is always superior". And that pretty much sums up your entire arguement. And I've called you on that bullshit. Since warrior dmg is ALWAYS inferior to either rogue or mage damage, which means that if you are so concerned with dealing damage, you shouldn't be speccing a warrior for damage to begin with.

Secondly the Templar spec DOES provide protection to Spirit Magic and Blood Magic, since it provides MAGIC RESISTANCE, which isn't reuced by any of the spell you are so fond of listing. Those spell removes DAMAGE REDUCTION, which is an entirely different mechanic to magic resistance. And even though Blood Magic deals physical damage, it STILL count as MAGIC, which means it is reduced by Magic resistance.

 

So no. You havn't proven ANYTHING. Other than you are a person who prefers big numbers on your screen from all your characters. Well done.

 

You can never kill dozens of enemies in a blink with anything BUT living bomb and this spell is not for everyone and clearly you are unable to utilize it. ALL CC in the game are 100% versus normal enemies so Templar is no snowflake, even if its not in the spell description all elite enemies can resist everything. But since other Warrior CCs have lesser cooldown you can try again sooner so therefore its more effective.

 

 

 

Silence is a 100% against ALL enemies, not just normal, so yes, Templars ARE in fact unique in that regard. And fun fact, your Templar warrior can have Silence AND the rest of the Warrior CC (Nooooo reaallly??), meaning they will be CC powerhouses, compared to your pathetic hurr durr dps wannabe warrior.

 

And yes Walking Bomb CAN be effective. But the reward doesn't outweigh the risk. Far easier is it, to simply use the safe AoEs and control the battlefield, instead of constantly quickloading to get lucky with your Walking Bomb.

 

 

This is a single player game and people have finished it without spending a single attribute point so in the end it comes to flavor, but the fact remains some builds and some characters are better than others. I can only hope that this will not be repeated in DA:I.

SOME may find some builds better than others, other will  find other builds better. That YOU prefer one kind of build, does NOT make that build objectively better. It only makes that build better for YOU. How can that be such a ****** hard concept to fathom?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Huff or drink, whatever I'm not into the idea of constantly ingesting lyrium to be able to use templar abilities.

They don't constantly drink Lyrium potions, it is highly regulated, and they don't have to be addicted to the stuff....

[john-in-france]

I am aware of that Lulupab. The wiki mentions that Battlemages in particular find lyrium potions to be less and less effective over time, and that they suffer mutations eventually.

 

It will be interesting to see how red lyrium effects mages...maybe for them it is ok, and just a problem for Templar. We'll see.

[raging_monkey]

I am aware of that Lulupab. The wiki mentions that Battlemages in particular find lyrium potions to be less and less effective over time, and that they suffer mutations eventually.
 
It will be interesting to see how red lyrium effects mages...maybe for them it is ok, and just a problem for Templar. We'll see.

i guess they become a super sayain 3 mage but with severe mutations

[Lulupab]

You havn't coutnered ****.... All you've manged to do is say: "Hurr durr, this spec deals more damage, and damage is always superior". And that pretty much sums up your entire arguement. And I've called you on that bullshit. Since warrior dmg is ALWAYS inferior to either rogue or mage damage, which means that if you are so concerned with dealing damage, you shouldn't be speccing a warrior for damage to begin with.
Secondly the Templar spec DOES provide protection to Spirit Magic and Blood Magic, since it provides MAGIC RESISTANCE, which isn't reuced by any of the spell you are so fond of listing. Those spell removes DAMAGE REDUCTION, which is an entirely different mechanic to magic resistance. And even though Blood Magic deals physical damage, it STILL count as MAGIC, which means it is reduced by Magic resistance.
 
So no. You havn't proven ANYTHING. Other than you are a person who prefers big numbers on your screen from all your characters. Well done.
 

 
 
 

Silence is a 100% against ALL enemies, not just normal, so yes, Templars ARE in fact unique in that regard. And fun fact, your Templar warrior can have Silence AND the rest of the Warrior CC (Nooooo reaallly??), meaning they will be CC powerhouses, compared to your pathetic hurr durr dps wannabe warrior.
 
