1071 réponses à ce sujet

[Adam Revlan]

When does Gamlen utter homophobic remarks exactly? I played as a male Hawke that romanced Fenris and I do not remember Gamlen commenting on the relationship in a negative way.

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

That is my point you do not even get the option, it is assume that marrying some guy is your duty. You can express anger but that is it, so ya heteronormative. 

 

Well, you don't get the option to stay single either so...I'm not sure what the name for that would be.

[In Exile]

When does Gamlen utter homophobic remarks exactly? I played as a male Hawke that romanced Fenris and I do not remember Gamlen commenting on the relationship in a negative way.

 

I can't remember the exact comment but basically he assumes that Fenris is the bottom and makes some disparaging remarks otherwise. He's also pretty brutal about an F/F romance with Isabella. 

[devSin]

When does Gamlen utter homophobic remarks exactly? I played as a male Hawke that romanced Fenris and I do not remember Gamlen commenting on the relationship in a negative way.

He says that he can guess which one of you is the "girl".

I never had any issue with that line. It's just Gamlen being Gamlen. Even mom makes racist comments, so I'm not sure why everybody here is shocked.

[In Exile]

He says that he can guess which one of you is the "girl".

I never had any issue with that line. It's just Gamlen being Gamlen. Even mom makes racist comments, so I'm not sure why everybody here is shocked.

 

Gamlen's problem is that he's not imaginative enough. Which probably explains why he's still single. Well, aside from his personality. And looks. And hygiene. 

[Adam Revlan]

He says that he can guess which one of you is the "girl".

I never had any issue with that line. It's just Gamlen being Gamlen. Even mom makes racist comments, so I'm not sure why everybody here is shocked.

Gamlen guessed wrong where my Hawke was concerned.

 

But you are right, it does not feel that insulting, Gamlen was just being his usual blunt self.

[vertigomez]

When does Gamlen utter homophobic remarks exactly? I played as a male Hawke that romanced Fenris and I do not remember Gamlen commenting on the relationship in a negative way.

"So, you're into... elves, huh? Guess I don't have to ask which one of you's the girl."

He also makes the "girl" comment about Anders and will perv on f!Hawke x Isabela.

[devSin]

Gamlen guessed wrong where my Hawke was concerned.

I'm not sure the gibe is a reference to sexual position so much as to who is the dominant partner in the relationship.

It's fine if you believe the two correlate, but I don't think the comment should necessarily be interpreted that way. It's more sexist than homophobic (because the "girl" is the passive one, and the "man" is in charge), and it's wholly racist in this context.

[In Exile]

I'm not sure the gibe is a reference to sexual position so much as to who is the dominant partner in the relationship.

It's fine if you believe the two correlate, but I don't think the comment should necessarily be interpreted that way. It's more sexist than homophobic (because the "girl" is the passive one, and the "man" is in charge), and it's wholly racist in this context.

 

I read it to be exclusively about sex. I mean, it's Gamlen. I don't think he's smart enough to make a demeaning comment about power dynamics. 

[Adam Revlan]

I'm not sure the gibe is a reference to sexual position so much as to who is the dominant partner in the relationship.

It's fine if you believe the two correlate, but I don't think the comment should necessarily be interpreted that way. It's more sexist than homophobic (because the "girl" is the passive one, and the "man" is in charge), and it's wholly racist in this context.

For me personally there was no dominant partner, they supported each other and did not play a certain role, there was no "boy" or "girl".

But you are correct, it seems more sexist than homophobic.

[devSin]

I read it to be exclusively about sex. I mean, it's Gamlen. I don't think he's smart enough to make a demeaning comment about power dynamics.

Gamlen's not stupid. He's just ignorant, abrasive, and a pathetic, self-loathing, lonely old man.

As a comment about sex, I don't think it would have any weight. It's completely irrelevant, unless we're weighing the relative merits of sexual positions. But remarking who is the more dominant partner (and presuming the elf to be the submissive—classy, Gamlen!) seems right on point.

I think if you look at it from the point of who is the "man", it makes it clearer. "Who wears the pants in this relationship" is not a comment about the sexual proclivity of a couple (unless there's ample supporting context for it).

