68 réponses à ce sujet

[Tarot Redhand]

Running since  22 August 2014 there is a thread with the same name as this one that has been running in the NwN 2 general discussion area. For whatever reason they have chosen to discus it among themselves instead of asking us why. In order to both correct this imbalance and to get more responses I have created this thread here.

 

Before we go any further I should mention that I have got both fully patched games with all their official expansions sitting on my hard drive and neither is less stable than the other. In other words, when fully patched NwN 2 is no more buggy than NwN.

 

As I have already posted my reasons for not modding NwN 2 in that original thread I will not be repeating myself here. This doesn't however preclude me posting comments sometime in the future.

 

So reasons anyone?

 

TR

[Zwerkules]

Before we go any further I should mention that I have got both fully patched games with all their official expansions sitting on my hard drive and neither is less stable than the other. In other words, when fully patched NwN 2 is no more buggy than NwN.

 

Interesting. Did you ever try to make an area with NWN2? You say it isn't buggy?

For me it has been buggy since the very first version and those bugs haven't been fixed until now.

The weird thing is that a lot of people have no problems with the toolset, while I still have the same problems I had from the start and that is three computers later with different setups and different graphic cards (I had both ATI and NVidia), the only thing they have in common is that none of them had Intel processors.

I still get random and not so random crashes when using the toolset. Some of the wizards always crash the toolset, I don't recall which those were at the moment. There are some weird graphical glitches in the GUI which make it hard to create and paint terrain, but not impossible. I might have lived with that, but not with all those crashes.

 

As for creating custom content for NWN2, well, you need 3dmax for that, gmax is not enough, so unless you're a student or you're willing to sell your firstborn (not that I even have one) to be able to buy that program you're out of luck.

 

I also dislike the extremely blurred textures of NWN2 a lot. That is something that can be changed and I would have done so, if modding NWN2 would ever have been an option.

[Gruftlord]

i'm not a serious modder myself, so take my pov as that of an outsider. nwn2 from what i heard had numerous downsides, some of which have been fixed by now, some didn't.

 

those that did get fixed came a bit too late. the issue of nwn as a modders palyground was, that nwn was at the time well estabilshed with a sparkling community and tons of custom content. nwn2 released without a dm client, was very buggy (nwn was, too at it's time of release. but no longer when nwn 2 was released) and required people to adapt and improve their modding skills.

 

it just didn't gain enough tracktion fast enough. people played the single player campaign and then returned to their NWN PWs (because the nwn 2 PWs were still lacking compared to the established nwn ones). nwn, as far as i can tell has at all times kept double the online player count than nwn2.

 

some of the problems that still persist today are the improved level of required modding skills (though yes, it looks ridiculous compared to modern games and their thriving modding communities. maybe nwn 2 just came at the wrong time, when stuff like real 3d environments and normal maps were above most people's heads). less custom content was produced in terms of 3d assets, and nwn had the easier level setup. you just drop tiles and you have a level. less tech savy people, who none the less were great storytellers would feel more attracted by nwn's system. and they could easily use the assets produced by those with the required tech skills. in nwn 2 you at least have to understand the new 3d ground painting stuff.

 

the graphics: both games are horribly outdated by todays standards. but personally, the graphical level of nwn 2 (and that whole era of early normal mapped games) just looks the worst nowadays. i do in fact believe, that nwn looks better than nwn2. nwn has reached the point, where it just looks oldschool. nwn 2 instead looks like something from deep inside the uncanny valley.

[Tchos]

As for creating custom content for NWN2, well, you need 3dmax for that, gmax is not enough

 

I keep seeing people saying this, and it's not true.

[Grani]

I guess it might be because of the larger playerbase and filebase of NWN. You might say "uh, but that's the result, not the cause", but I believe it's both a cause and a result. A vicious circle.

 

When NWN2 was released, NWN had already been available for quite some time. So it's natural that it had more content (from expansion packs and community effort alike). Thus, NWN was most likely a more popular option for potential module builders.

This, in turn, caused even more content to be released for NWN1. So on and so on...

[Gruftlord]

 oh and another more up to date point: NWN runs on my tablet nowadays, while my gaming rig runs a modded Skyrim in 3d vision (and latelly Wasteland 2).