And yes Walking Bomb CAN be effective. But the reward doesn't outweigh the risk. Far easier is it, to simply use the safe AoEs and control the battlefield, instead of constantly quickloading to get lucky with your Walking Bomb.
 
 

SOME may find some builds better than others, other will  find other builds better. That YOU prefer one kind of build, does NOT make that build objectively better. It only makes that build better for YOU. How can that be such a ****** hard concept to fathom?

 
Blood magic spells and fist of the maker in force mage are physical damage, you need to get your facts straight. That was DAO this is DA2, the mechanic is different in DA2. Magic resistance DOES NOT affect the named magic spells, Physical damage deals with armor, there is no exception. I have a bridge to sell you if you think otherwise. Countered
 
No there is no risk or no reload when dealing with friendly fire, if you know what you're doing instead of casting the spell like a scrub. Anders, Merril, Varric, You as warrior. if you didn't notice already 3 other members are ranged and perfectly safe from living bomb detonation area and only you are melee and in its area and you are protected by barrier, 2 mages can provided it. Problem solved. NO RISK, PLENTY REWARDS. Oh and they are also safe from wariror's friendly fire. Countered 
 
I don't need to prove this to you, anyone who has played Berserker/Reaver/vanguard knows that's its perfectly capable of rivaling other classes in terms of damage. But since you announced it that because of friendly fire you never played this spec, you cannot claim warrior cannot deal as much as damage as other classes when you never tried this build, its actually more effective on higher difficulties because it ignores so much defense and enemies have too much of it in nightmare. Countered

MANY enemies and the one who would matter if silenced are outright immune to silence as stated in prima guide such as: Desire demon and shades, Pride demons, Undead, All Commanders including but not limited to, Kirkwall units, Qunari, mercenaries and mage bosses such as Hadriana (the ones who channel aura for their allies), Rage demons, Revenants, All other templars, and Tevinter mages (the npc name is Tevinter slaver). I find it Immensely satisfying Tevinter mages are immune to silence. You can only silence squishy mages who happen to die very quickly. No need to silence someone when their demise is few swings away.

Countered

Also I am done. You are not even equipped to participate in gameplay mechanics discussion. That "blood magic is affected by magic resistance" gave you away pretty quickly. It was the case in DAO, the saw it was retarded so they fixed it. Again stated in prima guide.

[Lulupab]

I am aware of that Lulupab. The wiki mentions that Battlemages in particular find lyrium potions to be less and less effective over time, and that they suffer mutations eventually.

 

It will be interesting to see how red lyrium effects mages...maybe for them it is ok, and just a problem for Templar. We'll see.

 

If you mean refined red Lyrium that is. Raw blue lyrium is quite deadly for mages, and I suspect raw red lyrium is even worse. However mages actually have affinity to blue refined Lyrium, so they might be more resistant to refined red lyrium but I kinda doubt it.

[Sir DeLoria]

The only good templar is a dead templar.

Lol, so I assume you'd support the killing of Carver, Evangeline, Cullen and Greagoire? Why not the blind Ser Otto or Alistair while we're already at it?

Templars are made by men, they can be unmade.

Except that their talents can be learned by literally anyone, every nation on Thedas has them (or a similar institution) and that except for radical player characters no one in Thedas seems to oppose their existence.

[Lulupab]

The named Templars are ready to show middle finger to order and all of its values when they see the order is crossing the line. You can't kill Carver because he literally says FU to all Templars and joins you against them, so there is no reason to. The Templar order needs a good spanking and change of rules to be honest, its encouraging zealotry by very definition.

[SgtSteel91]

They don't constantly drink Lyrium potions, it is highly regulated, and they don't have to be addicted to the stuff....

 

But you would have to keep ingesting lyrium on a regular basis to keep being able to use Templar abilities, right?

 

I don't like that part.

[Lumix19]

The named Templars are ready to show middle finger to order and all of its values when they see the order is crossing the line. You can't kill Carver because he literally says FU to all Templars and joins you against them, so there is no reason to. The Templar order needs a good spanking and change of rules to be honest, its encouraging zealotry by very definition.

Indeed. What irritates me most is that they know next to nothing about magic yet are allowed to govern and watch over it. It boggles the mind.

