43 réponses à ce sujet

[Loyal Tevinter]

I've been thinking about this for awhile and there's something I'm confused about. I've been rereading the World of Thedas and in the section on magic it stated that magic can't be used for things like picking apples or cleaning houses. Then in the Tevinter Imperium section of the book, it states that buildings in Tevinter are maintained by magic.

 

In the mage prologue in DAO, an instructor scoffs the idea to the warden that magic couldn't be used to fix his glasses but now in DAI as mages we can use magic to repair bridges.

 

I've very confused by all this and was wondering if someone can clarify for me how magic works when it comes to doing simple tasks.

[TheJediSaint]

I've been thinking about this for awhile and there's something I'm confused about. I've been rereading the World of Thedas and in the section on magic it stated that magic can't be used for things like picking apples or cleaning houses. Then in the Tevinter Imperium section of the book, it states that buildings in Tevinter are maintained by magic.

 

In the mage prolog in DAO, an instructor scoffs the idea to the warden that magic couldn't be used to fix his glasses but now in DAI as mages we can use magic to repair bridges.

 

I've very confused by all this and was wondering if someone can clarify for me how magic works when it comes to doing simple tasks.

Magic can be used to make buildings stronger.  You still need skilled workers to actually put buildings together.

[raging_monkey]

Magic can be used to make buildings stronger.  You still need skilled workers to actually put buildings together.

in DAI appears we can fix brigdes

OT: most magics can do mundane jobs( not building things generally) but they often have drawbacks that make it impractical, else magi would be less hated.

[The Baconer]

I've been thinking about this for awhile and there's something I'm confused about. I've been rereading the World of Thedas and in the section on magic it stated that magic can't be used for things like picking apples or cleaning houses.

 

Ah, and I remember certain people saying that mages would eventually control all labor and crop-growing, if allowed to participate in businesses...

[Gervaise]

Magic can also apparently make large objects fly, or at least float above the ground.     The mage has to concentrate really hard for this to happen but it still appears to contradict what the codex says in DAO about how magic can be used.   There the mage states quite clearly that if you want to get from A to B you have to walk.  

 

May be this new use of magic, to repair bridges, will be explained in DAI.   It could be restricted to the Inquisitor and something to do with their Fade ability.   

 

I think the best way to explain apparently new lore with regard to magic is that codices and even World of Thedas is based on lore that the majority of people in Thedas know about.   So it doesn't mean that something is not possible, just that most mages are not aware of it.    Given the majority of mages have been confined in Circles with magical research limited to what is approved, it is hardly surprising they may not be aware of the extent of magical possibilities.   By contrast in the Tevinter Imperium the mages are free to experiment as they wish and also have a long tradition of magical research.     The strengthening of buildings by magic probably dates back to the time of Ancient Tevinter and they in turn may have got their ideas from the elves.     After all the elves managed to create a series of magical pathways which are neither in the material world or the Fade and that have a bad affect on non elves, so really after that, anything is possible.

[raging_monkey]

Magic can also apparently make large objects fly, or at least float above the ground.     The mage has to concentrate really hard for this to happen but it still appears to contradict what the codex says in DAO about how magic can be used.   There the mage states quite clearly that if you want to get from A to B you have to walk.  
 
May be this new use of magic, to repair bridges, will be explained in DAI.   It could be restricted to the Inquisitor and something to do with their Fade ability.   
 
I think the best way to explain apparently new lore with regard to magic is that codices and even World of Thedas is based on lore that the majority of people in Thedas know about.   So it doesn't mean that something is not possible, just that most mages are not aware of it.    Given the majority of mages have been confined in Circles with magical research limited to what is approved, it is hardly surprising they may not be aware of the extent of magical possibilities.   By contrast in the Tevinter Imperium the mages are free to experiment as they wish and also have a long tradition of magical research.     The strengthening of buildings by magic probably dates back to the time of Ancient Tevinter and they in turn may have got their ideas from the elves.     After all the elves managed to create a series of magical pathways which are neither in the material world or the Fade and that have a bad affect on non elves, so really after that, anything is possible.

explains the teleportations in da2 and Dai

[Loyal Tevinter]

I hadn't considered until now that the impact of the fade could have something to do with repairing bridges. I'm looking forward to reading any codex entries in the new game relating to magic and the fade.

