202 réponses à ce sujet

[Ailith Tycane]

 
Oh, the old "Who cares" arguement. I care.
 

 

And why would you care about what other people do with their own games? It doesn't affect you at all. 

[Zarord]

 

 

...but only after the first playthrough.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Quick question for the "zomg u filthy cheetos" crowd, do you also consider it "cheating" when a mod makes a game more difficult?

 

My peace of mind doesn't live or die on this issue, I'm just merely curious.

 

 

YOO CHEETAH YOO DIRTEH CHEETAH

 

Wait...

 

 

Did my misspullin' mean I called you a dirty cheetah?

 

 

 

 

 

(For the record, I scanned through the other pictures from that series, and it looks like it actually ends well, and the cat (which might actually be a tiger, I think) was being affectionate towards the mouse. I can't say for sure the little guy didn't end up as dinner, but the affectionate part was cute!)

[Zjarcal]

The intention of the modification is irrelevant. At the simplest of terms, the same method you use to make the game harder, is the method you use to make it easier. The definition of cheating implies a competitive environment, but the act is the same non the less. Only the intention changes. We've been using the words "hacks" and "cheats" to describe alterations in game files for ever. This doesn't change just because the intention is different.

 

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmk

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Oh, and I don't care what anyone does with console commands in an SP environment. There are tonnes of things I would love to have been able to fix using console commands when playing Skyrim, so I wouldn't begrudge anyone else that opportunity.

 

And mods that aren't affecting anyone else's game (against their will) are fine by me. They've been a tremendous boon to gaming, in general, and a critical component in preserving great video games (something that is a huge problem in an industry where standard operating software and hardware change every few years.)

[Lebanese Dude]

Fact. So ?



Fact. So ?



Fact. So ?



Not a fact. That is changing the game to my likings.




Not a fact.Unfair over whom? Can anyone have an unfair advantage over the non living things, over the game?
Oh boy maybe that's just the language differences - English is not my primary. But in my language "having an advantage" is only used when discussing about some kind of competition. There is no competition in single player game.




See the above.



Your reasonings and the result looks more like your opinions not the facts, thereofre you can't call it a proof.

Well English isn't my first language either, but when I misunderstand something I make sure to ask for a clarification.

First of all, you are presenting no argument. If you wish to get all "So?" on me, at least provide reasons. Otherwise you are coming off as a troll.
The listed sentences are indeed facts. How is any of them remotely an opinion? That's like saying a "swinging a hammer to the face breaks your nose" is an opinion. Please elaborate.

Second of all, we are discussing games here. The level of competition is irrelevant. A game has a property of fairness, irrespective of whether it is a single or multiplayer game, towards the player and towards the opposition. Cheating when playing chess against a chessmaster software is still cheating. The property of "living" is irrelevant.

This is especially for a game like Dragon Age which uses AI. Your chosen difficulty dictates the AI's power. Therefore, you are setting a bar for their performance. If you use exploits or cheats to gain an advantage over the AI, it is unfair to the AI, since it can only function in a certain way. Whether you think you are morally justified to do so is another matter.

---

K I'm done here. Clearly some people here are deliberately being obtuse.

[Petiertje]

Not at my first numbers of games.

I'm not saying I will never use them, but in my experience it ruins the game when you start with them before you have finished the game a couple of times. It takes away from the experience to accomplice something difficult, makes it less rewarding to finally beat that boss, or be able to craft/buy a special item. 

This is how I see it however, I think that everyone should decide for themselves what to do with it, if the console commands are possible.

If you have more fun with console commands, use them.

If you don't, don't use them.

It's that simple imo.

[xkg]

First of all, you are presenting no argument. If you wish to get all "So?" on me, at least provide reasons. Otherwise you are coming off as a troll.

 

Those first 3  "facts" of yours, were irrelevant in this discussion thats why I said "So"? You know that very well, I do too. You starting throwing the "troll" words means you started to losing this exchange - that we both know too.

 

So you presented 3 Irrelevant facts and 2 opinions - hardly good source of proof.

 

 

The listed sentences are indeed facts. How is any of them remotely an opinion?

 

That I am cheating by modding my game is your oppinion about my action. That's not a fact, not defined anywhere.

 

 

That's like saying a "swinging a hammer to the face breaks your nose" is an opinion.

 

For sure it is not a fact. For example, I can swing with a hammer at your face, hit your jaw and brake it. Your nose can stay intact.

It may break your nose but it doesn't have to.

 

If you think that 

 

swinging a hammer to the face ⇒ nose is going to get broken

 

then ... well, what can I say. You may try to take logic class again.

 

The rest of your post - I already told my opinion about "cheating the game".

