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Dorian


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#126
Melca36

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Because:
lesbian=sexy
Gay male=gross corruption of youth and morals

Though to be honest, I haven't heard any rampage about Dorian. It also could be that haters who wanted to romance Dorian and can't. Haha

 

While that is partially true.  There are MANY straight females who fetishize M/M characters.   

 

Dorian seems to be getting a lot of broad appeal from what I've been reading.


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#127
andar91

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But its not that their job to do that. I am pretty sure most devs just want to make good games/provide for their family.Not worrying about the progressive movement which is sweeping nerd culture, where people keep crying  misogyny/homephobia

 

"Good games."

 

For many people, myself included, part of that means helping to end problems like you mentioned. Other things matter too, of course. I play lots of games and love them despite their flaws (like, say, Soul Calibur's character design for most of its women). That doesn't mean those flaws don't matter/have no effect.

 

Geee, I wonder where someone would get the idea that this is now a "straight males are bad" thread. Nothing like being referred to as the lowest common denominator to build support.

 

I did not mean that that somehow made them bad, just that it made them safe. They have most social power so placing them in the slot of primary market is safe. Try to be inclusive at all and be accused of pandering to a minority. I don't think straight white guys are all bad; I think they are very privileged (so am I, except for my sexuality - I'm a white guy), and that privilege is unfair.



#128
BadgerladDK

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Has there been lesbian character before? I have only played Dragon Age and Mass Effect series and there hasn't been one.

 

EDIT: Oh, okay there is Juhani, the girl with guys name ^^;

 

Well, there was Traynor too, although I guess because she and Cortez weren't technically companions, it's not quite the same.



#129
Flog the Undying

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Omg I made a spelling mistake because I type fast, I HAVE DISHONORED MY FAMILY NAME!!!!! Thank you for helping me see the errors of my ways

 

You're welcome.

 

You've ignored my main point, which I shouldn't find utterly surprising. Also, I'd still like you to quote anyone in this thread saying that all straight people are intolerant.



#130
Flog the Undying

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EDIT: Double post. 



#131
daveliam

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Quick question: Is Dorian the first "full blown" gay companion Bioware has done so far?

 

As has been answered, yep.  The first gay male companion.

 

Cool. Makes him kind of a historic character then.

 

Yep again.  Very cool.  This is kind of why some of us find him to be such a big deal.  Just imagine having been a straight male Bioware fan since BG and having to wait over 15 years until finally getting to have another straight male companion in a game.  Could you imagine that?  That's what I've been dealing with.  There have been a few bisexual guys and, while I appreciate that they are in the games, it's not quite the same as having a gay guy actually kick some ass beside my gay PC.  It's also why I get a little sad when people make dismissive comments about:  "Dorian is being shoved in our faces with his sexuality" and "I couldn't care less that Dorian is gay, so what?"  It is a big deal that he's gay and that should be celebrated by everyone.  It's why I really appreciated your comment.  Even a little side comment like, "Cool!" is nice to see.

 

Ahh. Didn't know she was gay. Very cool character, though.

 

She's a lesbian but there was a glitch in the game originally that allowed male Revans to access to her romance content which led to false idea that she was bisexual.  Add to that the fact that they only hinted at her relationship with Belaya and that her romance content was minimal (at best), and it's not surprising that people keep forgetting that she was actually the first gay companion.


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#132
ghostzodd

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You're welcome.

 

You've ignored my main point, which I shouldn't find utterly surprising. Also, I'd still like you to quote anyone in this thread saying that all straight people are intolerant.

 

you double posted this, you have also dishonored your family name, silly rabbit tricks are for kids



#133
Panda

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There are right ways and wrong ways about going about this. Labeling a game developers as racist, homophobic, sexist ect for not having enough minorities in their games is the wrong way, it's a dirty tactic. Showing devs that you want games to be more diverse and that you would buy those games is the right way to go. 

 

The DA series is a good case study to show that LGBT content in games can be profitable.

 

True, there is no need to attack anyone on the issue.

