1071 réponses à ce sujet

[vertigomez]

So I have been thinking and I just remembered that in Dragon Age: Origins, Zevran would tell the warden that he liked both men and women, but that he preferred women.
I have a question and it is directed more to any bisexual member of the BSN that reads it, but if anyone wants to reply, then feel free.
I know that bisexual people find both genders appealing sexually, but do they usually tend to prefer one gender over the other, just like Zevran preferred women?

Plenty do, plenty don't.

Someone once told me in a time of crisis, "Sexuality is not a filing cabinet. It's 3D, not 2D."

[Potato Cat]

So I have been thinking and I just remembered that in Dragon Age: Origins, Zevran would tell the warden that he liked both men and women, but that he preferred women.
I have a question and it is directed more to any bisexual member of the BSN that reads it, but if anyone wants to reply, then feel free.
I know that bisexual people find both genders appealing sexually, but do they usually tend to prefer one gender over the other, just like Zevran preferred women?

I personally find that my preference fluctuates when I'm not in a relationship. So right now, I'm single, and I'm finding that I find more women in my environment attractive than men.

[raging_monkey]

So I have been thinking and I just remembered that in Dragon Age: Origins, Zevran would tell the warden that he liked both men and women, but that he preferred women.
I have a question and it is directed more to any bisexual member of the BSN that reads it, but if anyone wants to reply, then feel free.
I know that bisexual people find both genders appealing sexually, but do they usually tend to prefer one gender over the other, just like Zevran preferred women?

it depends on a whim for me honestly but i often preffer women over men due to finding them slightly more appealing. Both have benefits so i keep my preferences open

[In Exile]

So I have been thinking and I just remembered that in Dragon Age: Origins, Zevran would tell the warden that he liked both men and women, but that he preferred women.
I have a question and it is directed more to any bisexual member of the BSN that reads it, but if anyone wants to reply, then feel free.
I know that bisexual people find both genders appealing sexually, but do they usually tend to prefer one gender over the other, just like Zevran preferred women?

At least for me it's not so much gender as it is body type, look etc. I like things/features that are (somewhar) culturally feminine (at least between men and women). So in that sense I have a pronounced preference.

But labels are difficult. Our culture thinks about sexual attraction in gendered terms, so it needs to come up with labels that fit the preconception.

I prefer to look at my preference as (theoretically) indifference to the dangly parts.

[Br3admax]

Those "dangly parts" are the reason for the differences, you know? Women don't just look a certain way because people want them to, neither do men. 

[In Exile]

Those "dangly parts" are the reason for the differences, you know? Women don't just look a certain way because people want them to, neither do men.

That's not exactly right. The biology of gender is very complicated and talking about genetialia is a cart before the horse issue. It's actually a marked interaction between genes and hormones that produced the dangly parts.

That aside, there's a great deal of variance in built between men and women - height, weight, mass, facial features - it all varies. Especially based on geographic location. There's a huge overlap between a lot of men and women - it's why androgyny is a thing at all.

[Steelcan]

That's not exactly right. The biology of gender is very complicated and talking about genetialia is a cart before the horse issue. It's actually a marked interaction between genes and hormones that produced the dangly parts.

That aside, there's a great deal of variance in built between men and women - height, weight, mass, facial features - it all varies. Especially based on geographic location. There's a huge overlap between a lot of men and women - it's why androgyny is a thing at all.

there aren't any places where women have more testosterone than men or vice versa, some things are just hard-coded

[karushna5]

there aren't any places where women have more testosterone than men or vice versa, some things are just hard-coded

And also, gender presentation is a social construct than any physical one, never mind there are Inter-sex and Trans people that are certainly not the sum of "dangly bits" There are plenty of Trans women who have more testosterone than men. Gender and dangly bits are very separated from each other.

[Stronglav]

I will play female.Cant wait to some female romance  

[Steelcan]

And also, gender presentation is a social construct than any physical one, never mind there are Inter-sex and Trans people that are certainly not the sum of "dangly bits" There are plenty of Trans women who have more testosterone than men. Gender and dangly bits are very separated from each other.

