202 réponses à ce sujet

[ObserverStatus]

If they're in, I know the first thing I'm going to do as soon as my game finishes installing...

 

Spoiler

*press ~ key (or whatever activates it)

*player.additem f 9999999*

 

Okay, that's a method for a completely different game but Skyrim fans you know what I'm talking about.  I always like to have a crap ton of gold on me at all times.  Just in case I come across this really fabulous piece of outfit in a store that I wouldn't have the money for otherwise.  It's a weakness.  I'm sorry.  Money is hard enough to come by in real life.  I hate working for it in video games.  >_>

You know me all too well, if DA:I allows it, I'm gonna do this

 

Spoiler

[Battlebloodmage]

I only use it for the second playthrough, my first playthrough will always be legit. I may use mod to turn people gay if it available.

[Killdren88]

I have a rule a beat a game honorably then play with cheats.

[Mercedes-Benz]

The only "cheat" I would use is for adding the remaining talents and skills after reaching the level cap, since I dislike the fact that it can't be done the "normal" way.

[Bfler]

A gold cheat, if there is an expensive piece of armor with good stats.

[Muspade]

I have never played AoE2. And I personally do not utilize commands that grant invulnerability. That said, if another Player desires to do so in their solo game, it ain't cheating. No lies; simply varied rules for different Players.

And these types of commands are used by both Devs and Modders to playtest the games.

 

Changing the default state of a game to something favorable to the player is exactly cheating, that you're denying it is strange to me. If you're not playing by the standard ruleset given to by the released product and choose to give yourself an advantage, it's cheating.

Giving yourself gold to buy the best equipment is a huge power boost, even if that power boost is given to you by something already in game however it's cheating because what you bought it with, wasn't something you earned through the standard rules, AKA what we refer to as "Cheat codes".

You're cheating but it's not hurting anyone.

[Ailith Tycane]

Yes, but I;d probably use it for potions instead of gold. 

[Eveangaline]

Not on my first few runs but sometimes on your 7th or so playthrough they can be fun to play with.

[Lebanese Dude]

What would be 'cheating' for your game does not define the rules for every Player.

Using Skyrim, the SkyRe overhaul mod (do not use it myself, but have watched it in play) increases damage for Players, as well as opponents. From what I am able to tell, this was done to kill deer and other game at lower levels with a couple of hits rather than having to spam attacks to hunt. Armor is treated the same way; improved for both sides, so no side gains the advantage. And the mod itself is modular; one can select which sub-modules to utilize.

In my game, I give myself unlimited gold. As far as I am able to tell, this does not have any negative effect on the NPC's at all. Both sides appear to remain equaling powerful. I also choose mods that do the same thing; adds to both sides, so the PC does not gain an advantage. I simply get to avoid having to backtrack to towns and stores so often, and avoid the tedium.

Same goes for Skill bonuses. Rather than click and make daggers or some other item, I use commands to add a few pts to Skills, and use a montage or Fade to Black moment to sim the passage of time. Tedious practice and repetition avoided; gameplay for my solo game improved. Same results either way, but one avoids the yawns.

The player is not the game designer. The game was balanced via testing and quality assurance by the developer. When you modify the game in any way, you are cheating. In single player games, the only person who is affected by the cheating is the player. In that case, it is up to the player and his/her conscience to accept the cheat. This is where player point of view comes into play.

I use over 100 Skyrim mods. I'm fully aware that I have custom tailored the game to fit my roleplaying requirements. My mods make the game WAY harder (hell I get debuffs for not eating/sleeping/drinking). However, this is still modifying the game to suit my own needs and is therefore "cheating". I'm just not hurting anybody by making use of such mods.


For example (in Skyrim):

I make my carryweight 9000. Now I can carry a lot more items and therefore make more gold/hour than the average player. I cheated to get a gameplay advantage.

I make my abilities hit harder because I want to make the game more fast-paced rather than a chopsticks fight.
A side-effect of this is making Dragons significantly weaker, so now i have it easier than others so I "cheated" to make the dragon-hunting game easier for me than other players (unintentionally).
I could "fix" this by downloading a dragon-buffing mod like Deadly Dragons.
Repeat Cycle of "fixing".

