97 réponses à ce sujet

[wcholcombe]

It got retconned when he developed a following and they decided they wanted him in DA2 for fanservice. The slides were canon until they became an impediment to future design options, at which point they were reduced to hearsay so they could be ignored.

Actually, there was a post by Gaider on the old BSN shortly after people started beating the games, not to take the slides to literally as they are just rumor and he would not count on them carrying over.

 

They were just meant to tie things up with the characters if they didn't make more games.

[Xilizhra]

Was it fanservice when Oghren, Leliana, or Anders came back regardless of their endings? Or do you like those characters better so it's not fanservice?

In the former case, yes, and Gaider regrets that. In the latter two, they had other plot purposes; if Anders had been fanservice, they wouldn't have had his character develop in the way it did.

[wcholcombe]

In the former case, yes, and Gaider regrets that. In the latter two, they had other plot purposes; if Anders had been fanservice, they wouldn't have had his character develop in the way it did.

Ohgren was probably fanservice yes. But Lelianna played an actual role that fit her character.  Gaider also regrets the fanservice of allowing you to bring your US warden back to life for DAA.

 

Anders wasn't originally being developed to become Anders BTW, early on it was a different character that they were going to have blow up the chantry.

[pengwin21]

In the former case, yes, and Gaider regrets that. In the latter two, they had other plot purposes; if Anders had been fanservice, they wouldn't have had his character develop in the way it did.

 

I would say that Cullen isn't fanservice as well as he seems to have a plot purpose. Yes, he could have been replaced by another Templar, but Justice could have possessed another apostate and Leliana could be replaced by someone with a similar background.

 

But most people tend to go "didn't like character= that character returning is fan service".

[frylock23]

The only character I have ever thought got brought back over and over simply because someone liked her was Liara, but I always chalked that up to writer service, not fan service.

 

I'm not sure why they keep bringing Cullen back, but I'm not complaining about it. I don't know why they brought Oghren back, either, but I always figured it had to do with him being a not unpopular character. No, I'm not crying fan service. I just guessed that they figured he'd be easy to write in as the comedic relief; there's nothing deep or involved there. It was just my bad luck that I always wanted to drop kick the little troll.

[pengwin21]

I can see why they brought Oghren back as well if they wanted a carryover character from Origins. Not a romance so his content doesn't differ greatly and he was unlikely to be dead or kicked from the party so he was a 'neutral' choice overall that most players could experience. We just didn't really need a carryover character though.

[wildelight]

What I find interesting is not necessarily that he reappears, but that he keeps getting more and more important (and interesting, imho)!

http://championsandh...7738/evolution/

[frylock23]

You could say that Cullen is evolving or, like a calf, they're fattening him up for the slaughter ...

 

This IS BioWare, you know, and they did just let him become a LI. I'd say he's in danger. 

[john-in-france]

Sadly Frylock23 may have a point...not like Bioware never writes tragic romances....

[Killdren88]

You could say that Cullen is evolving or, like a calf, they're fattening him up for the slaughter ...

This IS BioWare, you know, and they did just let him become a LI. I'd say he's in danger.

We can hope his demise comes sooner rather than later.

[Caja]

To each his own .

[pengwin21]

I don't think we can kill advisors in this game.

[duckley]

If I recall there were at least two ending versions of slides regarding Cullen, and yes, the ending slides were always assumed to be rumours, not fact.

Having said that, I have always thought it odd that the Cullen was one of the few NCPs to be included in two and now three of the games. I dont believe the fandom has much to do with it, as there was a relatively small fanbase for Cullen until DA2....I am pretty sure David Gaider has made it clear that they would not simply include or exclude a character based on popularity. A character must fit within the direction of the story.

It does make me wonder if there is something else yet to learn about Cullen, or whether his unique experiences with both Mages and Templars is the sole reason (and a valid one IMO) he has a role in yet another DA game.

