1071 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

No.  Contrary to what Wikipedia might tell you, the Romans were not the sexually accepting liberals television likes to claim.  While words for "homosexual" versus "heterosexual" may not have existed, a norm (blurry heterosexual, if that makes sense) definitely existed and occasionally was even legally enforced.

 

This is not to take a stance on Thedan views to sexuality.  But I've seen a lot of people idealizing the Romans lately and it's starting to tick off my degree. 

 

 

 

Not exactly.  The Greeks can maybe be described this way, but again, its more complicated than that! 

 

The idea related a great deal more towards the type of sex that you had, and who you had sex with, although there was also a cultural scale of acceptability built in. It's simply that, in brief, Romans didn't quite wrap up sex with the same moral religious connotations that we do, and combined with their more open attitude toward being a top in an M/M relationship, that leads people to see them as more open minded. 

[In Exile]

It kind of felt like characters trying to disparage Seamus for joining the Qun tended to throw up the, "You must be hot for that Qunari!" as an implied insult. It seemed as though the implication was to de-legitimize Seamus' loyalty to Qunari beliefs, assuming that he only ran away with the Qunari for sexual reasons. 

 

But that was just my take on the whole thing. 

 

I think it was romantic, and that Seamus's feelings for Ashaad went beyond friendship. Whether or not they had sex, I think, is besides the point. But that gets into the sliding scale of what people consider to really be an M/M relationship and the way (in our culture, at least) we conflate physical attraction/desire with emotional (potential) attachment. 

[myahele]

I think it only matters if you're you're a noble and anything that can sully you're family reputation will be used against you. But for commoners it won't be too big of a deal.

 

I doubt they hunt and kill homosexuals the same way they do mages.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Not exactly.  The Greeks can maybe be described this way, but again, its more complicated than that! 

 

Of course it's more complicated than that. It's always more complicated than that. If you can break it down in a better way in no more than three sentences, please do enlighten me.

 

True, theres evidence that accusations of homosexuality were used to slander rivals. Romans were a very conservative society.

 

Pretty sure that's not very accurate. There were accusations of being effeminate (e.g. being penetrated by another man), certainly. But it didn't really apply to all homosexual acts. I doubt there were any accusations based on having penetrated one's male slaves.

[vertigomez]

If you play a male DC, Leske will comment that the only way out of Dust Town for you is if you find some nobleman who fancies "casteless boys". And of course there's Branka's relationship with Hespith, though the only reaction we see to that relationship is Oghren's and, uhh... I don't even wanna go there.

I figure the dwarves are in the same boat as the elves. "We're a dying race, we want you to have babies, but we don't care who you're with in the meantime."

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

Hum it is not really about most people being heterosexual, assuming someone preference has some kind of default, is only one side of that.

I was talking more about for example your elven father knowing you are a lesbian and still force you to marry an elven man. Or not wanting to be like "Branka" because she was bisexual or the comments that Oghren has about doing adjustments to his performance in bed, if he knew.

 

Ah, I miss understood what you meant. I didn't know you could be let your city elf father know you were lesbian, or gay for that matter. Could you? Also, producing elven children is a very touchy subject for elves since they can only produce elven children with other elves. If they don't produce elven children in enough numbers, their community will collapse. So whether, you straight or gay, theres going to be a lot of pressure to marry an opposite gender elf and produce elven children.

 

The city elves practice arranged marriages after all, which is its own potential can of worms.

 

As for Oghren, its Oghren, I can't defend what he says. lol

[OctagonalSquare]

Zevran asked you if you were okay with it because a.) he was hitting on you or b.) homosexuality is probably still atypical, even if tolerated, just like in real life. If you ask me, he wasn't asking if you were cool with him being bi; he was asking if you were cool with him flirting with you, regardless of gender.

[wildelight]

Of course it's more complicated than that. It's always more complicated than that. If you can break it down in a better way in no more than three sentences, please do enlighten me.

 

 

Pretty sure that's not very accurate. There were accusations of being effeminate (e.g. being penetrated by another man), certainly. But it doesn't really apply to all homosexual acts. I doubt there were any accusations based on having penetrated one's male slaves.

 You can't! That's why it took me a 20-some page thesis to do it and why I get so bothered when people appear to idealize a very, very flawed mindset.

 

Nero didn't just get  flack from later historians for his sexing-of-Sporus!  It definitely was a scandal way before Suetonius!

 

EDIT: And yes, there are lawsuits dating as far back as the Republic of over-engaging in hanky-panky with male slaves/prostitutes (though the charge is more about the frequency than the act itself).

 

EDIT #2: I now leave my off-topic rant in search of ice cream. 

[Kierro Ren]

Why have 1 when you can have both, kadan?  Buut... as many already said, there's no stigma against s/s except for a few. It's looked on as queer, but not with hatred. At least, it's not exactly public. Unless you're talking about the Qun, which prohibits sex ingeneral, except for likely the Arishok, and a few of his strongest warriors Lt.s.

 

I'll admit, I want a little stigma, especially with the Chantry and Qunari, addressing my Qunari mage and his STB lover Iron Bull  (Dori 2nd playthrough).