Ever wonder why men are always predominately the warriors in every society?  Sure, there are female warriors in some, but men as warriors is universal, or why women are the ones tasked with maintaining the home?

 

Evolution has selected for those traits, and societies constructed themselves along those lines.  Only once humanity was removed from the struggles of pre-industrial society could such constructs be examined more critically.

 

Gender and dangly bits grew up intertwined and only recently has it been argued they aren't related.

 

 

Note:  I am not condoning or praising such a division

[Br3admax]

That's not exactly right. The biology of gender is very complicated and talking about genetialia is a cart before the horse issue. It's actually a marked interaction between genes and hormones that produced the dangly parts.

Said hormones are produced primarily by these "dangly parts" after development. The initial stages of life, and well over a decade and a half before secondary sex characteristics are even present mean nothing to this discussion, honestly. 

 

 

That aside, there's a great deal of variance in built between men and women - height, weight, mass, facial features - it all varies. Especially based on geographic location. There's a huge overlap between a lot of men and women - it's why androgyny is a thing at all.

There's variation in everything. That's a fact of life, but on the average, the differences between men and women are large. The fact that there can be something doesn't change that men are men and are shaped different than women who are women. At least genetically. These things all tie into gender as much as any social contract you believe is there(not that I'm saying that it doesn't). 

[Reptillius]

Steel unfortunately I was told not to bring up history stuff. 

 

But what I will say is that That is more an issue of Society than it is of Genetic predisposition.  Men as warriors is heavily influenced by our intertwined societies and a need of those societies both modern and ancient to crush ones that go against that flow and possibly destroy their own perceived balances of power.   Society is one of those environmental factors that can help shave evolutionary jumps.  Ostracizing certain traits and practices causing them to be less common.

 

Thedas doesn't seem to have that societal issue for the most part.  Yes there are certain places where they do.  I'm sure the Qun has some fine examples of it and the Chantry is heavily Matriarchial in design actually which is completely opposite of what we typically see.  Also there doesn't seem any predisposition to certain tasks for them like we have.  They also seem to have as many or more female rulers as they do men but they do not rule out the Male rulers either.  We see a fine mix of both sexes so far amongst the bans, rulers, and leadership castes of both and we can argue that those we don't know simply get pre-determined as likely male because of our own male biased society and not theirs.  There are also several leadership types in the game at least that are predominately defined by their role and we hear no real description of their physical attributes.  Such as Warden Commander or First Knight which are completely sexless titles in and of themselves.

[CuriousArtemis]

Thedas doesn't seem to have that societal issue for the most part.  Yes there are certain places where they do.  I'm sure the Qun has some fine examples of it and the Chantry is heavily Matriarchial in design actually which is completely opposite of what we typically see.  Also there doesn't seem any predisposition to certain tasks for them like we have.  They also seem to have as many or more female rulers as they do men but they do not rule out the Male rulers either.  We see a fine mix of both sexes so far amongst the bans, rulers, and leadership castes of both and we can argue that those we don't know simply get pre-determined as likely male because of our own male biased society and not theirs.  There are also several leadership types in the game at least that are predominately defined by their role and we hear no real description of their physical attributes.  Such as Warden Commander or First Knight which are completely sexless titles in and of themselves.

 

Yes but the glaring patriarchal tradition of a wife taking her husband's name still exists, which is kind of odd for such a supposedly matriarchal society.

[Br3admax]

Women can swing axes three times their size in Thedas, because society says they can? Is that what you're arguing? 

[Steelcan]

 

But what I will say is that That is more an issue of Society than it is of Genetic predisposition.  Men as warriors is heavily influenced by our intertwined societies and a need of those societies both modern and ancient to crush ones that go against that flow and possibly destroy their own perceived balances of power.   Society is one of those environmental factors that can help shave evolutionary jumps.  Ostracizing certain traits and practices causing them to be less common.

