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[bluebullets]

He could not be sensed as a demon, but the incantation affected him.

 

Wynne also could not be sensed as a spirit.

 

So my logical inferrence is that cole and a demon  merged into one like wynne did with her spirit.

 

but... Would not the demon have surfaced during stress (ie. the final fight?)

 

Is it possible that the demon might be a less demonlike demon, and a more benevolent one? (like the sloth spirit in da:o being a bad spirit, perhaps this is a nicer demon?)

 

At the very end, the demon kills whats his face, and it reads to just me mallicious: not as revenge for rhys, not as anything except to just kill the guy that messed with him. It felt very mallicious to me. Almost like a "i'm slitting your throat for stealing rhys from me," but he never actually tempted him.

 

In addition, in the fade, why would a demon be messing with an already possessed "person" (I'm not sure he is even a person, so further, what would be the point of possessing an already posessed nothing?)

[TheDragonOfWhy]

He's not the messiah He's a very naughty boy.

But really, he's a demon,

[Adanu]

Demonic influence is not the same as being a demon, and in all seriousness, that Litany thing is barely understood. Rhys said it himself that the Circle made many assumptions about the nature of magic.

 

I'm going with Cole is a very confused, very powerful spirit. Unique in the world thus far.

[Lulupab]

The official Inquisition site calls him a spirit.

[TheDragonOfWhy]

Demonic influence is not the same as being a demon, and in all seriousness, that Litany thing is barely understood. Rhys said it himself that the Circle made many assumptions about the nature of magic.
 
I'm going with Cole is a very confused, very powerful spirit. Unique in the world thus far.

And the difference between a Spirit and a Demon is what? Intent? Because my reading of it is "Cole" killed a lot of things as creepy undead guy. He goes out of his way to murder people, seems pretty Demony to me.

[Eudaemonium]

Cole is most likely a demon of something or other (despair, possibly) who is transitioning into a more neutral or positive being (compassion, for example), basically the inverse of what happened with Justice, who became Vengeance. Exactly what he is or isn't may be addressed in Inquisition, since we'll be dealing heavily with the Fade and demons within it. Then again, maybe it won't.

[Adanu]

Intent and power source so far. We don't really understand the Fade either.

[Lulupab]

And the difference between a Spirit and a Demon is what? Intent? Because my reading of it is "Cole" killed a lot of things as creepy undead guy. He goes out of his way to murder people, seems pretty Demony to me.

"Demony" is quite different than being an outright demon. He is fundamentally a spirit who has slipped and done "demony" things.

[Dust]

He is the maker, tainted and lost.   

[Looper128]

I think hes a spirit of compassion, thinking g about how he came to that poor dying mage in the cell (the original Cole) and held his hand until he passed away. A demon could have done something like that but why would it?

[TheDragonOfWhy]

"Demony" is quite different than being an outright demon. He is fundamentally a spirit who has slipped and done "demony" things.

And is that not a Demon then? Spirits and Demons are the same thing in the fade, just separated by points of view and the actions they take. Demons want to interact with the waking would, spirits can't be arsed with all that noise (and rightly so I reckon).

[Lulupab]

I think hes a spirit of compassion, thinking g about how he came to that poor dying mage in the cell (the original Cole) and held his hand until he passed away. A demon could have done something like that but why would it?

That would have make sense if spirits of compassion were not the weakest in spirit power hierarchy. Hope > Faith > Justice > Valor > Compassion.

Cole can be spirit of hope who when slips can become a demon of despair.

[TheDragonOfWhy]

I think hes a spirit of compassion, thinking g about how he came to that poor dying mage in the cell (the original Cole) and held his hand until he passed away. A demon could have done something like that but why would it?

Only got the demons word for that. And you know, he could well be lying.
A demon of deceit. we won't know for sure until we play his compaion quest line. (And if the writing is good, probably not even after that)

[Eudaemonium]

That would have make sense if spirits of compassion were not the weakest in spirit power hierarchy. Hope > Faith > Justice > Valor > Compassion.

Cole can be spirit of hope who when slips can become a demon of despair.

 

I'd actually find it more interesting if it was the other way around, that he was 'originally' a demon of despair who was becoming a spirit of hope.

[Lulupab]

And is that not a Demon then? Spirits and Demons are the same thing in the fade, just separated by points of view and the actions they take. Demons want to interact with the waking would, spirits can't be arsed with all that noise (and rightly so I reckon).

I suppose Cole and Justice/vengeance are in the grey area, with white being spirit and black being demon. Of course I am basing this on chantry's view on fade entities.

[Ignasious]

I havn't personaly read Asunder, but as I've read up on him for inquisistion, I think he is a spirit, that might changed after all his time spent on the mortal plane, and by the mortal he once was.  From what I understand, he could have originaly been a spirit of compasion (saving mages from a fate many say to be worse then death, and his desire to help people that are hurting or in need), but after having joined with mage, he has changed, just like Anders and Justice, but his union seems to be a bit more positive.

