202 réponses à ce sujet

[Lebanese Dude]

Yes, that would exactly mean that.





But calling it "cheating" is wrong.
Now prove me wrong.
You can't. But since those are our opinions, not facts, if we continue we will end up with

-U.
-No! U.





Really? This is getting ridiculous.

I guess you should go now to nexus mods forums. Tell them they are "Cheating', not the "Modding" community.
Have fun there, explaining them.

Fact: Modding changes the vanilla experience of the game
Fact: Modding allows players to have gameplay advantages
Fact: Modding includes changes to existing game values
Fact: Cheating roughly means changing game rules and settings to fit your vision of the game
Fact: Changing game values translates to potentially having an unfair gameplay advantage

Corollary: Unfair gameplay advantage resulting from usage of mods is cheating.

If you use a mod to make your swords look like axes, you are only changing visuals and there is no gameplay advantage. In single player that is acceptable. Not cheating.
If you use a mod to make your carry weight really high, you are changing inventory and gaining a gameplay advantage. In single player that is acceptable. Still cheating as others are playing with base carry weight.


Result: modding can potentially be considered cheating depending on the mod.

There... A formal Internetz proof.

[AlanC9]

Fact: Changing game values translates to potentially having an unfair gameplay advantage
Corollary: Unfair gameplay advantage resulting from usage of mods is cheating.

Define "unfair." I don't see how this is a meaningful concept in a SP game.

[MeerMusik]

Not on my first Playthroughs with 3 or 4 different World States.

 

But if some Console Commands should be available:

A.) If their should be a (some) serious Bug(s): Yes. Why not?

B.) If their should be internal Cheats: Yes. With a later Playthrough.

 

I love to play around and have some Fun. But I dont think we will be able to spawn Swarms of Enemies, making us (nearly) God mode like, and try to get the maximum Fun out of it.

 

I hope that their will be some kind of Mod Tools from Bioware itself at a later Date or some File Editors like from Gib. Not only for editing Save Files. But especially setting more Enemies into a Level to get a "Nightmare Mode Ultra" - that would be fantastic.

[AlanC9]

Yes, fixing a bug is cheating because the developers didnt do it and us other players don't have access to the fixed content like you do, giving you a superior experience.
How is this not clear?

That's a very strange use of the word "cheating," you know. I don't think I've ever heard a native English speaker ITRW use "cheating" to describe a situation where there are no other parties adversely effected by the "cheating," except for certain idiomatic phrases such as "cheating death," which work because death is being personified.

[xkg]

Fact: Modding changes the vanilla experience of the game

 

Fact. So ?

 

Fact: Modding allows players to have gameplay advantages

 

Fact. So ?

 

Fact: Modding includes changes to existing game values

 

Fact. So ?

 

Fact: Cheating roughly means changing game rules and settings to fit your vision of the game

 

Not a fact. That is changing the game to my likings.

 

 

Fact: Changing game values translates to potentially having an unfair gameplay advantage

 

Not a fact.Unfair over whom?  Can anyone have an unfair advantage over the non living things, over the game?

Oh boy maybe that's just the language differences - English is not my primary. But in my language "having an advantage" is only used when discussing about some kind of competition. There is no competition in single player game.

 

 

Corollary: Unfair gameplay advantage resulting from usage of mods is cheating.

 

See the above.

 

Result: modding can potentially be considered cheating depending on the mod.

There... A formal Internetz proof.

 

Your reasonings and the result looks more like your opinions not the facts, thereofre you can't call it a proof.

[UniformGreyColor]

I guess you should go now to nexus mods forums. Tell them they are "Cheating', not the "Modding" community.

Have fun there.

 

I got a good chuckle out of that. thanks.

[Gtdef]

Yes, that would exactly mean that. 

 

 

 

But calling it "cheating" is wrong.

Now prove me wrong.

You can't. But since those are our opinions, not facts, if we continue we will end up with

 

-U.

-No! U.

 

 

 

Really? This is getting ridiculous.

 

I guess you should go now to nexus mods forums. Tell them they are "Cheating', not the "Modding" community.

Have fun there, explaining them.

 

There are 2 different types of mods. Cheats and Scenarios. Cheating is when you use change a function (for a potential advantage or not). Using Skyrim for example, If you mod Lydia to be beautiful because you don't like her original art and prevents you from marrying her, you cheat. If you mod the Daedric armor to have different stats or be classified as light instead of heavy then you cheat.

