But I wonder if we'll get any ONS like in DAO. Hopefully they'll be a mix of hetero and homosexual options if so. And hopefully they don't look like Cammen >_> I won't be able to mod that face this time.
That's the way to do representation imo... keep the all bi LI (so you can romance whoever you want!) but have canonically gay and lesbian (and bi) NPCs, some of whom you can only sleep with if you're a guy/girl. Also canonically gay and lesbian NPC couples.
IMO: Isabela's rival romance is more believable than Fenris with pro-mage freedom mage Hawke or the rivalry Merrill romance in general (made even worse if Hawke is pro-templar).
That's the way to do representation imo... keep the all bi LI (so you can romance whoever you want!) but have canonically gay and lesbian (and bi) NPCs, some of whom you can only sleep with if you're a guy/girl. Also canonically gay and lesbian NPC couples.
That's what I wanted from the first place (with gay and lesbian companions) but we got the system we got. Hopefully for the next DA game the ships will be more balanced.
That's what I wanted from the first place (with gay and lesbian companions) but we got the system we got. Hopefully for the next DA game the ships will be more balanced.
Yeah though they probably feel they just can't win at this point. But adding two extra straight dudes was a mistake imo. Just breeds bitterness.
IMO: Isabela's rival romance is more believable than Fenris with pro-mage freedom mage Hawke or the rivalry Merrill romance in general (made even worse if Hawke is pro-templar).
To each their own. I played the latter two enough that to me it works. Mostly it's the personality clash that gets me. Isabela seems to be under the impression that a rival Hawke has to be a hardass and boring because he/she rivaled her. That turned me right off.
You know...that's probably what primarily bothers me. The assumption about my Hawke's character because rivaling Isabela =! being a stick in the mud.
Merill and Fenris' rivalrymances don't make assumptions about your Hawke's character outside of their rivalry cause (Blood Magic and the Eluvian with Merrill and Mages with Fenris) where's Isabela's does.
Yeah though they probably feel they just can't win at this point. But adding two extra straight dudes was a mistake imo. Just breeds bitterness.
Pretty much =/
That's the way to do representation imo... keep the all bi LI (so you can romance whoever you want!) but have canonically gay and lesbian (and bi) NPCs, some of whom you can only sleep with if you're a guy/girl. Also canonically gay and lesbian NPC couples.
I do agree that is the best route. The thing I expect to miss out on, though, is the amount of reference to the genders involved that straight and gay love interests seem to get. Overall I think it's more important for everyone (well, monosexuals, bisexuals and so on get more options by default) to have equal choice, but it may be nice if the romances aren't too copy and paste with either gender.
Mostly because I don't see Isabela romancing someone she finds boring and uptight. So it just struck me as really...odd. That plus the love scene being the same for friendship and rivalry pretty much (and that god awful what about love line) and nope.
Edit: That and the fact that the game seems to assume my rivalmancing Isabela Hawke is boring and uptight to begin with.
Well, I would hope that Anders wouldn't romance a templar shill, or Merrill an overbearing control freak, but none of the LIs seem all that smart about love. It helps that Hawke doesn't ever actually try to control Isabela even on rivalry, however. And Isabela seems annoyed at a rivaled Hawke solely because Hawke somehow makes her look bad, but she avoids trying to phrase it like that.
And where is Hawke boring and uptight?
Aww I guess no cookies for you
I made them with love and care and everything. Oh wells!
There's no need to pretend that we're not longstanding enemies, fear not.
XD watch a playthrough? I prefer the rivalrymances with funny Hawke. Diplo Hawke sounds like a teacher a lot of the time and aggressive Hawke while amusing is a bit high on the douche scale.
I liked em. There were some "huh" moments (mostly as a result of them being too similar to the friendship mance at parts) but they worked for me. Well except isabela's. That rivalrymance I will never understand. Her friendship mance is great. Rivalry is wut.
Enemies? Lol it's a forum. Chill, peeps.
That's strange - the rivalmance totally made sense to me: Hawke is trying to get her on the straight and narrow and by teaching her that she should care for her fellow person.
The Fenris rivalmance always made me uncomfortable.
I don't like Fenris' rivalmance either. I don't even really like his rivalry, but I can't be his friend without flagrantly deceiving him as to my intentions.
To each their own. I played the latter two enough that to me it works. Mostly it's the personality clash that gets me. Isabela seems to be under the impression that a rival Hawke has to be a hardass and boring because he/she rivaled her. That turned me right off.
You know...that's probably what primarily bothers me. The assumption about my Hawke's character because rivaling Isabela =! being a stick in the mud.
Well, I would hope that Anders wouldn't romance a templar shill, or Merrill an overbearing control freak, but none of the LIs seem all that smart about love. It helps that Hawke doesn't ever actually try to control Isabela even on rivalry, however. And Isabela seems annoyed at a rivaled Hawke solely because Hawke somehow makes her look bad, but she avoids trying to phrase it like that.
And where is Hawke boring and uptight?