 

If he is a demon however, I can't imagine what kind of demon he could have been. The closest I can imagine is a demon of hunger (since the mage starved to death) or a demon of despair (easy feeding, from a young boy, dying alone in a dungeon), but the spirit did console him till the end, so...I doubt that.

[Lulupab]

I'd actually find it more interesting if it was the other way around, that he was 'originally' a demon of despair who was becoming a spirit of hope.

Interesting. Mind you a demon of despair would be naturally stronger than a demon of pride. Faith and Pride are opposite of each other (to believe only in yourself in opposed to believing in others. As David Gailder clarified, a corrupted faith spirit would become pride) So spirit of hope is stronger than spirit of faith therefore its the strongest spirit that exists. A demon of despair would also be the strongest demon.

[Looper128]

That would have make sense if spirits of compassion were not the weakest in spirit power hierarchy. Hope > Faith > Justice > Valor > Compassion.

Cole can be spirit of hope who when slips can become a demon of despair.

 

Its the weakest of the spirits of virtue but far from the weakest of the spirits (wisp for example) In world of thedas volume one it says all spirits are “powerful beings” and Cole never did anything spectacular really.

 

Remember that he had to posses Ryse to kill those mages, it could be so that the killing of those mages made him stronger? It did affect him somehow at least.

[TheDragonOfWhy]

I suppose Cole and Justice/vengeance are in the grey area, with white being spirit and black being demon. Of course I am basing this on chantry's view on fade entities.

That's true, and that's always a mistake to make. I think people may rethink some assumptions once we've chatted with Solas about the Fade. But on the subject of Justice/Vengeance, he did seem to be traveling the road from Spirit to Demon, and who's to say that's a one way road. "Cole" could well be a Demon traveling the same path but in the different direction, heading towards the more "Spirit" point of view. After all he's been in the waking world for a while now, and I think it's safe to say his time here hasn't been what one would call "all that grand"

[Lulupab]

That's true, and that's always a mistake to make. I think people may rethink some assumptions once we've chatted with Solas about the Fade. But on the subject of Justice/Vengeance, he did seem to be traveling the road from Spirit to Demon, and who's to say that's a one way road. "Cole" could well be a Demon traveling the same path but in the different direction, heading towards the more "Spirit" point of view. After all he's been in the waking world for a while now, and I think it's safe to say his time here hasn't been what one would call "all that grand"

 

The real problem is fade entities cannot really function in waking world, there is no need to call the demons when they are simply upholding their name. Even in awakening Justice is like "justice now!!! kill the guilty!!" That is a problematic attitude in the waking world, it doesn't make him any demony.

 

Its the weakest of the spirits of virtue but far from the weakest of the spirits (wisp for example) In world of thedas volume one it says all spirits are “powerful beings” and Cole never did anything spectacular really.

 

Remember that he had to posses Ryse to kill those mages, it could be so that the killing of those mages made him stronger? It did affect him somehow at least.

 

Its soon to tell anyhow, I was just pointing out Cole is quite powerful therefore could possibly be a stronger spirit.

[Looper128]

I'd actually find it more interesting if it was the other way around, that he was 'originally' a demon of despair who was becoming a spirit of hope.

 

Its possible, but why would he have come to the mage to hold his hand until he died and then lost himself, not knowing what he was.

 

He did remember what he was in the end, he did remember there was a Cole and he never spoke about him as he was something he wanted to feed on, he talked out of compassion for the poor mage that died in that cell and out in disgust for the templars that hide their crime.

[Looper128]

Its soon to tell anyhow, I was just pointing out Cole is quite powerful therefore could possibly be a stronger spirit.

 

I don’t think he showed any sign of being a powerful spirit, he was always ragged, scared and in the beginning before he meet Ryse he couldn’t do anything for himself.

[Former_Fiend]

He is not to be trusted.

[Dust]

I don’t think he showed any sign of being a powerful spirit, he was always ragged, scared and in the beginning before he meet Ryse he couldn’t do anything for himself.

He is an invisible ghost killer who can create identities and erase memories,  who can possibly stop him？

 

Well... if he is a demon, with these convenient power he can literally destroy the world you know. 

But why just gave mercy to few desperate mages who were left to rot in the cell? It doesn’t make sense at all.

[TheDragonOfWhy]

I don’t think he showed any sign of being a powerful spirit, he was always ragged, scared and in the beginning before he meet Ryse he couldn’t do anything for himself.

Considering all the undead we face are just corpses with low level spirits in them and all they can do is shuffle forward and groan, "Cole" being able to move around, with grace enough to be an assassiny type rouge, and able to talk and think and stuff means that the Demon/Spirit within must be monumentally powerful.