 

Thedas doesn't seem to have that societal issue for the most part.  Yes there are certain places where they do.  I'm sure the Qun has some fine examples of it and the Chantry is heavily Matriarchial in design actually which is completely opposite of what we typically see.  Also there doesn't seem any predisposition to certain tasks for them like we have.  They also seem to have as many or more female rulers as they do men but they do not rule out the Male rulers either.  We see a fine mix of both sexes so far amongst the bans, rulers, and leadership castes of both and we can argue that those we don't know simply get pre-determined as likely male because of our own male biased society and not theirs.  There are also several leadership types in the game at least that are predominately defined by their role and we hear no real description of their physical attributes.  Such as Warden Commander or First Knight which are completely sexless titles in and of themselves.

So your argument for the universality of men as warriors, is that these societies destroyed ones that differed from them?  Despite no archaeological or historical evidence in support of this? lol

 

Furthermore, evolution is not jump started by society, if anything it is stagnated since most people can expect to reproduce and competition is vastly reduced than in a pre-agricultural state

 

and the rest isn't even remotely relevant

[Reptillius]

BR3AD that's not exactly true.

 

I am male. I am straight.  I don't happen to be into sports at all.  But as for physical characteristics I for a very long time had quite long hair,  A societal determination of what is male and female and not a genetic one by the way,  Because of this long hair and the smaller and lighter physical frame I was regularly mistaken for a girl.  Particularly from behind.  this is even with the fact that I have a more male tone of voice, mannerisms, and way of carrying myself.

 

Male and female is much more about society except on the base level of our genetic predisposition to breed.  It even tends to try and tell us from a very early age what we are supposed to be attracted to in order to help facilitate this base need.  It can easily fail but we tend to be conditioned for most of our lives to follow this structure.  This is what makes women house wives and Men warriors for us.  This base conditioning Has a great deal of affect on these things.

 

To further show some of what I mean.  One of my ex's many people probably would have assumed that she was the "guy" in our relationship.  She was the one of us that was into sports, worked on cars all the time, and would have a beer to relax( I don't drink)  But she was actually very much the "girl" in our relationship (to use gamlen's insult in a more positive manner)  And we were perfectly ok and comfortable with this.  It worked very well.   If life itself hadn't torn us apart we would probably still be living very happily together.  

 

But this one example is not the only time that I have seen this.  I am quite good at cooking. Fairly decent at cleaning.  Self Sufficient can be a nice way to put it. And I've had a few prospective mates who's attitudes towards our relationship changed quite a bit because society ingrained them with this idea that it was their job to cook and clean and take care of me to some extent and they didn't know how to approach the relationship if they weren't needed to do that.  I have used this both to my advantage and detriment quite honestly.  I do like to cook, most particularly when I have somebody I like to share it with, and it's something that I do early on in the relationship.  It also tends to weed out some potential problems in our relationship very quickly and makes them much more about us and not what society tells us we should be in our relationship.

[Br3admax]

BR3AD that's not exactly true.

 

I am male. I am straight.  I don't happen to be into sports at all.  But as for physical characteristics I for a very long time had quite long hair,  

So do I. And? 

 

A societal determination of what is male and female and not a genetic one by the way,  

Your argument seemed to suggest that woman are warriors in Thedas because society didn't determine that they couldn't. 

Because of this long hair and the smaller and lighter physical frame I was regularly mistaken for a girl.  Particularly from behind.  this is even with the fact that I have a more male tone of voice, mannerisms, and way of carrying myself.

You hardly represents men as a whole. That is why people mistake you for a woman. Otherwise, those assumptions wouldn't exist to begin with. People didn't just come up with gender roles on the fly. Such things existed long before "society" did. They are genetic. They were breed for long before humans walked the earth. 

[Who Knows]

I have to say that I was disappointed that Zevran, as a bisexual romance, told the Warden that he preferred women. Who wants to be told that their partner prefers another gender more than yours?