[Lulupab]

The bridge to Minrathous which is the only way into the city has been destroyed a lot of times and has been repaired by magic a lot of times as well.

[Vox Draco]

Would be intersting for a mage-build ... You reach level 5, do you want to spend your skill-point on fireball of doom? Or rather the awesome dust-from-shelves-remover-spell of housecleaning ... of doom?

[Pantalaimon]

Maybe you're bringing a bridge that's there in the Fade into the real world? 

[Master Warder Z_]

Ah, and I remember certain people saying that mages would eventually control all labor and crop-growing, if allowed to participate in businesses...

 

That's a stupid idea.

 

Magic can presumably be used to enrich the fertility of fields but that requires a mastery of the creation school that is rare and furthermore it would require many mages to be preforming such abilities across anything beyond a tiny farmhold.

 

I'm assuming those abilities are fairly taxing and farming on a national scale is an immense endeavor.

[The Ascendant]

Why in the Maker's name would we waste our magic mundane tasks? That's why we have slaves.

[Master Warder Z_]

Why in the Maker's name would we waste our magic mundane tasks? That's why we have slaves.

 

Because not everyone has slaves?

 

I mean even serfs require payment and protection and some form of rights...

 

I mean it becomes a serious chore keeping them happy occasionally.

[Inprea]

That's a stupid idea.

 

Magic can presumably be used to enrich the fertility of fields but that requires a mastery of the creation school that is rare and furthermore it would require many mages to be preforming such abilities across anything beyond a tiny farmhold.

 

I'm assuming those abilities are fairly taxing and farming on a national scale is an immense endeavor.

 

Wouldn't the entropy school serve the farming community better? You could use it to more rapidly break down toxins and other organic material in the ground making it more fertile. If we take into consideration the affects of spells in the game the ability to siphon energy and health from fresh kills would seem to support this ability. Rather then needing to burn the corn shaft or waiting for it to decay slowly you could have a nice pile of mulch ready in minutes given how magic seems to be able to suck the meat off bones.

 

Now one thing I believe could be very useful for the creation tree is the ability to protect your allies from extremes in temperature. If this could be applied to a wide area you could make the land more resistant to doubt by slowing the evaporation of water. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Ah, and I remember certain people saying that mages would eventually control all labor and crop-growing, if allowed to participate in businesses...

Besides the vagueness of the limits of magic (I have a hard time believing a magical automaton can't be a servant), think of the economic angle as the accumulation of capital from competitive advantage.

[Tevinter Soldier]

I've been thinking about this for awhile and there's something I'm confused about. I've been rereading the World of Thedas and in the section on magic it stated that magic can't be used for things like picking apples or cleaning houses. Then in the Tevinter Imperium section of the book, it states that buildings in Tevinter are maintained by magic.

 

In the mage prologue in DAO, an instructor scoffs the idea to the warden that magic couldn't be used to fix his glasses but now in DAI as mages we can use magic to repair bridges.

 

I've very confused by all this and was wondering if someone can clarify for me how magic works when it comes to doing simple tasks.

 

It doesn't say it "cant" be it says it isn't, even uses an example.

Basically it's seen being lazy mages devote their time learning the "big stuff" not wasting their potential learning how to use a duster from across the room.

 

remember magic is physically taxing, so casting a spell to draw the curtains does not save the mages energy, casting spells on mundane task's could actually be more taxing than walking over and doing it manually.

 

So it's not a contradiction that some premises are maintained by magical means, it's just that its unlikely to be a mage casting spells, purhaps runs or enchantments are responsible.   

[Master Warder Z_]

Wouldn't the entropy school serve the farming community better?

 

It isn't mentioned in that context.

 

Creation however is.

[Tevinter Soldier]

It isn't mentioned in that context.