However, in the end you make the game the way you want it to be and accept the cheats. You do not have to justify yourself to anyone but yourself. You can ultimately make the game a better experience and that's what matters in SP games.

----

Another example: MMO mods

Those that use DPS counters are able to min-max more DPS more effectively. They gain an advantage in boss fights. So they are "cheating". They don't hurt anybody as they only seek to maximize their output. When top guilds who use DPS counters liberally get a world first boss kill, nobody says "Well it's because they used Recount and DBM!!". It's just an accepted form of cheating. In this case cheating becomes "cheating", because if players accept this bending of the rules...it's not really what we traditionally call cheating is it?

[Muspade]

<snip>

I don't believe that "gimping" yourself counts as "cheating" as "cheating" would generally involve something which favors the player and makes his playthrough easier than the standard format?

[Shelondias]

I use the console on subsequent playthroughs after a clean first play.
Pump my willpower to max, add some armor or items I can't get normally via my playstyle (like the griffon's beak in DAO)
 

[Lebanese Dude]

I don't believe that "gimping" yourself counts as "cheating" as "cheating" would generally involve something which favors the player and makes his playthrough easier than the standard format?

It's why I used quotations, as gimping yourself does not give you an advantage in the short term. You are still modifying the game rules though and this are playing in a different way. I'm not exactly cheating when I lower my skill rate increases in Skyrim as I am not technically giving myself an advantage. However, a possible side effect is that the leveled unit system would make unintentionally make powerful godlike dragons get one shot by a bear. So this can be considered "cheating". Modifying player attributes negatively doesn't produce similar results but that's a unique case,

Also, cheating doesn't always mean "make easy". You can cheat by cutting content or making processes more efficient., while keeping difficulty constant.

[nightscrawl]

I won't use it the first go 'round, no. I might in the future to get something I might not be able to otherwise.

 

An example from DA2: I give myself the Robe of Hidden Pockets because I never import a save where I've killed Sophia Dryden, and also The Ream-Ward for Fenris (this was never enabled in the game and he looks awesome with it.) In DAO the only thing I use it for is to give myself a complete set of lower tier armor just so I have a complete look.

 

I never use it to cheat in a significant way, like god modes, skill levels, or anything like that. In Skyrim I do increase my carry weight by a bit, occasionally give myself some (common) crafting materials because I'm too lazy to farm them, and some random clothing to play with dressup.

[Gtdef]

When you use cheats for a single player game you cheat yourself out of the experience that the developers created for you. Every single detail matters. Either being gameplay related, roleplaying or just visuals. 

 

If you don't like what the developers present you with for any reason, then you are free to change it as long as it doesn't affect someone else, but saying that this isn't really cheating is just rationalizing something that doesn't need to be rationalized. Changing anything is classified as cheating.

 

Lebanese's post is spot on. Even using approved addons in mmos is cheating. It's not an invasive form because it doesn't allow you to do something that isn't there, but they exist to compensate for awareness and help you be more efficient in the execution of an action. Also wow is a good example of how just changing visuals is invasive.

 

There is a faction in Burning Crusade that you could farm reputation by finding eggs and giving them to an npc. The eggs were rare and hard to spot so some players used a mod that changes the appearance of the eggs into giant root vegetation that you could spot a mile away. This affected everyone because the eggs are limited with a long respawn time.

[UniformGreyColor]

Skyrim, DA any game for that matter is just that, a game. Why should it matter what the player chooses to do in it? Its not like cheating on your taxes or something. From what it looks like in this thread many people still have certain rules they follow when using the console. If anything the console is just a better way to customize the experience for the player to make it more enjoyable for them.

 

Also its hard to believe some people can realistically be adamant about controlling what people do with their game. If you ask me I would say the naysayers are just trolls.

 

Edit: I even say this as someone who never use a console command once in a game that I put 600+ hours into. I think the better the game is made the less you will have to use console commands but people can do whatever they want with something they use for entertainment which they paid for.

Modifié par UniformGreyColor, 06 octobre 2014 - 01:34 .