[raging_monkey]

Indeed. What irritates me most is that they know next to nothing about magic yet are allowed to govern and watch over it. It boggles the mind.

agreed would you let a friend do a operation on you if he's not a doctor.

Its a bad plot device imo

[Star fury]

Lol, so I assume you'd support the killing of Carver, Evangeline, Cullen and Greagoire? Why not the blind Ser Otto or Alistair while we're already at it?


Except that their talents can be learned by literally anyone, every nation on Thedas has them (or a similar institution) and that except for radical player characters no one in Thedas seems to oppose their existence.

Carver? Yes, yes, and yes! Alistair and Cullen are former templars, they severed ties with the order. You see, good people tend to leave the Templars.

 

 

 

Indeed. What irritates me most is that they know next to nothing about magic yet are allowed to govern and watch over it. It boggles the mind.

You still need to balance and counter magic in a proper fantasy. If there is no counter for mages, they tend to rule the world. That's why I really like the Chorae system in the Second Apocalypse series by Scott Bakker. Mages are powerful in Earwa, but mundanes with a chora are immune to magic and can easily kill any mage with it. Nice system of checks and balances is invaluable in fantasy as it is in politics.

[KoorahUK]

agreed would you let a friend do a operation on you if he's not a doctor.

Its a bad plot device imo

Bad analogy. Templars are not trying to do magic, nor do they need to understand it. They need to be aware of the danger signs of demonic possession and the practice of Blood Magic. That is what are trained to recognise, thats what they guard against and must be vigilant for.

 

You don't need to be a vet to know a dog is rabid.

 

[john-in-france]

Lamberts Templar are a big problem, but so is mage supremacy, the war is hitting common people. That is why my Trevelyan character was at the Peace conference...

 

I'm with Cullen on:

'That's not what the order stands for Knight-Commander!'

 

She walked away from the Templar order as controlled by Lambert, not the ideals of the Templar as protectors. If she never became inquisitor she'd have joined Cullens Templar in the Inquisition.

 

Yes I RP my characters, if you don't that's fine.

 

Edited for auto-correct typo.

[SgtSteel91]

You 'Role Play Game' your characters?

 

Just kidding, but that's alright. The Trevelyan Inquisitor I'm going to be playing as doesn't believe in the Maker and hates the idea of working for the Chantry or the Templars. But she loves her family so she's at the Peace Conference to help them.

[raging_monkey]

Bad analogy. Templars are not trying to do magic, nor do they need to understand it. They need to be aware of the danger signs of demonic possession and the practice of Blood Magic. That is what are trained to recognise, thats what they guard against and must be vigilant for.
 
You don't need to be a vet to know a dog is rabid.

attempted to be funny lol but you know what i mean lol

Hows this; are you a police officer if you have a full knowledge of law and police procedure but not taken the police exam? Lol

[Icy Magebane]

I don't think Templars need any deep understanding of magic to do their jobs... most of them just stand around inside the Circles waiting for a mage to make a wrong move or turn into an abomination.  Besides being able to recognize blood magic, follow the trail of a phylactery, and utilize their own pseudo-magical skills, what else do they really need to know?

[raging_monkey]

I don't think Templars need any deep understanding of magic to do their jobs... most of them just stand around inside the Circles waiting for a mage to make a wrong move or turn into an abomination.  Besides being able to recognize blood magic, follow the trail of a phylactery, and utilize their own pseudo-magical skills, what else do they really need to know?

a lesson in ethics but they do fine overall imo:)

[Icy Magebane]

a lesson in ethics but they do fine overall imo:)

 

I guess I should have just quoted this post, but this is what I was referring to...

Indeed. What irritates me most is that they know next to nothing about magic yet are allowed to govern and watch over it. It boggles the mind.

 

Ethics is a separate issue... I'm not against them having more oversight so that they don't abuse their authority, I just don't understand how being unable to control magic and enter the Fade makes them unqualified for their jobs.  They seem to have done just fine for about a thousand years...

[lil yonce]

But they don't exactly have any authority to begin with. The circles are supposed to be autonomous. They aren't because of the templars says WoT. 