 

Bioware doesn't really have problem of not having diversity (at least in my point of view) so this is going quite off-topic ^^

 

But uh I guess it's still on topic since there is some players who don't want to change (meaning more diverse characters in the game) and I guess this is why there is outrage of characters like Dorian and saying they are pandering people (who aren't them).


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#134
SardaukarElite

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But its not that their job to do that. I am pretty sure most devs just want to make good games/provide for their family.Not worrying about the progressive movement which is sweeping nerd culture, where people keep crying  misogyny/homephobia

 

Is it your job to tell game designers what their job is? No, but for some reason you have decided to spread your opinions and world views around. I assume game desiners are similar.

 

Every game says something, they might as well use their platform to try and say something worthwhile.


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#135
ghostzodd

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Is it your job to tell game designers what their job is? No, but for some reason you have decided to spread your opinions and world views around. I assume game desiners are similar.

 

Every game says something, they might as well use their platform to try and say something worthwhile.

 

Wait a second is this like job inception, A job within a job whoa! THATS MIND BLOWING!!!



#136
Panda

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Well, there was Traynor too, although I guess because she and Cortez weren't technically companions, it's not quite the same.

 

Yep, somehow people just want to point out companion part. There has been gay NPC's around DAO and DA2 as well though it's not very obvious (like Saemus and Wade & Herren).



#137
andar91

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There are right ways and wrong ways about going about this. Labeling a game developers as racist, homophobic, sexist ect for not having enough minorities in their games is the wrong way, it's a dirty tactic. Showing devs that you want games to be more diverse and that you would buy those games is the right way to go. 

 

The DA series is a good case study to show that LGBT content in games can be profitable.

 

But that's not really what's happening here.

 

Game developer companies are made up of lots of different people; just because one or two of them are racist, for instance, doesn't necessarily mean the whole company is.

 

We're talking about what they put out - their product - actually does/portrays. There is no magical number or place where a game (or any media) becomes perfect, but we can still try to do better. You can be the most inclusive person in the world, but if you continually put out, let's say, a comic that does nothing to challenge social problems, then it's...not doing anything to challenge those problems.



#138
Melca36

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Or indeed how was Cortez even slightly 'flamboyant'.

 

Cortez was NOT flamboyant.    My brother is gay and prefered mShep/Cortez to mSHep/Kaidan.   I rolled a male a shep and ended up agreeing. :)  The romance was much more real and natural than it was with Kaidan.



#139
Flog the Undying

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you double posted this, you have also dishonored your family name, silly rabbit tricks are for kids

 

I know, my family will be ashamed. :(


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#140
Flog the Undying

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Cortez was NOT flamboyant.    My brother is gay and prefered mShep/Cortez to mSHep/Kaidan.   I rolled a male a shep and ended up agreeing. :)  The romance was much more real and natural than it was with Kaidan.

 

Blashphemy!
 

I kid, I'm just a pretty avid Mshenkwoah supporter :P



#141
Panda

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While that is partially true.  There are MANY straight females who fetishize M/M characters.   

 

Dorian seems to be getting a lot of broad appeal from what I've been reading.

 

Well the difference seems to be that straight female players don't have problem with lesbian characters in the game (again in general).



#142
xkg

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People are idiots.

 

 

OMG. You can't live it just like that. You need to clarify it further, what's on your mind.

 

All people are idiots - False.

Most people are idiots - probably an opinion, hard to judge.

Some people are idiots - very obvious and very true.

Only a few people are idiots - False. There are more that only a few.

There are no people that are idiots - very false.

 

Yeah ... haha just joking, now. Wanted to bring some humor to this thread.

 

And now

Abe-Simpson-walking-in-and-out-the-.gif


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#143
BadgerladDK

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Yep, somehow people just want to point out companion part. There has been gay NPC's around DAO and DA2 as well though it's not very obvious (like Saemus and Wade & Herren).

 

Wait a sec... People didn't think Wade and Herren were obviously gay? I'm straight as an arrow and even *my* gaydar was set off from a mile away there :P


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#144
mikeymoonshine

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Okay, need to break this apart a bit. It is true that being a feminine guy or butch lesbian and so on is not wrong or a problem, and those types of characters need representation. However, it's dangerous to start claiming that they get more abuse than others; it would probably be more accurate to say that they receive abuse that others don't get, but that doesn't mean a feminine lesbian, for instance, doesn't suffer from homophobia or sexism.

