1071 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvianus]

I never mentioned enjoyment of gay male sex at all in my response, please read more carefully. 

 

You are not required to enjoy gay male sex to not be homophobic, you are required to not be a squicked out douche bag whenever gay male sexuality gets mentioned or shown in any capacity. 

 

Sorry, I misunderstood and jumped badly on this thread. My bad. I can agree then, if it is about complaining, being a jerk and not wanting gay content in a movie, .I was a bit disturbed by your first lines with  ' avoiding ' gay sex scenes, aka not watching them. 

 

____

 

I can agree that the porn industry can be lesbophobic, made for men, and that there is a lot of objectification from those who watch lesbian porn, etc.

 

What I don't agree with, is the simple idea that any straight man appreciating two hot naked bodies of women in action is automatically also objectification because no men involved in the relationship. That doesn't make much sense to me. The woman doesn't like men and is with another woman ? So what ? Does it prevent straight guys to be attracted to those women in the movie if they are to their appeal ? No. Nothing has changed. It isn 't them that control and choose what they feel. This is the same as finding hot a naked body of a woman in a picture. This is still biology, not cultural fetish.

 

Do you stop being attracted to someone who doesn't want to date you just because she / he isn't attracted to you and will never have sex with you ?

[karushna5]

That is why I said a man being silently turned on is fine. But saying "hot" or "that is so sexy" is very lesbophobic as that is ignoring there are 2 people talking to you that just mentioned a small fact and you are openly objectifying them.

 

I do think it is a fetish, but a common one. there are many men who "don't get" lesbian porn. I had one time at work that my co worker had to explain to my manager about how me being a lesbian is hot, and my manager was just plain homophobic by being plain grossed out. A guy on here said that he didn't used to see the point of lesbian content as it seemed based on a particular fetish many guys have, and he was mocked for not having.

 

Also biology can turn people off the point you are making since many guys are turned off by women, but if it is a fetish it is a common one, and if it isn't i don't really see an issue with a guy being turned on as long as he is discreet about it and realizes the people who he is turned on by are not interested in him, and to be respectful of them by not objectifying their relationship.

[Lumix19]

I don't know whether anyone noticed but there is a codex article in one of the recent DA:I gameplay videos that mentions "Sexuality in Thedas".

 

 

Around 34 minutes

 

"What I find most interesting is that, despite the lack of open discussion on matters of human sexuality, there is commonality to be found on the subject in all Andrastian lands. Typically, one's sexual habits are considered natural and separate from matters of procreation, and only among the nobility, where procreation involves issues of inheritance and the union of powerful families, is it considered of vital importance. Yet, even there, a noble who has done their duty to the family might be allowed to pursue their own sexual..."

 

then it cuts off.

[daveliam]

After reading most of the thread, I do agree that homosexuality is viewed as an oddity in Thedas but not punishable by law or ridiculed by many. The Chantry does not avocate against it.

 

Anyway, also, both feminity and masculinity are social constructs and have nothing to do with being homophobic. The society places alot of set views about how typical males and females should act but it is not at all true for all societies.

 

Gamlen making a girl comment is a social and sexist view that the girl is usually in the passive role in sex. Hakwe being quite manly is typically see as the masculine one because both Anders and Fenris (with all their whinning and brooding and talking about their feelings) are seem as feminine. I do not think Gamlen is homophobic. If he was, he will not be friendly anymore to him, let alone asking him for help.

 

What you are describing is absolutely homophobia.  Homophobia wrapped in sexism and misogyny and heteronormativity. 

 

You are defending Gamlen from accusations of homophobia by trying to say that Anders and Fenris, because they are "whining and brooding" aren't "typical males" and are, somehow, viewed as more feminine than Hawke so therefore, they must be the "girls" in the relationship?  Really?  That's your defense?  You don't see the crazy layers of homophobia and sexism in your statement?

 

I'm married to a man and I've had people ask us which one the "girl" is.  Most of the time, they are doing it in a joking manner, but it's still bullshit and offensive.  Every single time, I respond to them:  "Neither.  We're gay men.  That's the whole point.  There isn't a "girl".   I don't think you understand how gay male relationships work if you think that one of us is "a girl"....."

[Dark Helmet]

Can we use a different title for prejudice against homosexuals?

 

Phobia should only really be used for things people are afraid of.

 

Most of the people who would fall under that title don't fear homosexuals they hate them.

