43 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

explains the teleportations in da2 and Dai

There is no teleportation in either game.

[Br3admax]

explains the teleportations in da2 and Dai

There was never teleportation. :\

[LOLandStuff]

Mages would then be more hated because they're stealing jobs from peasants.

[Mistic]

I've been thinking about this for awhile and there's something I'm confused about. I've been rereading the World of Thedas and in the section on magic it stated that magic can't be used for things like picking apples or cleaning houses. Then in the Tevinter Imperium section of the book, it states that buildings in Tevinter are maintained by magic.

 

I think the confusion is just in that statement, not in the rules themselves. What WoT says about mundane tasks and the limits of magic (page 95) is:

 

"Most mages are taught to use magic only when necessary. Just as one would not use a greatsword to chop vegetables, magic is not typically used to pick apples or tidy houses."

 

That doesn't mean it can't be used, just that it's a waste of useful magical energies (after all, you can technically use a greatsword to chop vegetables, can't you?). I can see snobbish Tevinter Magisters showing off by using magic to do menial tasks. Also, when you don't have any other help around, magic might become the only possible solution for a mage to use, even if it isn't cost effective.

[Dean_the_Young]

Which in itself is making a remarkable amount of assumptions, first of all being the rise of a mage upper class (as if these didn't already exist in small capacities) as opposed to a proliferation of mages among the wealthy merchant class. We'd also be assuming that whatever forms of tyranny instigated by these wizard merchants would be different from the ones that are already practiced by existing wealthy noblemen and merchants (most notably the Dwarven Merchant's Guild)... or that these people would even be interested in creating a magocracy in the first place.

 

The assumption that a mage upper class would be distinct from the wealthy merchant class is more or less based on how mages are a distinct and non-subordinate population group in every society they exist in that they aren't deliberately being suppressed by mundanes. While being initially patronized by the wealthy is an obvious early step towards gaining wealth, there's no natural reason it would stop there.

 

As for the nature of magical tyranny, it's hard to dispute that there are methods uniquely available (and uniquely effective) for mage elites that mundane elites can not exercise in the Circle system. Whether a mage elite would use them is irrelevant to whether they could use them, and it's the potential (and history of past abuses) that concerns Thedosians.

 

As for a deliberate accumulation of power... well, when systematic advantages work in your favor, you don't need deliberate effort to gain power. When small groups of mage supremacists already do exist and can conspire to seek it, general intent is irrelevant.

[raging_monkey]

There was never teleportation. :\

There is no teleportation in either game.

So what the duece was the mage enemies doing when they jumped halfway to the otherside of the map. *Actually curious not trying to be snide or snarky*

[The Baconer]

Mages would then be more hated because they're stealing jobs from peasants.

 

Or creating more. At this point, what industries would be replaced or what new ones could be created is all conjecture.

 

 

The assumption that a mage upper class would be distinct from the wealthy merchant class is more or less based on how mages are a distinct and non-subordinate population group in every society they exist in that they aren't deliberately being suppressed by mundanes. While being initially patronized by the wealthy is an obvious early step towards gaining wealth, there's no natural reason it would stop there.

 

But in an environment where power, and the ability to exert it, is derived from monetary wealth and the cultivation of beneficial relationships (as opposed to authority derived from coercive power), the significance of this distinction depends on how their magic is used to amass said wealth.

 

 

As for the nature of magical tyranny, it's hard to dispute that there are methods uniquely available (and uniquely effective) for mage elites that mundane elites can not exercise in the Circle system. Whether a mage elite would use them is irrelevant to whether they could use them, and it's the potential (and history of past abuses) that concerns Thedosians.

 

There are methods that a well-connected investor could access that the raw powers of a mage cannot. Current dynamics of power determine what methods are effective and which ones are not, the Mortalitasi being an excellent example.

 

 

As for a deliberate accumulation of power... well, when systematic advantages work in your favor, you don't need deliberate effort to gain power. When small groups of mage supremacists already do exist and can conspire to seek it, general intent is irrelevant.