[In Exile]

Yeah I just didn't get that feeling from Seamus. It felt like he deeply respected Ashaad, nothing more. I'm not saying his relationship with Ashaad was or was not written as platonic - because I don't know that for a fact. But if they intended for Seamus to exhibit romantic feelings for Ashaad, the writing for that was lost on me. I just didn't see it. 

 

I saw it as him being really enamoured (or enraptured) with Ashaad - someone who was entirely certain of who and what he was in life, something that Saemus was not. 

[Lumix19]

I saw it as him being really enamoured (or enraptured) with Ashaad - someone who was entirely certain of who and what he was in life, something that Saemus was not.

We take from it what we will, I'm pretty sure David Gaider said that their relationship was open to interpretation.

[CuriousArtemis]

I think if Saemus were a young girl instead of a young man, most players would've interpreted her interest in Ashaad as romantic infatuation. But because they're both guys, a lot of people aren't as likely or willing to see it (because it is "other").

[In Exile]

I think if Saemus were a young girl instead of a young man, most players would've interpreted her interest in Ashaad as romantic infatuation. But because they're both guys, a lot of people aren't as likely or willing to see it (because it is "other").

 

Plus, he didn't have a hot iron pry bar with him. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Yeah, I think it's the same. "If I had known Anso would find me a wo/man so capable..." and later, "you're a handsome man/beautiful woman" (?? according to YouTube. I've never romanced Fenris with a female Hawke).

So I think it's less that Fenris is uneasy about flirting with m!Hawke and more that Fenris is uneasy about flirting in general LOL.

edit: ninja'd

 

Yeah I just checked. "Had I known Anso would have found me a woman so capable, I would have looked sooner" is the exact dialogue I think. Although, was he really flirting? I always interpreted it more as Fenris paying Hawke a compliment and Hawke decides whether to take it as a flirt or overreact negatively to it.

[CuriousArtemis]

Plus, he didn't have a hot iron pry bar with him. 

 

What I feel like this is something sexual I'm not getting

[In Exile]

Yeah I just checked. "Had I known Anso would have found me a woman so capable, I would have looked sooner" is the exact dialogue I think. Although, was he really flirting? I always interpreted it more as Fenris paying Hawke a compliment and Hawke decides whether to take it as a flirt or overreact negatively to it.

 

The tone of voice that he says it in, I think, is more than just an innocuous compliment. 

[In Exile]

What I feel like this is something sexual I'm not getting

 

There's a DA:O (troll) conversation between Morrigan and Sten, where she tries to get him to hook up with her (basically), and Sten trolls her by saying that she needs a helmet and a hot iron pry bar (because he might "try to nuzzle") to safely have sex with him. 

[HTTP 404]

Fantasy world norms tend to mimic our real world norms but inconsistencies lie when multiple writers are involved.  Some writers like Middle Ages norms and I think that gets lost in the writing room.  I think it's important to be on the same page.  Some fantasy world mimics the Middle Ages like Game of Thrones and that is pretty consistent throughout the world (so far) and within the cultures of those worlds. 

 

Even Middle Ages norms can also involve other cultures besides European values.  Pacific Islanders have been okay with sexual orientation before the European culture found them.

[CuriousArtemis]

Yeah I just checked. "Had I known Anso would have found me a woman so capable, I would have looked sooner" is the exact dialogue I think. Although, was he really flirting? I always interpreted it more as Fenris paying Hawke a compliment and Hawke decides whether to take it as a flirt or overreact negatively to it.

 

The tone of voice that he says it in, I think, is more than just an innocuous compliment. 

 

Definitely subject to interpretation! I've probably romanced him *INSERT EMBARRASSINGLY HIGH NUMBER* times and never interpreted that line as flirtatious. More like... He does like Hawke, but he's not aware of liking Hawke just yet. So he pays him (and okay her) a compliment, but doesn't realize there's more to it. But he's not intentionally flirting. Because I don't see him intentionally flirting.

[CuriousArtemis]

There's a DA:O (troll) conversation between Morrigan and Sten, where she tries to get him to hook up with her (basically), and Sten trolls her by saying that she needs a helmet and a hot iron pry bar (because he might "try to nuzzle") to safely have sex with him. 

 

Ohh the infamous Sten/Morrigan conversation Well Ashaad and Saemus probably just cuddled anyway... BUT NEVER CODDLED, NEVER.

[Ryzaki]

Yeah I just checked. "Had I known Anso would have found me a woman so capable, I would have looked sooner" is the exact dialogue I think. Although, was he really flirting? I always interpreted it more as Fenris paying Hawke a compliment and Hawke decides whether to take it as a flirt or overreact negatively to it.

 

same.

 

Just a really awkward sounding compliment (which is probably why he feels so foot in mouth if you turn him down from it XD) I've done those a lot myself >_>

[Mihura]

Ah, I miss understood what you meant. I didn't know you could be let your city elf father know you were lesbian, or gay for that matter. Could you? Also, producing elven children is a very touchy subject for elves since they can only produce elven children with other elves. If they don't produce elven children in enough numbers, their community will collapse. So whether, you straight or gay, theres going to be a lot of pressure to marry an opposite gender elf and produce elven children.

 

The city elves practice arranged marriages after all, which is its own potential can of worms.

 

As for Oghren, its Oghren, I can't defend what he says. lol

 

That is my point you do not even get the option, it is assume that marrying some guy is your duty. You can express anger but that is it, so ya heteronormative.