[dantares83]

What you are describing is absolutely homophobia.  Homophobia wrapped in sexism and misogyny and heteronormativity. 

 

You are defending Gamlen from accusations of homophobia by trying to say that Anders and Fenris, because they are "whining and brooding" aren't "typical males" and are, somehow, viewed as more feminine than Hawke so therefore, they must be the "girls" in the relationship?  Really?  That's your defense?  You don't see the crazy layers of homophobia and sexism in your statement?

 

I'm married to a man and I've had people ask us which one the "girl" is.  Most of the time, they are doing it in a joking manner, but it's still bullshit and offensive.  Every single time, I respond to them:  "Neither.  We're gay men.  That's the whole point.  There isn't a "girl".   I don't think you understand how gay male relationships work if you think that one of us is "a girl"....."

No, I never said that being in a gay relationship, one must be the 'girl'. I am just saying it is not necessary homophobic when one say there is a girl/man in a relationship.

 

The reason people said that is because of the unfairness in the society that the majority (which is a man and a woman relationship) rules. Which is why people assume that there is always a dominant male role in any relationships (be it m/m, f/f and even m/f). The dominant is always see as the man because of the social construct of masculinity. This happens even in m/f relationship when people actually said "the wife wears the pants". 

 

Thus, it is a social construct that the dominant role is always perform by the male. So Gamlen saying that Hakwe is the man, while the other is the 'girl' is mainly because of his views that the brooding/whining must be the passive one. 

[daveliam]

No, I never said that being in a gay relationship, one must be the 'girl'. I am just saying it is not necessary homophobic when one say there is a girl/man in a relationship.

 

The reason people said that is because of the unfairness in the society that the majority (which is a man and a woman relationship) rules. Which is why people assume that there is always a dominant male role in any relationships (be it m/m, f/f and even m/f). The dominant is always see as the man because of the social construct of masculinity. This happens even in m/f relationship when people actually said "the wife wears the pants". 

 

Thus, it is a social construct that the dominant role is always perform by the male. So Gamlen saying that Hakwe is the man, while the other is the 'girl' is mainly because of his views that the brooding/whining must be the passive one. 

 

Does Gamlen have the same line for a female Hawke with those same LIs?  Nope.  Gamlen only says that to a gay Hawke and his LIs. 

[Xilizhra]

If I can weigh in as a lesbian? Skipping content, brief content in all of heteronormative culture because it bothers you does not mean you were turned off. In that case all movies would be pornos. The fact is it often makes people uncomfortable on a deeper level. And that level is prejudiced to some degree, it may be something they don't quite get but that is prejudiced, especially since you are gay. That sex scene was made for you, and he wants to skip it, then maybe mention why not skip ALL the sex scenes that you don't find personally arousing. If not, then that is unfair, and he is being homophobic, expecting you to watch yet another sex scene that is not geared towards you, because he can't stand one that is not geared toward him. And that is the issue.

 

The fact that lesbian porn is made for men, and often is highly lesbophobic and has the idea that female sexuality is for men. It is something many lesbians have to deal with, in that many men see nothing wrong with trying to insert themselves on my daily existance. I say I am a lesbian and the nicest, homophobic, statement I get is "that is hot." Imagine, straight guys, if you said you were married, and a guy looked at you lustfully and said "Hot." It's uncomfortable to say the least.

Never mind guys "volunteering" to turn me straight, following us around all day offering to "donate some sperm for your baby", guys act like women sexuality has anything to do with them, and in fact an open invitation. Being silently turned on and accepting 2 lesbians will not be part of your sex life? Sure, I understand, we all got kinks. But lesbian porn itself is lesbophobic, due to being clueless and geared towards men. Nevermind half our representation is a "lesbian" ending up with a guy, even lusting after him. That is Biphobic on top of it, denying their existence once again. There are men who have told me their ambition was to do it with a lesbian, as if that is not the creepiest thing in the entire world, wanting to do it with someone, by definition, who doesn't want to do it with you.

 

People never treat my relationship with my fiance as legitimately as they would treat a man's relationship with her. When she is hit on saying I am with someone gains more respect than her pointing at me and saying we are engaged. And even nice people will look at me or her and say "you just need to find the right man." All of this is compounded on the driving need for many straight men to get off on us, but never support us on any social battles, and in fact actively encourage them to disregard our personhood. I don't think a guy turned on by lesbians is bad, I think lesbian porn aimed at guys giving them the delusion that lesbians, and their sexuality is to viewed by men in a way that completely disregards them as people is very very homophobic, and way too much media does it.