 

 

K I'm done here. Clearly some people here are deliberately being obtuse.

 

Ok. Cya.

[AlanC9]

First of all, you are presenting no argument. If you wish to get all "So?" on me, at least provide reasons. Otherwise you are coming off as a troll.
The listed sentences are indeed facts. How is any of them remotely an opinion? That's like saying a "swinging a hammer to the face breaks your nose" is an opinion. Please elaborate.

I believe "So" there was meant to indicate that they were true facts, but ones that don't lead to your preferred conclusion -- it's a short form of "so what"? Mostly he's making fun of your ponderous rhetoric; since nobody was unaware any of those facts, going over them was something of a waste of space.
 
 

Second of all, we are discussing games here. The level of competition is irrelevant. A game has a property of fairness, irrespective of whether it is a single or multiplayer game, towards the player and towards the opposition. Cheating when playing chess against a chessmaster software is still cheating. The property of "living" is irrelevant.

Even if we assume that "property of fairness" makes sense, this depends on what the point of the game is, doesn't it? A chess game is about competing against the opponent, whether AI or human. I don't think this is the case with an RPG.

[Starscream723]

(For the record, I scanned through the other pictures from that series, and it looks like it actually ends well, and the cat (which might actually be a tiger, I think) was being affectionate towards the mouse. I can't say for sure the little guy didn't end up as dinner, but the affectionate part was cute!)

 

A tiger? Seriously? Mixing up a leopard (what it is) and a cheetah (your original post) is one thing, since they both have spotty-ish patterns. But a TIGER? Did you learn nothing from Frosties boxes? 

[Muspade]

 

then ... well, what can I say. You may try to take logic class again.

 

I dare say the same may applied to you, good sir, if not more.

[xkg]

I dare say the same may applied to you, good sir, if not more.

 

Thanks for your remark, but I am fine.

Anyway, you can always comeback with an example of my failed logic. If you can't, don't bother. It's getting tiresome.

[Muspade]

Thanks for your remark, but I am fine.

Anyway, you can always comeback with an example of my failed logic. If you can't, don't bother. It's getting tiresome.

 

Why bother? "It's just my opinion" 

[Elhanan]

I suggest you re-read my post because this was not at all what I was saying. 
 
 
There is, infact, a fast travel mechanicism however teleporting to a location on the map that you've not yet unlocked is also cheating, my friend. 

This honestly feels like that one time I tried explaining that torrenting ME3 was infact stealing...

Another side-note I wish to take is that my "views" on cheating does not go under Lebanese dude's definition. The fact that we make our own definition for what is and isn't cheating is fairly absurd however, giving yourself an unfair advantage against the AI by getting the best equipment via having infinite gold at the start of the game is a matter a fact not balanced the way the game made it to be, hence what "I" call cheating.
 
That mean's, modifying your game to make you more powerful is CHEATING. Modifying appearences and making the NPC's more powerful is not. It's gimping yourself.(Making the NPC's more powerful, that is.)

It's fairly pointless repeating myself when people take words out of context or otherwise can't acknowledge that they are in fact "cheating" against the game. (Uuh, dirty word)

Simply used what you wrote about Toolkit, and substituted Console Commands; both useful for the same things.

I know of folks that believe Fast Travel is cheating; is the transportation of Milk Drinkers. Personally, I use it to recover horses, avoid back-tracking across cleared roads, or simulate carriages, spells, and other transportation devices. Here again, the cheating is defined by the indv Player; is not defined for them all.

[Muspade]

Simply used what you wrote about Toolkit, and substituted Console Commands; both useful for the same things.

I know of folks that believe Fast Travel is cheating; is the transportation of Milk Drinkers. Personally, I use it to recover horses, avoid back-tracking across cleared roads, or simulate carriages, spells, and other transportation devices. Here again, the cheating is defined by the indv Player; is not defined for them all.

I'd say that's a misuse of the word "cheat" but It doesn't matter.

Lost my motivation. 

[hellbiter88]

I have a sick feeling they won't include them this time around, just because of all the work they seem to have put in to equalize the game across all platforms. that said, I REALLY hope I'm wrong because I would cheat the [...] out of that game the second the intro passes.

 

I cheat. I cheat a lot. and I [...] love it.

Modifié par BioWareMod02, 08 octobre 2014 - 11:52 .
Edited to remove profanity

[N0rke]

Maybe if I find out about a cool set of armor that I'd really like to get my hands on. One of the things I hate most about RPGs is not being able to have the set of armor you like most from the start.

 

Otherwise I'll likely just play the game as I normally would.

[Elfyoth]

I always used Cheats on Sims 3 and its expansion packs and in Oblivion and Skyrim, but Idk, in DA games it just dosent feel right.. so its a no for me. Unless my computer crashes in a boss fight and etc..