[duckley]

I don't think you can "not count" Bodahn and Sandal because it suits you, especially by citing that you don't really interact with them in Origins when you interact with them a lot more than Cullen. Plus Sandal has his whole mysterious thing going on for him. Other than those two, there is Flemeth, Justice and Anders technically that you "can't avoid" in both Origins and DA2, and since for all we know there might be a ghost version of Anders if we chose to kill him at the end of DA2, all five of those characters could potentially forcibly be a part of all three games. With Leliana, Alistair, Bann Teagan, Merrill, Isabela, Sketch (in a way), Nathaniel Howe and probably others I'm missing that COULD show up in all three (Zevran confirmed not to make an appearance).

True enough but I believe the OP was referring to NPCs. Of your list Bann Teagan might fit. Bodhan and Sandal, Flemith, and Herren and Wade would also be three for three. Others?

[frylock23]

@pengwin21 Understand, that I harbor no ill will toward Cullen and am planning on him as a LI for at least my first quizzy, and I know WE can't kill off our advisors. That doesn't mean that BioWare's writers can't. I'm just wary of BioWare's fondness for writing tragedy into the romances after watching Alistair do the US, having Anders blow up the Chantry on me, Thane ..., knowing that anyone who romanced Jacob got dumped, and then having ME3 go south for Shepard no matter what you did.

 

The odds of having a romance end well just isn't all that good for any BioWare character.

[Killdren88]

I don't think we can kill advisors in this game.

Don't crush my hopes and dreams!

[wcholcombe]

I think he is in as his story presents a good arc of personal growth. From the tragic mage hater of DAO (understandably with what he went through), to the more balanced but still distrusting view of DA2, to what I imagine will be a rather balanced character in DAI.

He gives a continuous idea of in game views on mages that other characters really don't. Especially those who have seen the evolution.

[Icefalcon]

I don't think you can "not count" Bodahn and Sandal because it suits you, especially by citing that you don't really interact with them in Origins when you interact with them a lot more than Cullen. Plus Sandal has his whole mysterious thing going on for him. Other than those two, there is Flemeth, Justice and Anders technically that you "can't avoid" in both Origins and DA2, and since for all we know there might be a ghost version of Anders if we chose to kill him at the end of DA2, all five of those characters could potentially forcibly be a part of all three games. With Leliana, Alistair, Bann Teagan, Merrill, Isabela, Sketch (in a way), Nathaniel Howe and probably others I'm missing that COULD show up in all three (Zevran confirmed not to make an appearance).

Strictly speaking Anders is Awakening and not in the original game and yes I take your point a lot of people you meet in Origins can have cameos but depending on your decisions and DLC you can equally not have them too, up to and including Isabela who can be just a cut scene in DA2 if you choose not to meet and recruit her.

 

As for the Bodahn & Sandal thing, I agree there is something of a reveal to come with Sandal, but to me certainly playing DAO I got the feeling they were a game mechanic rather than cast, an opportunity to give you a camp shop with a little colour. Cullen at least had a small part in one of the story lines and one of the Origins

[Darkly Tranquil]

Was it fanservice when Oghren, Leliana, or Anders came back regardless of their endings? Or do you like those characters better so it's not fanservice?

I don't mind Oghren, and I dislike the other two, so it's not a matter of whether I like a character making it fanservice or not. FWIW, my favourite character in DA is Alistair, and I still think his appearance in DA2 was pure fanservice (his appearance added nothing to the game). From where I sit, it's fanservice if the character is shoehorned into a plot they're not really connected to, where a new, unrelated character could have just as easily filled the role, but the popular character is used because they have a following. I'm against any appearance by old characters unless it actually adds something to the current story, not just because fans want a cameo from their favourites.

[pengwin21]

I don't mind Oghren, and I dislike the other two, so it's not a matter of whether I like a character making it fanservice or not. FWIW, my favourite character in DA is Alistair, and I still think his appearance in DA2 was pure fanservice (his appearance added nothing to the game). From where I sit, it's fanservice if the character is shoehorned into a plot they're not really connected to, where a new, unrelated character could have just as easily filled the role, but the popular character is used because they have a following. I'm against any appearance by old characters unless it actually adds something to the current story, not just because fans want a cameo from their favourites.