 

Creation however is.

 

You'll never make it as a magister, So short sighted, You maintain your crops with slaves, you then destroy your competitors crops with fireballs, cornering production and driving prices up. 

[Master Warder Z_]

You'll never make it as a magister, So short sighted, You maintain your crops with slaves, you then destroy your competitors crops with fireballs, cornering production and driving prices up. 

 

I honestly doubt anyone in power actually does that in Tevinter.

 

Given its lack of trading partners and resource scarcity, i'd imagine the farming ventures within the Imperium are so heavily guarded it would make most settlements and fortresses look plain, an Army Marches on its stomach as much as it does on its wallet.

 

So no.

 

You good sir would not make it as a Magister, you would be seen as a traitor to the Imperium for weakening the war effort.

[Tevinter Soldier]

I honestly doubt anyone in power actually does that in Tevinter.

 

Given its lack of trading partners and resource scarcity, i'd imagine the farming ventures within the Imperium are so heavily guarded it would make most settlements and fortresses look plain, an Army Marches on its stomach as much as it does on its wallet.

 

So no.

 

You good sir would not make it as a Magister, you would be seen as a traitor to the Imperium for weakening the war effort.

 

one you assume i'd get caught, two i was more thinking a few towns that boarder tevinter destroy their stock right before winter, then send slaves to make an offer after hearing about their "tragedy" 

[The Baconer]

Besides the vagueness of the limits of magic (I have a hard time believing a magical automaton can't be a servant), think of the economic angle as the accumulation of capital from competitive advantage.

 

Naturally, but the magnitude of this is yet to be demonstrated. I can see why it would be a concern, but I find there's little basis in deeming it some kind of "threat" that demands regulation in the form of mage exclusion.

[Vox Draco]

A typical day in a Tevinter household ... ?

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Naturally, but the magnitude of this is yet to be demonstrated. I can see why it would be a concern, but I find there's little basis in deeming it some kind of "threat" that demands regulation in the form of mage exclusion.

 

I don't think anyone has argued that economic competitive advantage alone is the threat that demands regulation in the form of mage exclusion. Competitive advantage is just one of a few structural imbalances that would favor the rise of a mage upper class, and a mage upper class is one of the key elements to enabling a mageocracy, which itself is a requirement for there to be any mage tyranny which is just one of the major concerns behind the Circle system.

 

It's a supporting element of a supporting pillar of a supporting argument for the argument of mage exclusion. It's not meant to justify the system on its own. (Nor should it be expected to.)

 

[The Baconer]

I don't think anyone has argued that economic competitive advantage alone is the threat that demands regulation in the form of mage exclusion. Competitive advantage is just one of a few structural imbalances that would favor the rise of a mage upper class, and a mage upper class is one of the key elements to enabling a mageocracy, which itself is a requirement for there to be any mage tyranny which is just one of the major concerns behind the Circle system.

 

Which in itself is making a remarkable amount of assumptions, first of all being the rise of a mage upper class (as if these didn't already exist in small capacities) as opposed to a proliferation of mages among the wealthy merchant class. We'd also be assuming that whatever forms of tyranny instigated by these wizard merchants would be different from the ones that are already practiced by existing wealthy noblemen and merchants (most notably the Dwarven Merchant's Guild)... or that these people would even be interested in creating a magocracy in the first place.

[Inprea]

Which in itself is making a remarkable amount of assumptions, first of all being the rise of a mage upper class (as if these didn't already exist in small capacities) as opposed to a proliferation of mages among the wealthy merchant class. We'd also be assuming that whatever forms of tyranny instigated by these wizard merchants would be different from the ones that are already practiced by existing wealthy noblemen and merchants (most notably the Dwarven Merchant's Guild)... or that these people would even be interested in creating a magocracy in the first place.

 

Well that and mundanes may simply refuse to buy magic touched crops for fear of some side affect or simply because they're anti-mage.

 

Personally I believe if mages can enhance crop production they should be allowed to. They're plenty of people having trouble feeding themselves to justify the need.