[Imported_beer]

One Friday evening, I fired up skyrim, took off all my character's clothes, gave him two buckets and made him run from the northernmost part of the land to the southernmost. Then from east to west.

I couldn't tell you why it seemed like a good idea at the time but TGM was at least partly to blame. I also spent 30 minutes bowling for ferelden.

The point is, no one was too deeply scarred by this, and I laughed a lot. Console commands have a lot of potential for amusement.

[Shapeshifter777]

In skyrim, I loved creating avalanches of cheese to roll down a hill and flood a village at the bottom.

[hellbiter88]

I actually got into the Elder Scrolls series because of all the console commands available. I enjoyed using them, but I didn't find that it deterred from the gameplay at all. In fact, I beat each game at least once without using them at all.

 

The way I look at it is, it's not hurting anyone to make them available. All it does is provide the player with more options to customize the game the way they see fit. And especially in a game that's based on customization, it seems like a waste to not include them.

[Shahadem]

I don't abuse console commands, I enter them responsibly. Like supercrit so my character is on the same level as a boss as she should be according to the game's story and inner logic.

 

I did play both DA:O and DA:A without supercrit for a while, but it just wasn't much fun and every encounter with a humanoid boss was immersion breaking. So on my recent playthrough I just threw it on. Game instantly became ten times more fun for me.

 

And games like Baldur's Gate 2 would be impossibly tedious without control+y and control+j.

 

DIfferent strokes for different folks I guess.

 

Unfortunately DA:I won't see the return of the lovely console commands, nor allow modding, because of the multiplayer component.

[Shahadem]

Fact: Modding changes the vanilla experience of the game
Fact: Modding allows players to have gameplay advantages
Fact: Modding includes changes to existing game values
Fact: Cheating roughly means changing game rules and settings to fit your vision of the game
Fact: Changing game values translates to potentially having an unfair gameplay advantage

Corollary: Unfair gameplay advantage resulting from usage of mods is cheating.

If you use a mod to make your swords look like axes, you are only changing visuals and there is no gameplay advantage. In single player that is acceptable. Not cheating.
If you use a mod to make your carry weight really high, you are changing inventory and gaining a gameplay advantage. In single player that is acceptable. Still cheating as others are playing with base carry weight.


Result: modding can potentially be considered cheating depending on the mod.

There... A formal Internetz proof.

 

But that isn't a proof. You are using your own bias to ignore the assumptions you had to make.

[Shahadem]

The player is not the game designer. The game was balanced via testing and quality assurance by the developer. When you modify the game in any way, you are cheating. In single player games, the only person who is affected by the cheating is the player. In that case, it is up to the player and his/her conscience to accept the cheat. This is where player point of view comes into play.

I use over 100 Skyrim mods. I'm fully aware that I have custom tailored the game to fit my roleplaying requirements. My mods make the game WAY harder (hell I get debuffs for not eating/sleeping/drinking). However, this is still modifying the game to suit my own needs and is therefore "cheating". I'm just not hurting anybody by making use of such mods.


For example (in Skyrim):

I make my carryweight 9000. Now I can carry a lot more items and therefore make more gold/hour than the average player. I cheated to get a gameplay advantage.

I make my abilities hit harder because I want to make the game more fast-paced rather than a chopsticks fight.
A side-effect of this is making Dragons significantly weaker, so now i have it easier than others so I "cheated" to make the dragon-hunting game easier for me than other players (unintentionally).
I could "fix" this by downloading a dragon-buffing mod like Deadly Dragons.
Repeat Cycle of "fixing".

However, in the end you make the game the way you want it to be and accept the cheats. You do not have to justify yourself to anyone but yourself. You can ultimately make the game a better experience and that's what matters in SP games.

----

Another example: MMO mods

Those that use DPS counters are able to min-max more DPS more effectively. They gain an advantage in boss fights. So they are "cheating". They don't hurt anybody as they only seek to maximize their output. When top guilds who use DPS counters liberally get a world first boss kill, nobody says "Well it's because they used Recount and DBM!!". It's just an accepted form of cheating. In this case cheating becomes "cheating", because if players accept this bending of the rules...it's not really what we traditionally call cheating is it?

 

If you are doing it at home by yourself it isn't called cheating, it's called. No I'm not going to finish that sentence.

 

You are also assuming that the balance created by the devs is the same balance desired by the player. This is rarely ever the case. Where modifying the game transforms the game into a game that is the most fun for the developers into the game that is the most fun for the player, then that isn't cheating, it is rebalancing.

[DooomCookie]

With no mods, I probably will.  Bugs will likely need console workarounds as well.