[Reptillius]

Steel actually that's not true.  Competition for mates still goes on constantly.  It has just taken different forms.  Violence and Force against each other still plays a huge part in our society. Even if we've toned down the death rate.  it also doesn't produce as reasonably a chance to procreate as you would like to claim by itself.  The fact that we don't have as many other things killing us off when banded in societies actually has had a greater affect on us.  We as a species always have been and sadly probably always will be attracted to violence.  Men have evolved for violence to some extent to try and impress or force women because of this fact. There are other species that instead use more underhanded means of destroying offspring to try and increase their own chances.  Violence is not exclusive to men by any means.

 

 

And we were told not to bring up history  so your starting an argument bringing up mentions of archeology I'm not going to get into.

[Steelcan]

 

Men have evolved for violence to some extent to try and impress or force women because of this fact

TIL men evolved to be rapists

[Reptillius]

BR3AD actually.  Those assumptions would. We tell men and women how to dress. how to look. how to behave and to some extent what to think to be men or women.

 

Professional for men these days is short neatly trimmed hair, Particular manners of addressing and speaking with others, societally deemed nice clothing of particular types.  The more professional you get the more this leans to a suit and a tie, Pressed and crisp and preferably tailored to your form to some extent.

 

Women are dresses and skirts, particular kinds of shoes, a more varied but still particular kinds of hairstyles, Often some amount of makeup.

 

This is all driven by society.

 

We're more accepting now but it wasn't too long ago that it was considered unattractive and wrong for a woman to say Wear a pair of jeans or a t-shirt.

 

I was mistaken for a female on a simple base societal assumption that I was reminded of regularly. Men simply should not have long hair.  There have been other societies where it was common or even expected for men to have long hair.

 

So you can't argue that gender roles are something that pre-existed society.  They didn't.  They are actually a creation of society.  They are part of societies rules of what is acceptable and they do change over time.

 

Also argueing over a woman holding a two handed sword is evolutionary is pointless.  For being a smaller person I actually have a physically demanding job. I pull pallet and unload trucks all day long.   A job that we seem to think of as a job for men.

 

Computer programming and such. Still seen as typically male despite the number of very talented females in growing numbers in that field.  Because Society says it's a male thing to do.

 

Society is what says whether boys play with swords and girls play with dolls or not as just another example.

[Br3admax]

I just hate how society tells my body to develop. If society weren't here, men and women would look exactly the same. It's not like those traits were selected for long before humans even existed. It's society's fault. 

[Br3admax]

TIL men evolved to be rapists

So you didn't learn anything from hour long video about men being rapist, but you did from some random dude on the internet? 

[karushna5]

Ever wonder why men are always predominately the warriors in every society?  Sure, there are female warriors in some, but men as warriors is universal, or why women are the ones tasked with maintaining the home?
 
Evolution has selected for those traits, and societies constructed themselves along those lines.  Only once humanity was removed from the struggles of pre-industrial society could such constructs be examined more critically.
 
Gender and dangly bits grew up intertwined and only recently has it been argued they aren't related.
 
 
Note:  I am not condoning or praising such a division

You do condone it when you argue for it as most people have in a way that is harmful to many. And the reason men fight back then? Child Birth. When you are not up for fighting for a period of time, and there are few people, those who make babies needed to be out of harms way, especially since death of the mother meant death for the child. Evolutionary Psychology is normally regarded in scientific circles as fairly empty since it assumes an answer and then just tries to fit a process to it. It also completely disregards sociology, and leads to absurd conclusions, as long as the answer ends up being evolution any answer is deemed correct, which has lead many people going backward in regards to social issues. Evolutionary Psycology is also rooted in Racism, Sexism, Homophobia, and has led to genocide. It is proof religion is not needed to use beliefs to subjugate people. In fact it is used to say anything usually related to dogmatic religious views with no proof needed except some form of invented correlation to evolution.

On these forums, people use it to say "gay people are unnatural" and many other things. Also considered pseudo-science by much of the scientific community, used by laymen with only a rudimentary understanding of how evolution works. Gender has changed from culture to culture, and not just with fighting, colors, roles, personalities, dress, all these are part of gender. To boil it all down to testostrone and estrogene is to ignore all social construct of the thing.

[Br3admax]

That is a strawman if I ever did see one.....or several.