 

some arguments i geatherd from the NWN2 forum thread:

NWN2 makes it more comlicated to add custom animations, and therefor new creature. surely another part why the custom content stayed smaller compared to NWN.

one convincing point i read in NWN2's favor are enhanced follower/group commands. unfortunatelly, that doesn't convince me in any way nowadays. NWN is only installed for occasional PW gaming. A group system seems like a purelly singleplayer thing (correct me if i'm wrong). and for single player, i have switched to other games long ago (aside from a nostalgia itch every other year, but of course only NWN1 can satisfy that for me).

[kamal_]

Running since  22 August 2014 there is a thread with the same name as this one that has been running in the NwN 2 general discussion area. For whatever reason they have chosen to discus it among themselves instead of asking us why. In order to both correct this imbalance and to get more responses I have created this thread here.
 
Before we go any further I should mention that I have got both fully patched games with all their official expansions sitting on my hard drive and neither is less stable than the other. In other words, when fully patched NwN 2 is no more buggy than NwN.
 
As I have already posted my reasons for not modding NwN 2 in that original thread I will not be repeating myself here. This doesn't however preclude me posting comments sometime in the future.
 
So reasons anyone?
 
TR

The nwn2 thread is here: http://forum.bioware...ers-avoid-nwn2/

[Tchos]

one convincing point i read in NWN2's favor are enhanced follower/group commands. unfortunatelly, that doesn't convince me in any way nowadays. NWN is only installed for occasional PW gaming. A group system seems like a purelly singleplayer thing (correct me if i'm wrong).

 

You're not wrong -- the party system is for single-player.

 

For those who may not know what you're talking about, I'll give more detail about the NWN2 party system.  You control a party of anywhere from 2-6 characters (there's no actual limit in modules, but in the official campaigns it's almost never more than 6).  These are not like henchmen.  At any time, you can click on a companion and become the companion (possessing them), at which point your main PC becomes an AI-controlled companion.  Your point of view shifts to the companion, and you move and act as the companion, with full control of inventory, conversations, feats, abilities, etc.  If your companion is a wizard, you now have a spellbook that you can customise and cast spells from, etc. 

 

You can choose to allow the companions to act through their AI, or you can pause and initiate actions with each companion before unpausing, if you prefer to micromanage their actions.  This system is the same as in Baldur's Gate and the other Infinity Engine games, Dragon Age: Origins, etc.

[Urk]

Electron is an AWESOME toolset and the NWN2 party system IS better. 

If I had unlimited resources and the ability to spend as much time modding as I wanted I would be all over it. But I don't, and in terms of the amount of time I need to invest in a toolset to accomplish a specific goal, Aurora crushes Electron. Everything is just faster in Aurora. There is a price paid in flexibility, for certain, but so far nothing that can't be overcome by creative design or custom content. And this brings us to another of Aurora's significant advantages...

Aurora is easier to create content for (especially in regards to animating models), it's been around longer, and it has a larger dedicated fan base. This means more Custom Content. Almost anything you might want to spruce up a story can not only be quickly and easily be added to the game, there's a VERY high probability that someone has already done it for you. 

Third... In two words...
Rideable mounts. 

Finally... I build for a multiplayer environment, so NWN2's superior henchman system is not a significant advantage. Without giving players the ability to pause the action, which really can't be done in a MP environment, the NWN2 party system becomes pretty much unmanageable. 
 

[kamal_]

Third... In two words...
Rideable mounts.

NWN2 has rideable mounts.

[Urk]

Nice!

Not enough to tip the scales, but NICE!

Can you provide a link that describes implementation? 

[AndarianTD]

I'm not sure I understand the question. What is meant by "Why do NWN modders avoid NWN2?" How is is that we are supposed to be "avoiding" NWN2?

Does the question mean, why do we still mod for NWN instead of modding for NWN2? If we did, then wouldn't we no longer be NWN modders? In that case, doesn't the question become, why haven't we abandoned NWN in favor of NWN2? It comes across as just a bit less friendly when phrased in that way.

 

Now, if the intention is to ask, why is it that some in the NWN community are as hostile as they are toward NWN2, then that's another (and at least more reasonable) question. Since I emphatically don't share that hostility, I'll have to leave it to others who do to comment on. Speaking as a NWN modder, however, the reasons I never switched to NWN2 are as follows.

1) I started my project in NWN1, and changing engines between chapters was a problematic proposition at best. (I floated the idea a number of times, and it was met with considerable hostility on the part of my player base.) My interest in modding was to develop that project, and I had no desire to start a new one just to be able to mod for a new game.

 

2) At the time when I could have considered switching (circa 2007), NWN2 was still too unstable and not mature enough as a platform to do so. It was also extremely impoverished with regard to custom content development, for several reasons (including that it was new, and that NWN2's Granny based design made it very difficult to develop). Since I felt that the project I was working on needed a decent variety of custom content to be done right, I chose to continue working in NWN.