[vertigomez]

I assumed that line was meant to be more racist than anything. But honestly, it's pretty offensive all around... ahhh, Gamlen.

[CuriousArtemis]

I read it to be exclusively about sex. I mean, it's Gamlen. I don't think he's smart enough to make a demeaning comment about power dynamics. 

 

ROFL Yeah, too right. That Gamlen...

 

Hmm, Hawke was definitely the giver in that relationship (as per my headcanon). I mean that in the emotional sense. He took care of Fenris, who was, well, rather broken. The poor boy needed cuddles, and lots of them (even if it took three years for him to accept said cuddles). So I think Hawke definitely supported Fenris, more so than the other way around. Which isn't to say that Fenris was super needy and never gave back; he did his best to support Hawke... for example, when Leandra died, he was there for him. (As are all the LIs) The awkward attempt he makes to comfort Hawke is both sad and sweet. 

 

As for what they do in the bedroom... seriously, who even cares?? In fanfic I like Hawke x Fenris instead of the other way around, but that's fanfic, and to be honest, long drawn out sex scenes bore me to tears anyway. I'd rather read about their relationship as opposed to their sex life. I imagine if it's a healthy relationship, there's lots of giving and receiving, and so long as each person is comfortable and happy, then yay.

 

Gamlen can suck on a whallop mallet lol

[In Exile]

Gamlen's not stupid. He's just ignorant, abrasive, and a pathetic, self-loathing, lonely old man.

As a comment about sex, I don't think it would have any weight. It's completely irrelevant, unless we're weighing the relative merits of sexual positions. But remarking who is the more dominant partner (and presuming the elf to be the submissive—classy, Gamlen!) seems right on point.

I think if you look at it from the point of who is the "man", it makes it clearer. "Who wears the pants in this relationship" is not a comment about the sexual proclivity of a couple.

 

Point taken about Gamlen. That being said, I do think a comment about power dynamics is beyond him.

 

And sex can be very much about power dynamics - it just depends on the kind of sex you're having. I think part of the perception issue with the statement is the general perception of the listener. 

[devSin]

Point taken about Gamlen. That being said, I do think a comment about power dynamics is beyond him.
 
And sex can be very much about power dynamics - it just depends on the kind of sex you're having. I think part of the perception issue with the statement is the general perception of the listener.

Certainly, if you think relationship dynamics correlate with sexual positions, that can affect your interpretation. I noted such in my original reply.

I don't read the comment that way, because I don't think suggesting who takes what position in the bedroom is a meaningful distinction to make when trying to disparage somebody, and I find it hard to think that's what the writer here intended (I mean, this is the DA team after all). But it makes perfect sense to me as Gamlen being an utter tool by mocking your relationship (as well as a complete racist, if your partner is Fenris).

[CuriousArtemis]

Come on, people. The "girl" in the relationship is the one who gets a thingie put in him/her. That's how Gamlen's simple, rotten little mind works, and that's all there is to it.

 

And yeah it's definite proof of both sexism and homophobia (homophobia only exists because of sexism anyway), so it's weird in this supposedly "happy happy joy joy" version of Thedas they've been trying to sell us recently It's like someone else said: Thedas is a non-homophobic and non-sexist world written by people who are entrenched in homophobia and sexism. It can be hard to cleanse that stuff from your writing.

[Adam Revlan]

Come on, people. The "girl" in the relationship is the one who gets a thingie put in him/her. That's how Gamlen's simple, rotten little mind works, and that's all there is to it.

 

And yeah it's definite proof of both sexism and homophobia (homophobia only exists because of sexism anyway), so it's weird in this supposedly "happy happy joy joy" version of Thedas they've been trying to sell us recently It's like someone else said: Thedas is a non-homophobic and non-sexist world written by people who are entrenched in homophobia and sexism. It can be hard to cleanse that stuff from your writing.

Considering how in some parts of the world homosexuality is a punishable offense and women are treated as second class citizens, it makes sense that no matter how much the writers try to take that out of Thedas, it will still appear in their writing subconsciously.

[thats1evildude]

I think if Saemus were a young girl instead of a young man, most players would've interpreted her interest in Ashaad as romantic infatuation. But because they're both guys, a lot of people aren't as likely or willing to see it (because it is "other").