 

Also, I'll quote Chimamanda Adichie: "The problem with a stereotype is not that it is wrong, but that it is incomplete." Those stereotypes aren't wrong, per se, but there's something very wrong if that's the majority of what we're getting all of the time. We need balance and variety is basically what I'm saying.

 

 

But it's very easy to find stereotypes if you look for them and gay people that are "stereotypical" really are getting a tremendous amount of hate thrown their way even within the lgbt community, especially effeminate gay men. 

 

Why is how "steriotypical" Dorian is the most important thing about him for some people? Criticizing his interest in fashion as stereotypical for example, when most noble's outside of Ferelden probably have a similar interest in fashion. So you either avoid a stereotype for the sake of avoiding a stereotype or you create a realistic character. 

 

Butch, hairy, masculine gay guy is also a stereotype and it actually is used a lot in the media. So I don't think making him like Blackwall would actually have been helpful. 


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#145
Melca36

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Well the difference seems to be that straight female players don't have problem with lesbian characters in the game (again in general).

 

Actually Ive seen some straight female gamers being awfully rude to fans of femHawke/Merill and femHawke/Isabela.  

 

Fans of F/F characters get shafted on Tumblr too.     


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#146
daveliam

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Yep, somehow people just want to point out companion part. There has been gay NPC's around DAO and DA2 as well though it's not very obvious (like Saemus and Wade & Herren).

 

I definitely make the distinction between companions and NPCs.  It's great to see LGBT representation in any form, but it's even better to have them play a major role and be able to accompany you around.  It normalizes LGBT characters and shows that there's no reason why they can't be one of the heroes and not just a sex worker or shop keeper.

 

Cortez was NOT flamboyant.    My brother is gay and prefered mShep/Cortez to mSHep/Kaidan.   I rolled a male a shep and ended up agreeing. :)  The romance was much more real and natural than it was with Kaidan.

 

I think it's silly to say that any of the gay characters (Juhani, Steve, or Samantha) have been stereotypes.  I also see very little evidence that Dorian or Sera will be stereotypes as well.

 

On a different note, I'd really appreciate it if the snippy comments back and forth could stop so that the thread doesn't get shut down.  Some people are having really appropriate conversations and I'd hate to see them shut down because some people are just insulting each other over silly nonsense.



#147
Panda

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Wait a sec... People didn't think Wade and Herren were obviously gay? I'm straight as an arrow and even *my* gaydar was set off from a mile away there :P

 

Well.. :blush:



#148
Panda

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Actually Ive seen some straight female gamers being awfully rude to fans of femHawke/Merill and femHawke/Isabela.  

 

Fans of F/F characters get shafted on Tumblr too.     

 

Oh this is new to me. I haven't seen this kind of behaviour from female gamers. Well that's sad then : /



#149
BloodyTalon

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For some reason this thread is reminding me of some research that was done on stright men.

But its a number of reasons he is getting flak you can spin a wheel with all the different reasons on it and no matter which spot it lands on, would be a reason for someone.

But in today's world lesbians and bisexual women are more accepted then gay and bixsexual men, and media views impact people a lot more then they think atr times.

But I don't feel he is being shoved in anyone faces, is defining thing doesn't seem to be his sexuality but the fact he isn't an evil guy given where he is from and wants to help save the world.

Never really understand why some take issues with others sexual prefs and so on, might has well take issues with the rain.



#150
mikeymoonshine

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True, there is no need to attack anyone on the issue.

 

Bioware doesn't really have problem of not having diversity (at least in my point of view) so this is going quite off-topic ^^

 

But uh I guess it's still on topic since there is some players who don't want to change (meaning more diverse characters in the game) and I guess this is why there is outrage of characters like Dorian and saying they are pandering people (who aren't them).

 

I was giving you examples of how legitimate and useful arguments for diversity in games can actually be made. I wasn't really talking about anyone here. Bioware is a good enough example to refute the idea that "gamers" wouldn't buy games with more diverse characters. 


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