 

Scenarios is when you use the game engine to create a minigame that works outside of the main game. But if it overlaps then it's still a cheat, just a potentially more fun one. For example in Skyrim, introducing a hunting game would be a scenario, but since you can use the hides to an effect it overlaps. In other games a scenario traditionally is a different map, usually with different objects than the main game and is created with the toolkit. It is completely irrelevant to the main game. Dota is a scenario. Doesn't affect Warcraft 3 original gameplay in the slightest.

 

But in any case, your problem is the negative quality of the word cheating. Use the synonym you prefer. Hacks, personalization, whatever tickles your fancy. Doesn't matter in the long run. You still change the game files and the functions of the game. This action needs a name. Take your pick. That's like arguing that the  "lifehacks" aren't really hacks because by the word's definition you don't slash things and you don't write code.

 

Each game has specific rules. Changing the rules is called cheating. Sometimes cheating is the only way to enjoy a game. That's not for me to say unless it affects me somehow.

[Muspade]

Console Commands are used for fixing bugs and other things that might break; not cheating. 

I suggest you re-read my post because this was not at all what I was saying.
 

 

 You wish to spend the extra time slogging across the maps hauling scrap, then more power to you. But to state that skipping the tedium via commands that are included with someone else's game is suspect

 

There is, infact, a fast travel mechanicism however teleporting to a location on the map that you've not yet unlocked is also cheating, my friend. 

This honestly feels like that one time I tried explaining that torrenting ME3 was infact stealing...

Another side-note I wish to take is that my "views" on cheating does not go under Lebanese dude's definition. The fact that we make our own definition for what is and isn't cheating is fairly absurd however, giving yourself an unfair advantage against the AI by getting the best equipment via having infinite gold at the start of the game is a matter a fact not balanced the way the game made it to be, hence what "I" call cheating.

 

That mean's, modifying your game to make you more powerful is CHEATING. Modifying appearences and making the NPC's more powerful is not. It's gimping yourself.(Making the NPC's more powerful, that is.)

It's fairly pointless repeating myself when people take words out of context or otherwise can't acknowledge that they are in fact "cheating" against the game. (Uuh, dirty word)

 

[Muspade]

There are 2 different types of mods. Cheats and Scenarios. Cheating is when you use change a function (for a potential advantage or not). Using Skyrim for example, If you mod Lydia to be beautiful because you don't like her original art and prevents you from marrying her, you cheat. 

I get that we agree on that making yourself more powerful via the toolkit, mods, etc is cheating however I'm not certain why modding appearences is cheating, as it gives you no unfair advantage against the rules of the system?

[Shapeshifter777]

Why are we even having this debate?  Yes, console commands CAN be used to cheat, but that's not their ONLY function.  I simply enjoy using them to change the appearance of my character's model to something like a monster, because I find monsters have cooler textures and animations to watch than boring generic humans.  It doesn't change my stats or make me invincible or give me any gold.  It's a purely aesthetic change that I find adds replay value and makes things more interesting to look at.  I've done this in DA:O, DA II and even in Diablo III (using Cheat Engine).  It's just what I like to do.  Regardless of how YOU may feel about people who use console commands to play THEIR game how THEY want, they should still have the ability to do it.

[Muspade]

Why are we even having this debate?  Yes, console commands CAN be used to cheat, but that's not their ONLY function.  I simply enjoy using them to change the appearance of my character's model to something like a monster, because I find monsters have cooler textures and animations to watch than boring generic humans.  It doesn't change my stats or make me invincible or give me any gold.  It's a purely aesthetic change that I find adds replay value and makes things more interesting to look at.  I've done this in DA:O, DA II and even in Diablo III (using Cheat Engine).  It's just what I like to do.  Regardless of how YOU may feel about people who use console commands to play THEIR game how THEY want, they should still have the ability to do it.

This guy gets it.

[Gtdef]

I get that we agree on that making yourself more powerful via the toolkit, mods, etc is cheating however I'm not certain why modding appearences is cheating, as it gives you no unfair advantage against the rules of the system?