 

3) Development in NWN is faster and easier than in NWN2 (especially when it comes to area modeling, because of NWN's tileset-based design). Since my modding time has always been extremely limited (and practically non-existent nowadays), developing in NWN2 didn't seem to me to be a practical choice given my circumstances.

 

4) Running NWN2 demanded computing and graphics resources that were significantly ahead of its time. Until recent years, these resources weren't standard on most systems, which restricted the player based still further.

Now speaking personally, with the exception of a few features, I think that NWN2's design is superior, and preferable, to NWN's. Leaving aside CC considerations, if I were starting from scratch today and actually had the time to spend modding, I would likely build in NWN2.

 

If I had unlimited resources and the ability to spend as much time modding as I wanted I would be all over it. But I don't, and in terms of the amount of time I need to invest in a toolset to accomplish a specific goal, Aurora crushes Electron. Everything is just faster in Aurora...

Third... In two words...
Rideable mounts.

 

This was a big point for me as well. One of the main things that I wanted for my project (which I did get to do, but which I unfortunately never got to fully exploit) were ridable pegasi.

 

NWN2 has rideable mounts.

 

That's good to hear. When did that become possible? It certainly wasn't the case when I needed it.

[henesua]

The way I think of NWN and NWN2 is that

 

NWN is preferable for making a PW or doing multiplayer

 

and that

 

NWN2 is better for single player modding.

 

this may not actually be true, but it feels like the case to me.

 

For myself, as to why I don't use NWN2, I'm not very interested in modding a single player module. I've partially completed so many that I can't keep count, and I find every time I make any progress I start getting bored and thinking about how to pick apart what I am doing and seeing what it does in multiplayer. I've done that with most of my content. Perhaps its because I've always had a server and could just post my stuff and ask for feedback from players, and thats all I really wanted. Meanwhile if I released a single player module I'd have to maintain it. I'd rather move on to the next fun idea I want to implement or randomly hop on to the server as a DM and catch a player to stab with that fragment of a story I'm too lazy to write down.

 

Maybe there's another reason I'm not excited about NWN2.

 

I started out in this hobby playing with a real game development environment with a real terrain engine and stuff - Unity. Its a ton of work, super flexible, and fun, but a major time suck just to make rudimentary games (and all of my stuff sucks anyway so its hard to motivate myself for that much investment in crappy, partially finished projects. I made this archery game thats so mind numbingly boring that I never even finished it properly). But the point is that there are so many tools out now that are easy to use, that are far more powerful than NWN2, that I don't understand why I'd use it because I find myself constantly frustrated with using the D&D ruleset in a computer game anyway, wanting to work around it, or kill it off, or make it work rather than totally suck which is so damn hard to do in anything but pen and paper. So all that to say that if I was going to seriously make a single player game again, I'd rather start from scratch than bother with NWN2.

 

The base NWN however is so simplistic and easy to do things with despite all its problems (and oh man those issues are legion) its still satisfying to bang out messy AI, tweak art assets, invent new items, new spells, feats, interfaces and so on and just keep going. Even with my limited time, I can still create stuff in it, and not have to think too hard. Whereas if I was working in Unity or NWN2 or JMonkey or something I'd probably never get beyond making a few art assets for it. Thats actually why I came to NWN - to stop working on art - and focus on game play behaviors. And I think ultimately for a while it was a good choice because its so damn easy to mod. Granted if you think outside the box and don't have virusman or acaos's or skywing or paineternal or... yeah all those peoples' skills you'll bang your head against a wall of hardcoding - but even then it forces creative thinking.

 

So yeah, ramble ramble. Totally pointless post. Just my feelings on it. And the real point is that these choices aren't rational so don't over think or worry about why one person chooses an engine to work with. Its a complex mix of things that color people's proclivities.

[rjshae]

I still get random and not so random crashes when using the toolset. Some of the wizards always crash the toolset, I don't recall which those were at the moment. There are some weird graphical glitches in the GUI which make it hard to create and paint terrain, but not impossible. I might have lived with that, but not with all those crashes.

 

Yes there are some lingering bugs with the toolset; mostly minor IMO. The Appearance Wizard is particularly notorious though, although I still use it because I'm familar with the quirks. For the most part people who use the toolset regularly are familiar with the issues and it doesn't pose a significant obstacle.

