44 réponses à ce sujet

[vhatever]

jonin17 wrote...

vhatever wrote...

Carpe_Diem wrote...

ya but the ship was already screwed and couldnt function. even if you went to save the council the ship wouldnt be able to do much let alone fully unload on the reaper

What do you mean "the ship was already screwed"?

It was heavily damaged, it's shields were failing, it was in retreat, etc.  You notice how quickly it is destroyed after you decide to let them die?  It obviously wasn't in good shape by the time the decision came up.

Uhh, of course it was "in retreat", they were evacuating the Citadel and had no diea they were evacuating straight into a hornet's nest of Geth ships. And of course it was destroyed quickly, that's the nature of the ship as it's a captial warship that is not intended to fight smaller vessels at such range, they are designed to inflict heavy damage but most have decent range, or else they would destroy themselves as well as the enemy ships if they fired.

Your attempt to explain his comment is completely invalid.

[The Moth Vampire]

I can't believe how many people went emotional and in such a negative way. To let the council die led to complete human domination and there is no way that could end well.



I saved the council and picked Anderson because frankly the ambassador was nearly worthless. It in nothing short of a miracle that basing humanity on him I am surprised they didn't just liquidate the human race. I saved the Council because it was the right thing to do.

[vhatever]

Hey, guys, the artillery units are being overrun by infantry.
Is that so, Private?

Well, we can't spare any infantry to save the artillery, we have a battle to win tomorrow.

-- universe's worst general in history.

Modifié par vhatever, 24 janvier 2010 - 08:50 .

[Carpe_Diem]

vhatever wrote...

jonin17 wrote...

vhatever wrote...

Carpe_Diem wrote...

ya but the ship was already screwed and couldnt function. even if you went to save the council the ship wouldnt be able to do much let alone fully unload on the reaper

What do you mean "the ship was already screwed"?

It was heavily damaged, it's shields were failing, it was in retreat, etc.  You notice how quickly it is destroyed after you decide to let them die?  It obviously wasn't in good shape by the time the decision came up.

Uhh, of course it was "in retreat", they were evacuating the Citadel and had no diea they were evacuating straight into a hornet's nest of Geth ships. And of course it was destroyed quickly, that's the nature of the ship as it's a captial warship that is not intended to fight smaller vessels at such range, they are designed to inflict heavy damage but most have decent range, or else they would destroy themselves as well as the enemy ships if they fired.

Your attempt to explain his comment is completely invalid.

ok. well ya im not trying to prove you wrong and be an ass if i came off as that i havent played in a loooonng time.  i do have a question. i never did let them  live. so what does happen if you save them does the ship survive do all the geth around the ship die? plz tell me.

[Behindyounow]

Humanity was treated like crap by the council in the first one. So its time to give the Asari and Turians* a taste of their own medicine... By making Udina the chairman of the human council.

*Salarians too unfortunately. I'd spare them if I could, as the Salarian councellor wasn't a total ass but he had to die to get the Asari and Turian councellors. His sacrifice will not be forgotten.

Modifié par Behindyounow, 24 janvier 2010 - 08:57 .

[Taritu]

I didn't agree with not killing the Geth escort ships while they were separated from Sovereign. Seriously, my first reaction as someone who's very familiar with fleet tactics was "why would I not clean up the escorts?" I didn't agree with Tali's advice. I thought the right thing to do morally was also the right thing to do militarily.



Also the Ascenscion has thousands of crew members. You're not just saving 3 people, and it's unclear more humans die than aliens would—and as a Spectre, I don't prioritize human lives over alien ones. (I wish in ME2 I was saving aliens as well as, or instead of, humans, to underline the point, but I guess that would leave racist renegade types without much motivation.)



And hey, the council owes me a favor and has Anderson on it now.

[Taritu]

Behindyounow wrote...

Humanity was treated like crap by the council in the first one. So its time to give the Asari and Turians* a taste of their own medicine... By making Udina the chairman of the human council.

*Salarians too unfortunately. I'd spare them if I could, as the Salarian councellor wasn't a total ass but he had to die to get the Asari and Turian councellors. His sacrifice will not be forgotten.

Talk to the other races in the citadel and you'll find that their perception is that humanity is the Council's pet.  No, the council wasn't willing to send in the Council fleet to save human colonies, but as the Council said "you knew the risk when you set those colonies up in lawless places."  Humanity has only been a member of the Citadel races for 26 years, and even before you come along, the Council is already considering adding them to the Council, jumping them ahead of races who have been waiting for centuries or even millenia.  If anything the Council shows humanity favoritism.

And, actually, keeping the Council fleet at the Citadel was the only right decision the Council made.  If the Council fleet hadn't already weakened the Geth and Sovereign, the human fleet wouldn't have stood a chance.

[Taritu]

Blackout62 wrote...

Ehh, I went the greater good route thinking killing the council would cause serious revolt by the other citadel races when confronted by a human council.

Agreed as well.  Obviously Bioware wont' do this, because it would derail the sequels, but honestly, there is no way the other races would stand for it.  And given they have far more colonies, shipbuilding capacity and population, humanity would be overwhelmed.  At best earth would be conquered, at worst humanity would get the Krogan or  Rachni treatment.

[Starfire013]

I thought it was silly that just because the council died, the next council would be human. What? There were no other Turian, Salarian, and Asari people who wanted the job?

[Behindyounow]

Well it was less 'treating humanity like crap' on a whole and more 'Treating Shep, Udina and Anderson like crap'.