 

I think it's difficult to hold the opinion that Cullen returning is 'fanservice' while Leliana isn't when:

 

1. Both Cullen and Leliana have possible endings that contradict their presence in future games

 

2. Leliana is the significantly more popular character- she's a full companion with a romance arc who gets her own DLC. Cullen has a few lines in the Mage Origin and a few lines in Broken Circle. 

 

I don't think Isabela and Merrill became full companions in DA2 because of their popularity from DA:O, but rather because the writers felt like writing the character in another game. IMO Cullen returning in DA2 is more similar to them than it is to someone like Alistair making a cameo, which I agree seemed unnecessary.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Cullen's role in DAI is "military adviser". Can you honestly say that they couldn't have easily developed a new character to fill that role? Its not like Cullen really has that much established backstory for the writers to work from. What does he bring to the role that another character could not, other than a horde of fangirls? Leliana on the other hand has a lot more backstory and is a much more developed character, so its unsurprising they would continue to use her in a major role. The decision to put Cullen in that role reeks of catering to a particular fanbase.

[Lumix19]

Cullen's role in DAI is "military adviser". Can you honestly say that they couldn't have easily developed a new character to fill that role? Its not like Cullen really has that much established backstory for the writers to work from. What does he bring to the role that another character could not, other than a horde of fangirls? Leliana on the other hand has a lot more backstory and is a much more developed character, so its unsurprising they would continue to use her in a major role. The decision to put Cullen in that role reeks of catering to a particular fanbase.

And fanguys but that's not the point. Sure Cullen doesn't have the background of Leliana but he's particularly relevant as he was at Kirkwall when this all started and he's seen what both templars and mages can do at their worst. Far more relevant then adding some random military advisor.

[Muspade]

Cullen's role in DAI is "military adviser". Can you honestly say that they couldn't have easily developed a new character to fill that role? Its not like Cullen really has that much established backstory for the writers to work from. What does he bring to the role that another character could not, other than a horde of fangirls? Leliana on the other hand has a lot more backstory and is a much more developed character, so its unsurprising they would continue to use her in a major role. The decision to put Cullen in that role reeks of catering to a particular fanbase.

 

Considering he wasn't even considered a romance option before after the delay, I'm uncertain how much of a "Fanservice" decision his involvement was.

[pengwin21]

Cullen's role in DAI is "military adviser". Can you honestly say that they couldn't have easily developed a new character to fill that role? Its not like Cullen really has that much established backstory for the writers to work from. What does he bring to the role that another character could not, other than a horde of fangirls? Leliana on the other hand has a lot more backstory and is a much more developed character, so its unsurprising they would continue to use her in a major role. The decision to put Cullen in that role reeks of catering to a particular fanbase.

 

And there are no other spies in the DA universe other than Leliana? Why not develop a new spy character as well? The fact that Leliana is a more established character doesn't seem that relevant- there are a number of developed characters from previous games they're electing not to reuse.

 

My point is that if Bioware were catering to fans as their main concern, why wouldn't they have more previous companions show up rather than relatively minor NPCs? The companions are more popular overall compared to Cullen.

[Tarvesh]

Cullen's role in DAI is "military adviser". Can you honestly say that they couldn't have easily developed a new character to fill that role? Its not like Cullen really has that much established backstory for the writers to work from. What does he bring to the role that another character could not, other than a horde of fangirls? Leliana on the other hand has a lot more backstory and is a much more developed character, so its unsurprising they would continue to use her in a major role. The decision to put Cullen in that role reeks of catering to a particular fanbase.

Sure they could have made another character. But with Cullrn, you already have a character that has seen the best and worst in mages in two different Circles, was there to witness the events that led to the beginning of the Mage/Templar war, has likely the past few years fighting in said war, and has connections to both the HoF and Hawke.

With a character whose back story already has everything needed for a military advisor at this point in Thedas' history, why would Bioware bother goin through the trouble of creating and entirely new NPC when Cullen is a character they have readily at hand?

There's no need for an entirely new cast I characters when those from other games are seen rising to prominence and can fill the roles needed. It's not fan service, it's character progression. Bioware tends to acknowledge that characters evolve overtime and let us see that even with NPC's.