 

As for creating custom content for NWN2, well, you need 3dmax for that, gmax is not enough, so unless you're a student or you're willing to sell your firstborn (not that I even have one) to be able to buy that program you're out of luck.

 

To the best of my knowledge, this is only true for creating animated models. I use Blender pretty regularly to create custom content (here for example), including porting tilesets fron NWN. Scripts and visual effects typically don't require any special tools.

 

Anyway, I can well understand the reasons given why modders like to stick with NWN. I just prefer working with the capabilities of the NWN2 engine.

[HipMaestro]

I'm not a serious NWN modder by any stretch.  Basically just create custom trainers for a small LAN group of about 30 to 40 players.

 

But I can tell you, having neither touched a toolset prior to NWN nor gotten proficient with object-oriented scripting, I jumped right in with NWN, creating modules that would do pretty much what I needed even with my limited knowledge base.  I still have a deep respect and awe for modders that can solve problems quickly that would take me a very long time by trial and error if solved at all.

 

That said, a few years ago I tried NWN2, first as a player and then moved ahead to try out the toolset to make some simple modules.  IMO the learning curve is just way too steep.  Too bad really, because from what I understand, the rule set is closer to 3.5 which is the version we are using in our PnP meetings and have spent a lot of labor (not me personally, but other members better at modding than I) trying to customize NWN to reflect that D&D version better for on-line (a great portion of the PnP group plays a NWN LAN as well).  The fact remains that a lot of design effort that originates for SP testing eventually will find its way into on-line play so the investment pretty much kills two birds with one stone.

 

The NWN2 community is just as helpful solving problems and recommending scripting strategy as those in the NWN network, but there is just a lot more to learn before one can "solo".  At least, that's been my own experience.

 

So, based on that, the extra time it takes to achieve the same level of familiarity with the NWN2 toolset as the NWN1 means the additional creative investment would need to show an even greater return for making that commitment... to make any economic sense.  Related to that commitment is the relative size of potential users (NWN2 player community) of one's creation and, at the time I was trying to get handy creating NWN2 modules, the NWN community was far larger than that of NWN2.  Fewer users means less impact for time spent developing content.  I suppose the relative size of the respective communities has converged to some degree in the past few years, but it would require repeating learning the few basics I mastered all over again (and I have less patience, less endurance and an attention deficit to deal with today).  Doesn't mean I wouldn't like to try.  Only so many hours in days that are passing faster each time I blink.

[NWN_baba yaga]

I dont realy like NWN2 for a various of reasons (i gave it a honest and serious try back then but no sorry). AND i dont have the time to work with 2 games that are so time consuming. I mean when i focus on a tileset for nwn it´s all i care about and why would i focus on nwn when i also try to build something in nwn2 ? I would work on 2 things but half hearted and that doesnt makes sense for me.

But that i dont like nwn2 in general is the main point. I just dont feel it and I can do almost everything with our game so why to waste my time on part 2 which is nothing like the thing i realy enjoy ?

 

Also the content we have and still can produce for NWN is superior compared to nwn2 imo and aurora is so easy and fast to work with NO i´m not stupid and split my time into "could be good in nwn2" and "i know it´s great with NWN". I know what my thoughts were when nwn2 just gave me frustrations and no joy working with it. I had a little bit of a hard time with nwn also because i was damn angry how someone could f**** up something that could have been NWN+ but no instead they did it completely wrong imo. After that i always kept a huge distance to nwn2!

 

It´s also the thing i can work on nwn in a state of dream. It´s like blind walking in an area you know since you was a little kid. I just love it

But i respect the guys who work with nwn2 for sure because i know it´s not an easy thing and they did great stuff no doubt about it. They just have to accept we are better lol and whatever they try we already did hehehehe! I´m so biased and arrogant when it comes to our diamond of a game i tell you i´m completely immune vs any critics cuz i know no one can kick the throne we are on just a little bit aside...

[Arkalezth]

I'm not sure I understand the question. What is meant by "Why do NWN modders avoid NWN2?" How is is that we are supposed to be "avoiding" NWN2?

I'm not sure of the goal either (or whether there is one at all). I don't think it's meant to "steal" modders for NWN2, but, apparently, there are NWN modders who are willing to move ahead and leave NWN behind, but don't see NWN2 as an option. It all derived from this thread: http://forum.bioware...like-nwn-since/

The OP in that thread asks "why isn't there a game like NWN", and lists his requirements:
 

1: A general purpose roleplaying system integrated in their game mechanics.
2: Toolset and modability support.
3: Multiplayer freedom to DM and host the kind of server for the kind of game you want.