[Chari]

I use console commands only when I'm playing for the story-only and am creating save files for DA:O and DA2

My main playthrough is console-free

[xkg]

Skyrim, DA any game for that matter is just that, a game. Why should it matter what the player chooses to do in it? Its not like cheating on your taxes or something. From what it looks like in this thread many people still have certain rules they follow when using the console. If anything the console is just a better way to customize the experience for the player to make it more enjoyable for them.

 

Also its hard to believe some people can realistically be adamant about controlling what people do with their game. If you ask me I would say the naysayers are just trolls.

 

So true, so true. You have +1 from me.

 

When you use cheats for a single player game you cheat yourself out of the experience that the developers created for you. 

 

Maybe YOU feel like cheating YOURSELF by doing that but believe, I am not cheating MYSELF.

Cheating myself "out of the experience that the developers created for" me would mean that by using the cheats, I am enjoying the game less than I would without them.

That's not the case. From my point of view, I just modded my game to my likings, so I can enjoy it better.

 

But nevermind, there is always a crowd of people, ready to instruct me about MY enjoyment of MY single player game.

 

So guys, call it whatever you like it - cheating / moding - you can even call it a crime. Do I care?

Nope. I am going to enjoy my cheated playtrough like hell, maybe even better than you will yours.

[Elhanan]

Changing the default state of a game to something favorable to the player is exactly cheating, that you're denying it is strange to me. If you're not playing by the standard ruleset given to by the released product and choose to give yourself an advantage, it's cheating.

Giving yourself gold to buy the best equipment is a huge power boost, even if that power boost is given to you by something already in game however it's cheating because what you bought it with, wasn't something you earned through the standard rules, AKA what we refer to as "Cheat codes".

You're cheating but it's not hurting anyone.

Perhaps it is cheating for you, but not for me or others that choose to utilize the codes that are designed and implemented for the game. Or the included Toolkit.

[Elhanan]

The player is not the game designer. The game was balanced via testing and quality assurance by the developer. When you modify the game in any way, you are cheating. In single player games, the only person who is affected by the cheating is the player. In that case, it is up to the player and his/her conscience to accept the cheat. This is where player point of view comes into play.

I use over 100 Skyrim mods. I'm fully aware that I have custom tailored the game to fit my roleplaying requirements. My mods make the game WAY harder (hell I get debuffs for not eating/sleeping/drinking). However, this is still modifying the game to suit my own needs and is therefore "cheating". I'm just not hurting anybody by making use of such mods.


For example (in Skyrim):

I make my carryweight 9000. Now I can carry a lot more items and therefore make more gold/hour than the average player. I cheated to get a gameplay advantage.

MMO and m/p play are separate from this discussion.

I make my abilities hit harder because I want to make the game more fast-paced rather than a chopsticks fight.
A side-effect of this is making Dragons significantly weaker, so now i have it easier than others so I "cheated" to make the dragon-hunting game easier for me than other players (unintentionally).
I could "fix" this by downloading a dragon-buffing mod like Deadly Dragons.
Repeat Cycle of "fixing".

However, in the end you make the game the way you want it to be and accept the cheats. You do not have to justify yourself to anyone but yourself. You can ultimately make the game a better experience and that's what matters in SP games.

----

Another example: MMO mods

Those that use DPS counters are able to min-max more DPS more effectively. They gain an advantage in boss fights. So they are "cheating". They don't hurt anybody as they only seek to maximize their output. When top guilds who use DPS counters liberally get a world first boss kill, nobody says "Well it's because they used Recount and DBM!!". It's just an accepted form of cheating. In this case cheating becomes "cheating", because if players accept this bending of the rules...it's not really what we traditionally call cheating is it?

The Developer have their visions for the game; the Player has theirs. While I prefer to see thru their eyes for a time, if it becomes tedious or has bugs, I will attempt to repair or tailor the product as I deem fit. Not cheating, at least for my game; the solo one.

I often use Gold commands. With this, there is little reason to require Encumbrance buffs. You say potato....

In Skyrim, I added Deadly Dragons, Balanced Magic, High Lvl Enemies, and Ultimate Combat. Within half of these mods are variable settings to allow the indv Player to tailor the game their way. If those settings differ from another Player, it is not cheating; it is a different choice. And some settings within these mods affect both sides; prefer to find and keep the balance.