 

An intent to create a magocracy differs remarkably in implication from a "deliberate accumulation of power". For example, if city elf or a casteless dwarf were to found a business and strike it rich, are we to naturally assume that their next goal would be the uplifting of their peers -- or rather, to replace the existing ruling body with members of their demographic, even if they stood to gain even more wealth and power by maintaining the very status quo that provides the newfound privileges they enjoy?

 

Intent is hardly irrelevant. That one would even identify as a supremacist of any sort is itself a rather explicit declaration of intent.

[Doominike]

How it works imo, is that magic is basically reality warping but you have to learn how to warp every different thing separately. The basis for that is what the spirit of valor tells you during the Harrowing. He says the everything in the Fade is formed by thought and mages are the only physical beings who can do that outside the Fade

[Lulupab]

There was never teleportation. :\

 

Indeed. Gaider has confirm mages can move very quickly for a short time and DA2 engine didn't allow it so they used blinks aka short teleportationn instead. But outside of gameplay mechanics mages cannot teleport.

[Ieldra]

I've been thinking about this for awhile and there's something I'm confused about. I've been rereading the World of Thedas and in the section on magic it stated that magic can't be used for things like picking apples or cleaning houses. Then in the Tevinter Imperium section of the book, it states that buildings in Tevinter are maintained by magic.

 

In the mage prologue in DAO, an instructor scoffs the idea to the warden that magic couldn't be used to fix his glasses but now in DAI as mages we can use magic to repair bridges.

 

I've very confused by all this and was wondering if someone can clarify for me how magic works when it comes to doing simple tasks.

It makes no sense that magic can't be used for mundane tasks. If I can create fire, I can use it to light up my fireplace. If you have a spell that can draw someone's weapon out of their hands, you can use it to pick apples and generally move things about. Any attempt to make this impossible will only result in convoluted, torturous and plainly artificial lore-bending, or even in outright contradictions.

 

If we don't see that kind of thing, it's either because mages are rare and we aren't shown them doing mundane tasks anyway, because 99% of the time it's not economical, carries additional risk etc.. There can be countless reasons why it's usually not done, but it is not plausible that it's not possible.

[TK514]

Well that and mundanes may simply refuse to buy magic touched crops for fear of some side affect or simply because they're anti-mage.
 
Personally I believe if mages can enhance crop production they should be allowed to. They're plenty of people having trouble feeding themselves to justify the need.

Monsanto appreciates your support.

[EmperorSahlertz]

So what the duece was the mage enemies doing when they jumped halfway to the otherside of the map. *Actually curious not trying to be snide or snarky*

They were travelling extremely fast over short distances.

[Basement Cat]

So what the duece was the mage enemies doing when they jumped halfway to the otherside of the map. *Actually curious not trying to be snide or snarky*

Flash step

[raging_monkey]

Flash step

They were travelling extremely fast over short distances.

ahh i see... very bleach like lol

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

ahh i see... very bleach like lol

Not until the Knight-Enchanters learn how to cast that spell.

[raging_monkey]

Not until the Knight-Enchanters learn how to cast that spell.

we go fade step... so its pretty close

[LonewandererD]

Magic can be used for mundane tasks but consider it as a cost versus reward situation. A mage is faced with either cleaning up a pile of dirty books or raising a bridge, in either case he has to draw mana to cast the spell and depending on their skill may have to focus their attention to that task. Now going through the effort of cleaning up books with magic is like paying a cab to take you to the end of the street. It can be done, nothing says it can't be done but it doesn't need to be done, it would an unneeded waste of time and energy.

 

Now look at repairing the bridge of Minrathous; it is the only land route in and out of a major city so of vital importance. You could call in stonemasons and labourers to do it all and they can get it done but due to physical constraints it will take time, you cannot just simply slap down some wooden planks and call it a day. In this situation it would be completely reasonable to call in several mages to help raise the bridge, if only long enough to allow the labourers to make sure it stays raised. Cost versus reward.

 

As for using magic to hold up buildings, it could be a matter of enchantments which we know doesn't need the continuous presence of a mage or even a mage in general for the enchantment to be applied.

 

-D-