Like I said on the other thread, I'm just a player so I can't give an opinion about modding, and personal preferences for one game or another are perfectly fine, but I can think of at least one game that fits those criteria and which that poster seems to be ignoring. Unless s/he means both NWNs, but then there's another poster that says that NWN2 and its multiplayer was/is a failure because... I'm not sure why (and I happen to absolutely disagree, but whatever). Anyway, Kaldor addresses that on the NWN2 version of this thread.
 
Also, every time a thread like this spawns, there always seem to be some posts that talk about NWN2 as if we were in 2006 (generally speaking, not directed to anyone in particular right here). Well, we aren't. In 2006 I didn't even have a computer that could run NWN2.

That's good to hear. When did that become possible? It certainly wasn't the case when I needed it.

I don't know exactly when, but it's been a while. Here's the mod: http://www.nexusmods...nter2/mods/92/?

That said, maybe it's just me, but I don't see horses as such a big deal (and I play on a server that has them). But I guess some of my reasons to generally prefer NWN2 as a player can be quite silly as well.

[kamal_]

Nice!

Not enough to tip the scales, but NICE!

Can you provide a link that describes implementation?

http://www.nexusmods...nter2/mods/92/?
nwn2 doesn't have the vast variety of mount creatures I see for nwn1 such as all the great creatures draygoth made, but it does have horse mounts. I haven't implemented it myself.

video of it in use on a PW

[Arkalezth]

Yeah, that's the PW I play on. The one in the video is a basic horse, but there's a ride skill and better horses if you have enough ranks on it (better speed,stats, etc.). Mounted combat isn't working properly at the moment, but I've heard it's possible. I don't know the specifics.

It's been ages since I've used mounts on NWN1, so I can't really compare/remember.

[rogueknight333]

It might be more worthwhile to inquire as to why NWN2 modders avoid NWN. Given the clear superiority of the latter, that, rather than the reverse, would seem to be the phenomenon that calls for some sort of explanation. 

 

Since I assume the last sentence will not be taken by all as self-evident, however, I shall proceed to give my own answer to the OP's question.

 

I'm not sure of the goal either (or whether there is one at all). I don't think it's meant to "steal" modders for NWN2, but, apparently, there are NWN modders who are willing to move ahead and leave NWN behind, but don't see NWN2 as an option. It all derived from this thread: http://forum.bioware...like-nwn-since/

 

If that is indeed from whence this discussion is derived, it seems my own contribution to that particular thread may have been overlooked:

 

...The "sweet spot" for a toolset between versatility/potential and ease of use. 

NWN managed to achieve an almost perfect balance between these two. It is relatively easy to learn how to use the NWN toolset, and once learned, one can produce content with it relatively quickly. At the same time, it is versatile enough to enormously modify the type of gaming experience offered for those who wish to do so. Most game toolsets fall short in one or other of these areas: either the toolset is too simple and does not allow one to make anything all that different from the official campaign it is using as a base, or else it requires more technical skills (or simply more time to work with) than the typical amateur would-be modder is likely to have.

For me personally this aspect of NWN is enormously important. If I need to, I can throw together a basic area in the NWN toolset (excluding "meatier" elements like scripts, conversations and encounters) in less than 15 minutes (in fact, I will probably spend a lot more time than that fussing over details, but it is still a relatively quick process). Given that I, one guy working off and on in his spare time, am embarked on the insanely ambitious project of making an RPG campaign that rivals professionally produced ones in size and scope, that kind of ease of use is absolutely vital. Since I also aim to surpass such campaigns in quality (at least as far as my particular tastes as a player are concerned), I also need a toolset sufficiently versatile to alter the way many things work by default, by, for example, creating a more robust ethical system in which all kinds of actions a PC performs can affect alignment. I find it hard to imagine even attempting to do what I am doing with anything other than the NWN toolset...

 

The above was not written with reference to NWN2 in particular, but I expect its relevance to that particular comparison is obvious. I certainly could not say of the NWN2 toolset what I there say about that of NWN. The most fundamental purpose of a toolset like that in either NWN game is to save time, and NWN2's toolset is far too time consuming to achieve it adequately. 

 

...But the point is that there are so many tools out now that are easy to use, that are far more powerful than NWN2, that I don't understand why I'd use it because I find myself constantly frustrated with using the D&D ruleset in a computer game anyway, wanting to work around it, or kill it off, or make it work rather than totally suck which is so damn hard to do in anything but pen and paper. So all that to say that if I was going to seriously make a single player game again, I'd rather start from scratch than bother with NWN2...