There's no need to pretend that we're not longstanding enemies, fear not.
To each their own no? Isabela on the other hand...not so much. As for not trying to control Isabela the ship incident can have Hawke make the decision for her. It just happens later than the other LIs.
Isabela calls Hawke as such in the whole saving burning orphanage conversation. (I think it's her act 2 questioning beliefs?). I did it a while ago I just remember being incredibly offputted by it.
*pats* I stuffed some poison ivy in your pack 
That's strange - the rivalmance totally made sense to me: Hawke is trying to get her on the straight and narrow and by teaching her that she should care for her fellow person.
The Fenris rivalmance always made me uncomfortable.
You do the same on the rivalry though and at least her calling you boring doesn't sting as badly then 
I like that about it? It's not perfectly healthy. I don't think it's supposed to be.
Isabella says that, but you prove her wrong with your hilarious repartee. The Act II questioning beliefs conversation (the burning orphanage line) is just absolutely priceless.
I guess my issue was I played either diplo or aggressive Hawke that playthrough then XD I don't remember the response being amusing.
I have a hard time believing Ander's rivalry romance too. The relationships in this game would really have benefitted from more nuance.
To each their own no? Isabela on the other hand...not so much. As for not trying to control Isabela the ship incident can have Hawke make the decision for her. It just happens later than the other LIs.
Isabela calls Hawke as such in the whole saving burning orphanage conversation. (I think it's her act 2 questioning beliefs?). I did it a while ago I just remember being incredibly offputted by it.
*pats* I stuffed some poison ivy in your pack
You do the same on the rivalry though and at least her calling you boring doesn't sting as badly then
I like that about it? It's not perfectly healthy. I don't think it's supposed to be.
I have a hard time believing Ander's rivalry romance too. The relationships in this game would really have benefitted from more nuance.
Agreed. And rivalry was mixed with too many douche canoe options.
I can see some of the douchecanoe options being acceptable (hell some of them were funny and harshly true) but some were just douchey and should've ended the romance.
With Fenris it just felt like I was victimising someone already victimized. I didn't so much mind the unhealthy aspect of (fictional) relationships generally, but when I start to feel a bit predatory I get uncomfortable.
If you keep the rivalry points to just being anti-templar/circle, then I don't see Fenris being victimized particularly. Do you have a specific example? I was put off by how Fenris treated Hawke than the other way around.
With Fenris it just felt like I was victimising someone already victimized. I didn't so much mind the unhealthy aspect of (fictional) relationships generally, but when I start to feel a bit predatory I get uncomfortable.
Hm...I had the impression Fenris would've said something if he wasn't okay with it so I was fine with it. The most odd moment for me was the after Hadriana scene and that can be alleviated a bit with letting Fenris come back and pretty much start it.
If you keep the rivalry points to just being anti-templar/circle, then I don't see Fenris being victimized particularly. Do you have a specific example? I was put off by how Fenris treated Hawke than the other way around.
I saw Anders as the resident abuser. It may be that I romanced Fenris in an aggro Hawke play through, but to me it seemed that Hawke was the one basically pushing him around and twisting his buttons.
It seems probably that you played aggro Hawke. I've seen diplomatic Hawke doing the rivalry romance and s/he doesn't seem to say anything problematic (nothing that friendship Hawke doesn't).
I saw Anders as the resident abuser. It may be that I romanced Fenris in an aggro Hawke play through, but to me it seemed that Hawke was the one basically pushing him around and twisting his buttons.
Aggro Hawke does that to everyone.
Even the friendshipmances.
It's part of Aggro Hawke's charm
(Actually Aggro Hawke in a friendship mance with Fenris is amusing because of their mutual growling).
Aggro Hawke does that to everyone.
Even the friendshipmances.
It's part of Aggro Hawke's charm
(Actually Aggro Hawke in a friendship mance with Fenris is amusing because of their mutual growling).
Aggressive Hawke in a friendship romance with Merrill is actually surprisingly sweet, primarily because she doesn't let Merrill put herself down.
Aggressive Hawke in a friendship romance with Merrill is actually surprisingly sweet, primarily because she doesn't let Merrill put herself down.
Oh that's nice Aggressive Hawke does have soft moments in general but so much of it is douchecanoe it's kind of overpowering XD
To each their own no? Isabela on the other hand...not so much. As for not trying to control Isabela the ship incident can have Hawke make the decision for her. It just happens later than the other LIs.
Isabela calls Hawke as such in the whole saving burning orphanage conversation. (I think it's her act 2 questioning beliefs?). I did it a while ago I just remember being incredibly offputted by it.
I do agree that is the best route. The thing I expect to miss out on, though, is the amount of reference to the genders involved that straight and gay love interests seem to get. Overall I think it's more important for everyone (well, monosexuals, bisexuals and so on get more options by default) to have equal choice, but it may be nice if the romances aren't too copy and paste with either gender.
Hmm I actually prefer to be treated the same no matter what my gender, but I could definitely live with that ^^
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