 

If you want to get technical, skins are exploitable. This is common among games that offer skins for the playable character. Ability usage and pathing can be affected to an observable degree by just changing skins. Also some skins can make it harder for people to distinguish features (which is pretty important for high level multiplayer play). Of course most people wouldn't care about this but the room for error exists. Also on a previous post I showcased an example of visuals affecting gameplay in World of Warcraft. If you want you can google "netherwing eggs to roots". You will probably find the mod itself.

 

The method to do this is exactly the same as changing Lydia's appearance. One is benign, other is invasive. I consider both of them as cheats.

 

Edit: Another example of visuals affecting the game was the nightvision scope in Battlefield 3. It turned all enemies into orange, easily distinguishable from the rest of the enviroment. Made the game an arcane shooter. Also the flashlight was unfair because it turned everyone's screen white at a certain distance even in broad daylight. They were completely game breaking and exploitable and were patched out of the game.

[xkg]

Ok, ok guys. This exchange is pointless.

 

Let's sum it up.

 

It's cheating, in your opinion, in mine it isn't.

You are going to enjoy your game in the "legit way", I am going to "mod" ( call it cheat if you prefer). Both ways are equally enjoyable - of course that vary with the person playing it.

 

The rest of the arguments from both sides are merely opinions - and since "opinions can't be wrong", I am not going to debate over them.

 

Now let's back to TC question. So the rest of you, are you going to use the console ?

[DaddyDirection]

I don't know, in Skyrim I used the console for money and tedious "ingredient" gathering for alchemy and smithing - but other than that it wasn't something I frequented. When it comes to Dragon Age however, I don't think I'd use it if it did have it. It's just not one of those games that I feel I need one. Plus, I usually get my weapons and armor in these games (DA) from looting - I was always too lazy (and cheap) to buy it - so gold isn't too big of a deal.

[AlanC9]

Ok, ok guys. This exchange is pointless.

 

A lot of BSN exchanges are. We gotta kill time somehow until the next big Bio reveal, which is probably the sysreqs.

[Muspade]

Ok, ok guys. This exchange is pointless.

 

Let's sum it up.

 

It's cheating, in your opinion, in mine it isn't.

 

 

This honestly feels like that one time I tried explaining that torrenting ME3 was infact stealing...

[Zjarcal]

Quick question for the "zomg u filthy cheetos" crowd, do you also consider it "cheating" when a mod makes a game more difficult?

 

My peace of mind doesn't live or die on this issue, I'm just merely curious.

[Ailith Tycane]

I don't see how it's cheating when it's a single player game. It doesn't give you an unfair advantage over anyone like if you were to cheat in a MP game. 

[Muspade]

Quick question for the "zomg u filthy cheetos" crowd, do you also consider it "cheating" when a mod makes a game more difficult?

My peace of mind doesn't live or die on this issue, I'm just merely curious.

I don't.

Read my previous posts if that answer is not enough. It's gimping yourself.
 

 

I don't see how it's cheating when it's a single player game. It doesn't give you an unfair advantage over anyone like if you were to cheat in a MP game.

It's cheating the ruleset of the game. It doesn't have the same ramifications as on multiplayer but you're still preforming the same act and making the game easier for yourself. No, I'm not saying "modding appearences" is cheating. Gez.

[xkg]

 

 

 

 

Lulz. The fact is

Bear > Spider = So, You lost.

[Milan92]

I always cheat the heck out of my games.

 

Its glorious.

[Gtdef]

Quick question for the "zomg u filthy cheetos" crowd, do you also consider it "cheating" when a mod makes a game more difficult?

 

My peace of mind doesn't live or die on this issue, I'm just merely curious.

 

The intention of the modification is irrelevant. At the simplest of terms, the same method you use to make the game harder, is the method you use to make it easier. The definition of cheating implies a competitive environment, but the act is the same non the less. Only the intention changes. We've been using the words "hacks" and "cheats" to describe alterations in game files for ever. This doesn't change just because the intention is different.

[Ailith Tycane]

Semantics about what is cheating and what isn't aside, the more important question is who cares? People are completely allowed to manipulate a single player game to fit their wants, it affects no one but them.

[Muspade]

 the more important question is who cares?

 
Oh, the old "Who cares" arguement. I care.

[Gtdef]

Semantics about what is cheating and what isn't aside, the more important question is who cares? People are completely allowed to manipulate a single player game to fit their wants, it affects no one but them.

 

I personally don't care, I stated this multiple times.