What country do you live in, if I may ask?

[Who Knows]

If it was really just about who was passive vs. active, then he could have actually said those words. But he didn't, he said "the girl" instead. Thus making things homophobic and sexist. That doesn't mean he's an absolutely terrible, irredeemable person, but it's still homophobic and sexist.

[raging_monkey]

Well this got real!

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Does Gamlen have the same line for a female Hawke with those same LIs?  Nope.  Gamlen only says that to a gay Hawke and his LIs. 

I believe Gamlen has a perverted line with regards to Fem!Hawke and Isabella. Guy's kinda problematic, isn't he?

[Steelcan]

 

This is why I stay on these forums

[In Exile]

I think that's bullshit. I don't watch lesban porn, but if in a random movie I see two hot chicks kissing each other, it pleased me, this is 'cultural ' fetish ? Why cultural, exactly ?

Nope, i'm thinking this is biology.

It's like getting turn on if you see a man massage a woman's feet. It's not some inborn thing that's the product of genes - it's a fetish. And despite our sex-phobic culture, there is *nothing* wrong with having a fetish. Fetishes are amazing. They lead to great and unconventional sex. Particular fetishes can be problematic (e.g. from a hygiene or consent POV) but that's not a problem with fetishes generally.

Getting turned on by two women is not biology. It's - as other posters point out - a result of a cultural construct that lesbian women are somehow always supposed to be sexually available for the venerated "ideal" threesome.

[Steelcan]

Getting turned on by two women is not biology. It's - as other posters point out - a result of a cultural construct that lesbian women are somehow always supposed to be sexually available for the venerated "ideal" threesome.

TIL you know why people are attracted to what they are

[Steelcan]

is it really news that Gamlen is piece of sh*t?

[umadcommander]

Getting turned on by two women is not biology. It's - as other posters point out - a result of a cultural construct that lesbian women are somehow always supposed to be sexually available for the venerated "ideal" threesome.

 

fwhahahahaha!

 

you amuse me, speak more

[Dark Helmet]

is it really news that Gamlen is piece of sh*t?

 

Hey now! Gamlen's a pretty cool guy. He doesn't bend over backwards for Leandra and doesn't act like Hawke is the greatest thing since Orlesian cheese.

 

Probably one of the only side characters in DA2 that actually felt like a real person.

[Steelcan]

Hey now! Gamlen's a pretty cool guy. He doesn't bend over backwards for Leandra and doesn't act like Hawke is the greatest thing since Orlesian cheese.

 

Probably one of the only side characters that actually felt like a real person.

he's still an ass

[byne]

Getting turned on by two women is not biology. It's - as other posters point out - a result of a cultural construct that lesbian women are somehow always supposed to be sexually available for the venerated "ideal" threesome.

 

I dont think I've ever watched lesbian porn and thought to myself "Ah yes, they are lesbians, clearly this opens up the door for me to have sex with them."

 

But then again, I'm not an SJW, so my idea of how sexuality works isnt warped to hell and back.

[Dark Helmet]

he's still an ass

 

But a believable ass!

 

That's why he's so likable!

[Br3admax]

So what one finds sexually attractive is only a choice when society approves of it? 

[Vapaa]

But a believable ass!

 

That's why he's so likable!

 

This is indeed why he's so hatable.

 

I want to punch him just as much as the next real-life douchebag.

 

 

Thus, it is a social construct that the dominant role is always perform by the male. So Gamlen saying that Hakwe is the man, while the other is the 'girl' is mainly because of his views that the brooding/whining must be the passive one. 

 

Spoiler

[CuriousArtemis]

To Dave and Karushna, thanks for sharing your stories; I'm shocked people still ask such rude and disgusting questions in this day and age! 

[In Exile]

So what one finds sexually attractive is only a choice when society approves of it?

What one finds attractive isn't a choice - not really. The fact that something is influenced by culture and not genes doesn't somehow make it voluntary.

[Who Knows]

What one finds attractive isn't a choice - not really. The fact that something is influenced by culture and not genes doesn't somehow make it voluntary.

I'm curious, do you think sexual orientation is not influenced by genes?