[Gtdef]

Cheating myself "out of the experience that the developers created for" me would mean that by using the cheats, I am enjoying the game less than I would without them.

That's not the case. From my point of view, I just modded my game to my likings, so I can enjoy it better.

 

No, it would mean that the game you are playing is different than they one they created for you. As I said, everyone is free to do whatever he likes as long as it's fair (which it is by definition since it's a single player game). But calling it "not cheating" is wrong. Changing the game files and the functions of a game is cheating. Plain and simple. I don't care one bit how you enjoy the game or if you enjoy it more with a green sky rather than a purple one. 

 

Fair cheating is still cheating and I gave an example of how a fair mod (changing visuals) was used to create a big advantage.

[Muspade]

Perhaps it is cheating for you, but not for me or others that choose to utilize the codes that are designed and implemented for the game. Or the included Toolkit.

 

The toolkit is used for fixing bugs and other things which might break the game or otherwise enchant the game while not demeaning the gameplay but visuals and other things. You "break" the game by adding infinite gold to yourself. I'm not certain why that would only be "cheating for me", as you're essentially tipping the gameplay in your favour by giving yourself infinite gold, giving your access equipment that you were not mean't to be able to purchase from the get go.

Do explain how this is not cheating.

[Elhanan]

When you use cheats for a single player game you cheat yourself out of the experience that the developers created for you. Every single detail matters. Either being gameplay related, roleplaying or just visuals. 
 
If you don't like what the developers present you with for any reason, then you are free to change it as long as it doesn't affect someone else, but saying that this isn't really cheating is just rationalizing something that doesn't need to be rationalized. Changing anything is classified as cheating.
 
Lebanese's post is spot on. Even using approved addons in mmos is cheating. It's not an invasive form because it doesn't allow you to do something that isn't there, but they exist to compensate for awareness and help you be more efficient in the execution of an action. Also wow is a good example of how just changing visuals is invasive.
 
There is a faction in Burning Crusade that you could farm reputation by finding eggs and giving them to an npc. The eggs were rare and hard to spot so some players used a mod that changes the appearance of the eggs into giant root vegetation that you could spot a mile away. This affected everyone because the eggs are limited with a long respawn time.

With this outlook, fixing a bug is cheating; a detail included created by the developers. This seems to be incorrect.

MMO and m/p play is not part of this discussion. Pass.

[Elhanan]

The toolkit is used for fixing bugs and other things which might break the game or otherwise enchant the game while not demeaning the gameplay but visuals and other things. You "break" the game by adding infinite gold to yourself. I'm not certain why that would only be "cheating for me", as you're essentially tipping the gameplay in your favour by giving yourself infinite gold, giving your access equipment that you were not mean't to be able to purchase from the get go.

Do explain how this is not cheating.

Console Commands are used for fixing bugs and other things that might break; not cheating. What you might consider cheating for yourself does not speed along the internet to other systems and define another Player's game choices.

You wish to spend the extra time slogging across the maps hauling scrap, then more power to you. But to state that skipping the tedium via commands that are included with someone else's game is suspect.

[Lebanese Dude]

With this outlook, fixing a bug is cheating; a detail included created by the developers. This seems to be incorrect.MMO and m/p play is not part of this discussion. Pass.

Yes, fixing a bug is cheating because the developers didnt do it and us other players don't have access to the fixed content like you do, giving you a superior experience.

How is this not clear?

It seems you have an issue with the word "cheating". In that case feel free to substitute the word "cheating" with "modified game according to fit my own vision of how to succeed". It's the same meaning but less ev0l.

[xkg]

No, it would mean that the game you are playing is different than they one they created for you.

 

Yes, that would exactly mean that. 

 

But calling it "not cheating" is wrong.

 

But calling it "cheating" is wrong.

Now prove me wrong.

You can't. But since those are our opinions, not facts, if we continue we will end up with

 

-U.

-No! U.

 

Changing the game files and the functions of a game is cheating. Plain and simple.

 

Really? This is getting ridiculous.

 

I guess you should go now to nexus mods forums. Tell them they are "Cheating', not the "Modding" community.

Have fun there.