Making sure that idiot Turian and total ***** Asari die was worth all the lives of the aliens on board their flagship. Its just a shame I couldn't save the Salarian.

[Taritu]

Behindyounow wrote...

Well it was less 'treating humanity like crap' on a whole and more 'Treating Shep, Udina and Anderson like crap'.

Making sure that idiot Turian and total ***** Asari die was worth all the lives of the aliens on board their flagship. Its just a shame I couldn't save the Salarian.

I didn't find the Asari that bad, only the Turian really.  But I don't punish thousands of people and forsake what I consider good military strategy because I don't like one or two people.  But then, my characters are usually paragons.

And hell, I treat Udina like crap.  He's even worse than the council, imo. 

[Taritu]

Starfire013 wrote...

I thought it was silly that just because the council died, the next council would be human. What? There were no other Turian, Salarian, and Asari people who wanted the job?

It's a human power grab.  Which, I believe, would cause a civil war.

[pharos_gryphon]

I hated the Council. Mainly, that Turian off on the left who always had something to say no matter how well I managed to do a mission. That being said, I still opted to save them. Yeah, they're less than useful at about everything, but the simple fact is as much as I disliked that Turian, I disliked Udina a hell of alot more. Really, which is worse? A Council that owes you their lives, has Anderson on it, and you save a fair number of other aliens in the process... or a Council of a whole -group- of Udinas, trying to lord over disgruntled alien races? I was miffed as it was that Anderson got to punch him in the face and I didn't. So. Old Council all the way. lol

[Cruel Writer]

Yeah, I also let the council die the first time, because it makes sense. But then I saw that 'human supremacy' nonsense and was like 'bwuh? screw you, reload!'. Because seriously, how is it going to work? The other races hate us! Sure, they would be all flowers and heroes and medals for defeating the Sovereign, but after a few years of Udina douchebaggery it would all fall apart. The others would demand to put their ambassadors on the council and we wouldn't be able to say no, because HELLO TURIANS! WHAT A BIG FLEET YOU HAVE THERE!

And also, think about it. If humans suddenly gained so much power, every other bitplayer (like the Volus, for example) would demand something for themselves too. It would be total chaos and the Alliance would quickly fall apart.



So yeah, I decided to let the council live with Anderson getting a seat. Because he heandbutts Turians. That's diplomacy!



But really, I wish there were some more consequences for that decision. Like maybe seeing three thirds of the human fleet die trying to save those guys and maybe falling a bit out of favour with your human bosses. Something that would keep my Shepard second guessing that decision for the rest of her life. Sigh.

[Behindyounow]

Cruel Writer wrote...

 The others would demand to put their ambassadors on the council and we wouldn't be able to say no, because HELLO TURIANS! WHAT A BIG FLEET YOU HAVE THERE!

Simples. Have the Humans garrison the Citadel, and threaten to unleash the Reapers If they cant have their own way. Once you close the arms of the citadel, its practically indestructable.

Cruel Writer wrote...

And also, think about it. If humans suddenly gained so much power, every other bitplayer (like the Volus, for example) would demand something for themselves too. It would be total chaos and the Alliance would quickly fall apart.

 

Another option would be to offer power to the other non-council races for their allegiance. They were treated like crap by the old council, what could they lose by helping the humans?

[crapmonster13]

For the most part, at least the huge decisions like these ones, I picked what I would logically choose in real life. In this case, let the council die. Or more accurately, choose to ignore them and instead focus everyone's attention on destroying the immediate threat.



In terms of minimizing casualties, it never makes sense to pick a few over the many, especially when those few have hindered any positive course of action you may have been trying to pursue for the bulk of the narrative.

[Cruel Writer]

Behindyounow wrote...

Simples. Have the Humans garrison the Citadel, and threaten to unleash the Reapers If they cant have their own way. Once you close the arms of the citadel, its practically indestructable.

They wouldn't need to attack the Citadel, but the human colonies. Human council would have no choice but to cave in. And unleashing the Reapers? C'mon, even Udina's not that dumb. And if he was, Shepard would go medieval on his ass, even the racist renegade. Human may be all nice and well, but Reapers are a big no-no, no matter what allegiance you are.

Behindyounow wrote...

Another option would be to offer power to the other non-council races for their allegiance. They were treated like crap by the old council, what could they lose by helping the humans?

Yeah, but don't you think something like this would completely destroy the status quo? The economic disturbances, political conflicts, everyone gunning for their own interests... The Alliance works because everyone knows the Big Three can brutalize them into line if necessary. Humans don't have that ability. Maybe they could gain other races' loyalty, but they sure as hell wouldn;t be able to keep it.

No, I still think that human rule wouldn't work in the long run.

[GoldenusG]

I saved the council. Why? Because it was the right thing to do. It maintains galactic stability, builds serious bridges to the council (You can't treat the people who saved your lives like scum. That would be... Rude), and also, it incidentally saves some of the thousands (Millions?) of people who escaped the Citadel in escape pods, based solely on the logic 'kill the Geth of early - less Geth to shoot down pods').

[masterjedirobyn]

I saved the council because I don't let anyone die if there's a chance it can be prevented. Plus, I got a little emotional when you go in to save the council and theasari comes on the comm saying (paraphrase) 'we've got alliance ships coming to the rescue!'. They're so surprised that humans risked themselves for the council, like they thought we wouldn't come. I was glad to prove them wrong.

[da_big_man500]

I weighed that saving the Destiny Ascension was worth the risk.