 

Indeed, if time is no object why would one not use something like Unity? By comparison with that on the one hand, and NWN's toolset on the other, NWN2's toolset combines the worst of both worlds.

 

Furthermore, while the much-discussed deficiencies of NWN2's toolset are the chief reason I do not take much interest in that particular game, they are not the only one. I also do not much care for the actual gameplay of NWN2. Far too many of the game's systems are ridiculously kludgy and over-complicated. It also demonstrates 3E D&D's feature bloat at its worst: it has a ton of prestige classes, subraces, feats, etc. that appear to have been thrown into the game willy-nilly without any sort of logic or thought to the balancing consequences of doing so. Some of them are absurdly overpowered, others bordering (or more than bordering) on useless. To some extent this problem exists in NWN too, of course, but not to such an extreme. In NWN it is kinda, sort-of possible to balance a module for most of the character types likely to play it, if one is not too perfectionist about doing so. Trying to balance an NWN2 module would be a nightmare.

[NWN_baba yaga]

I can FEEL the anger growing in the tomb of armageDON. Beware my little foe i come terribly when I the overload of dampf have to leave the throne of inSANITY.

 

ps

and the topic is WHY NWN modders avoid nwn2 and not why think otherwise ... but I know that every topic is open to argue all the why nots into it from the opposite . We had that back then and nothing has changed I guess.

 

But joking aside and making a point someone has to show me a "forest" in nwn2 that looks like a forest. And dont tell me that having more high poly trees that look stupid (they arent even trees realy usefull to create a forest) is better as something done for NWN that fits the whole thing. Even the "forest" in oblivion were not forests at all. The trees looked great but the so called "forests" were just dull and uninspiring "landscapes"anyway. So one should compare content in it´s whole context only then you can judge the work correctly. And thats what i mean with superiority which should be clear. A high poly model doesnt means to be good when it´s like an accident. You can also argue that some counter strike maps from mappers where much better then many stuff from today, why ? because they were innovative and stood out in it´s time and still do. But when you have no ability to see things like a hawk from above in it´s complete sense then others come and nitpick on little details only why this rock is so strange looking when the setting is a strange place

I wanted to make that clear because it was not an attack on nwn2´s modders ability to create content or build modules. I know they or you (i dont know you but maybe you ?) did great stuff... i already said that

 

so thanks for accepting my wisdom!

 

And i dont know why the nwn2 guys never challenged themself to create forest content. They just accepted the fact to work with this stuff and ok, then i guess it´s just something we dont really need. Even if forest are one of the greatest things in adventures imo. Not that my pov must matter to anyone else but hey... you know!

[rjshae]

It might be more worthwhile to inquire as to why NWN2 modders avoid NWN. Given the clear superiority of the latter, that, rather than the reverse, would seem to be the phenomenon that calls for some sort of explanation. 

 

Personally I prefer modding NWN2 over NWN for aesthetic reasons, such as smooth shading, better use of shadows, and generally more detailed and realistic models. I just get more emotional satisfaction from seeing a finished model in NWN2.

 

The mass of prior work in NWN doesn't provide an incentive for me to switch because [a] that content is mainly useful to builders and [b] it represents a much worn trail and leaves fewer new areas to explore.

 

*shrug* To each their own.

[Arkalezth]

Stuff about forests.

I don't understand. Are you saying that proper forests cannot be built in NWN2, or that you haven't seen any module that does it properly, or what? And how is NWN1 different in that regard?

I'd say that I've seen "forests that look like forests" in NWN2, but I'm not sure how that is measured.

[NWN_baba yaga]

Feel free to show me a "forest" done with nwn2. And yes, NWN is very different. We have different types of forests created ourself that all feel very unique in it´s own way. We have literally everything created by ourself and are still doing so. And what we have established by doing so gives every builder a very easy, fast and unique way to express his own vision of what the forest should look like without working a whole week on one area with a few different options what other terrain might be interconnected.

 

ps

and before this turns into a little bit of heated debate lets not forget these are two different things. NWN and nwn2 are two completely different kind of games when it comes to art, design and modding in general

[Arkalezth]

I'm not arguing anything and I play both games, so I'm pretty much neutral. I just don't know what you are exactly referring to or what is wrong with forests in NWN2. Just saying that they don't look or feel like forests is quite vague, and I don't know if I can show you a proper forest because I don't know what a "proper forest" is by your standards in the first place.