 

The templars assumed authority over the Circle, abused that authority, and when the Circle seceded itself from the Chantry to get away from them, the templars declared war on the Circle, seceding themselves to do so. In a peace deal, why would the mages give any power whatsoever to the templars? They never actually had any to begin, so why give it to them now?

[raging_monkey]

But they don't exactly have any authority to begin with. The circles are supposed to be autonomous. They aren't because of the templars says WoT. 
 
The templars assumed authority over the Circle, abused that authority, and when the Circle seceded itself from the Chantry to get away from them, the templars declared war on the Circle, seceding themselves to do so. In a peace deal, why would the mages give any power whatsoever to the templars? They never actually had any to begin, so why give it to them now?

the og inquisition was formed to hunt magi and hereatics. And when they joined the chantry they were the defacto police on magical affairs. Now when the magi first rebelled(peacefully) the made the accord. In a way magi agreed to be watched and guarded the rules came later after mutual agreement.

Plus its a pack issue; mundanes outnumber magi so whoever has more people with the same belief they make the rules.

[lil yonce]

the og inquisition was formed to hunt magi and hereatics. And when they joined the chantry they were the defacto police on magical affairs. Now when the magi first rebelled(peacefully) the made the accord. In a way magi agreed to be watched and guarded the rules came later after mutual agreement.

Plus its a pack issue; mundanes outnumber magi so whoever has more people with the same belief they make the rules.

To agree to templars guards is one things, but templar governance is another. The circle is supposed to be able to govern itself and it can't because  of the templars. That's a problem, that's the whole problem, really, and I don't see the circle working in a new deal without mages controlling their own towers as they're supposed to. WoT says specifically that its the "heavy templar presence" in circles that prevents them from being autonomous, so the most obvious solution to me is to scale back the templar presence in the towers in both numbers and authority.

[KoorahUK]

To agree to templars guards is one things, but templar governance is another. The circle is supposed to be able to govern itself and it can't because of the templars. That's a problem, that's the whole problem, really, and I don't see the circle working in a new deal without mages controlling their own towers as they're supposed to. WoT says specifically that its the "heavy templars presence" in circles that prevents them from being autonomous, so the most obvious solution to me is to scale back the templar presence in the towers in both numbers and authority.

Thats the road to anullment right there. Templars keep mages safe by weeding out those unable to handle to temptations of the fade or the lure of forbidden magic. Scale back that supervision and its just a matter of time before abominations run wild.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I just noticed this and figured I'd comment on it...  The Chantry isn't making anybody an addict.  Not only is the Order a voluntary organization, lyrium use is an essential part of the Templar training.  I suppose that the Chantry could instead hire normal soldiers to fill the same role, but they would not be anywhere near as effective as men and women with the power to disrupt spells, resist magic, and silence or stun mages.  Without these abilities, Templar deaths would increase, as would civilian deaths caused by abominations and hostile mages.  I'm not even sure if they would be able to keep the mages inside the Circles without being able to nullify their powers... even if they did manage to somehow fill the Circles, it's likely that they would face frequent uprisings if the Templars had no special abilities.  Lyrium addiction is an unfortunate side effect of their profession, but the Templars serve a necessary and virtually irreplaceable role.  There is simply no reasonable alternative to combating the dangers posed by abominations and rogue mages.  Those who are willing to submit themselves to the detrimental effects of lyrium for the greater good should be praised for their sacrifice, not shunned because of the health problems they will ultimately face due to prolonged use.

They are supplying people an addictive substance and then hold control over said substance to control those people because that substance is addictive. So yes, they are making people addicts the same way a drug dealer does. 

Except that dangerous mages who use blood magic aren't affected by those abilities. It's one reason they use blood magic in the first place. 

And yes you could. Wards that nullify all magic within an area is in the lore. So build a large one and then put the Circle within it and voila, you've nullified an entire Circle worth of mages. 

 

 

Lyrium addiction has been confirmed as not being implemented in game, so neither Mages nor Templar will suffer withdrawal symptoms (yes mages are effected too).

Source? 

[Bobalow]

It doesn't matter what the Templars could do differently as long as they win.