I have a hard time seeing it because Ashaad was a bloody qunari. As I said earlier, the qunari don't "do" romance.

"But, but ... Iron Bull!" Yeah, the broken qunari who was reassigned to the lands of the bas to get him the **** away from other followers of the Qun. What about him?

[BioWareM0d13]

In Thedas sex is as it should be, like in roman times. There was no lesbian, gay or straight - sex was simply sex (as it really is in its natural state).
 

 

That's a bit of a myth actually. 

 

The ancient Roman view on sexuality was often quite different and complicated from a modern Judeo-Christian perspective, but they weren't exactly free love hippies either. And in many respects they were not models of tolerance.

 

As far as homosexuality goes, the Romans didn't care too much about it so long as it was primarily sexual, with a social inferior, and the Roman man wasn't on the receiving end. Whether with women or men, Roman men were expected to be the 'top' basically and penetration was only for women, foreigners, and slaves. A Roman man who had been on the receiving end would be considered effeminate, and any behavior in male citizens perceived as effeminate was considered taboo and denounced.  Accusations of male aristocrats 'having played a woman's role,' whether true or not, was a frequent form of mudslinging in the Roman political arena. The Romans also tended to be less tolerant than the Greeks of romantic love between men, which they also viewed as being effeminate. The dictator Sulla caused a scandal by publicly declaring love for a Greek actor that had he had been in a relationship with for years. Homosexual relationships with fellow soldiers was also outlawed in the army during different periods.

 

Though women in the Roman Empire enjoyed a great deal more freedom than in many other regions in antiquity, the Romans were still a patriarchal culture, and women were held to stricter standards than men. Unlike men women were expected to express their sexuality solely within the confines of marriage. Of course in practice that quite often wasn't the case, and women often took lovers just as men did, but a woman having sex with anyone (male or female) she wasn't married to carried some risk of scandal.

 

Hypersexuality was also viewed as a weakness, in men as well as women. A notorious womanizer like Julius Caesar for example, would have been viewed as a man who couldn't control his passions, and thus (ironically) from the Roman view effeminate.

[Ananka]

"So, you're into... elves, huh? Guess I don't have to ask which one of you's the girl."

He also makes the "girl" comment about Anders and will perv on f!Hawke x Isabela.

 

I've also gotten the girl comment with my Femhawke who was romancing Fenris. A bug, probably, since it's not supposed to happen with a ladyHawke, but still pretty weird.

 

No, Gamlen, you don't have to ask which one of us is the girl. Maybe it's the one who is a girl.

[TheTurtle]

Wait what does Gamlen say about Isabela and FemHawke?

[Lumix19]

I have a hard time seeing it because Ashaad was a bloody qunari. As I said earlier, the qunari don't "do" romance.

"But, but ... Iron Bull!" Yeah, the broken qunari who was reassigned to the lands of the bas to get him the **** away from other followers of the Qun. What about him?

Qunari aren't emotionless, they have romantic relationships and feelings. They just don't have sex outside of when it is demanded of them, it's different. It's perfectly possible Ashaad held feelings for Seamus though I see the relationship as more one-sided.

[Churchader]

Only because the world (thedas, except Qunari) in general doest care too much about homosexuality doesnt mean that there are no individuals who are homophobic (Gamlen).

[Fredward]

I'd expect a certain level of homophobia from some groups, like the Dalish and perhaps elves in general since they're a dying breed, the Qunari if a male refuses to perform his baby-making duty, Tevinter if a mage refuses to make more mage babies and the dwarves who seem to have some trouble with baby-making in general. Oh and the human nobility if an heir is not produced.

 

But you'll notice that the concern with these groups are less based on things like morality and more tangible stuff like duty and survival. I imagine that homosexuality might be seen as slightly selfish rather than some kind of sin, the emphasis isn't on the same sex love but rather on the larger implications for society. Of course just because homophobia might not exist like it does here doesn't mean people like Gamlen won't either, you always get people like that. They shouldn't be used as a representative sample.

[Adam Revlan]

Poor Fenris.

Wait a minute, has it been confirmed that Danarius abused Fenris sexually?