1071 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I should clarify that I'm only trying to figure out why Bioware hasn't made a clear declaration of marriage equality in-game when s/s relationships don't seem that unusual, not that I agree with the representation thus far. An example would be Wade and Herren. They aren't stated to be married (unless that was clarified somewhere and I missed it?) but many people do see them as married. A hetero Warden can marry in one outcome of DAO but a gay or lesbian Warden can't. So far, the only reason we've been given for this is that marriages are political in Thedas as there's a need for heirs. I can accept this for important officials, such as Alistair, even if I don't agree with it. But it makes no sense to me for the usual people. At first I thought it was perhaps corporate fear that kept Bioware from allowing s/s marriages but as Imano de Tafalla pointed out EA has shown their support of the LGBTQ community so it seems unlikely that's the reason. So if that's not it, then what? Have they stayed away from due to foreign consumer bases? Or just haven't considered it? (Which I find unlikely) Then I thought: perhaps think thought heavily implying s/s marriage without stating it directly was a good workaround. It's not a happy medium I like but I do wonder if they thought it would do for the time being.

I hate this picking and choosing of who and what will get represented. Bisexual, Heterosexual, Homosexual, and Pansexual orientations get stuff, but every other orientation needs to make way for "real representation". People who are fine with pre-marital sex get what they want, while those who aren't fine with it have to avoid romances entirely or at least can't make characters they like. People who are okay with drinking or other drug use get it, but those who abstain have to have their characters partake. Blacks and whites get to have their races in games, but people of other races can't be added because reasons. It just gets so frustrating after a while. 

[SamaraDraven]

Meh, the ship has already sailed with the inclusion of gay options to begin with. And EA is relatively gay friendly compared to other companies.

 

No. "Gay friendly" isn't the same as equal. If they're going to represent hetero marriages, then s/s marriages should be represented as well. We're not yet to a point where a couple is assumed to be married regardless of gender. To leave people like Wade and Herren open to interpretation is an example of this.  To omit a male character's casual use of "My husband..." or a female character's response with "My wife" such as what hetero couple's can use; for fear of backlash or because of bias isn't right.

[Who Knows]

No. "Gay friendly" isn't the same as equal. If they're going to represent hetero marriages, then s/s marriages should be represented as well. We're not yet to a point where a couple is assumed to be married regardless of gender. To leave people like Wade and Herren open to interpretation is an example of this.  To omit a male character's casual use of "My husband..." or a female character's response with "My wife" such as what hetero couple's can use; for fear of backlash or because of bias isn't right.

My point is that I doubt the exclusion of same sex marriages is due to fear of backlash, given that EA & Bioware games HAVE included same sex married couples before.

[In Exile]

This, I don't even desire this in life, not too pushed about it in the DA universe, just a big meh to me.

 

I think it's a good social statement for Bioware to make, but personally speaking, nooo way will I ever get married. 

[SamaraDraven]

I hate this picking and choosing of who and what will get represented. Bisexual, Heterosexual, Homosexual, and Pansexual get stuff, but every other orientation needs to make way for "real representation". People who are fine with pre-marital sex get what they want, while those who aren't fine with it have to avoid romances entirely or at least can't make characters they like. People who are okay with drinking or other drug use get it, but those who abstain have to have their characters partake. Blacks and whites get to have their races in games, but we can't add people of other races because reasons. It just gets so frustrating after a while. 

 

Yeah... it is frustrating. :/ First and foremost, EA and Bioware are companies that want to make profit. Including all possibilities does take resources and time. The devs making the games may doing it out of a passion for games but the companies that bankroll these games are still looking to profit, on a deadline, and are only going to let devs go so far. Those companies want to cater to their biggest market. As society has changed so too has what these companies will accept in the projects they allow - that's why we've made any progress at all. Their consumer base changed to an extent so they changed. Until society at large changes enough to reflect all orientations more than it does, those companies aren't going to further this evolution. There's not enough profit in it. It's wrong but it's how most companies think. Bioware and EA are pushing the limits as it is and I'm glad for it.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

I hate this picking and choosing of who and what will get represented. Bisexual, Heterosexual, Homosexual, and Pansexual get stuff, but every other orientation needs to make way for "real representation". People who are fine with pre-marital sex get what they want, while those who aren't fine with it have to avoid romances entirely or at least can't make characters they like. People who are okay with drinking or other drug use get it, but those who abstain have to have their characters partake. Blacks and whites get to have their races in games, but we can't add people of other races because reasons. It just gets so frustrating after a while. 

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Why would anyone want to willingly roleplay an ignorant, superstitious and brainwashed character from the dark ages or a weak and feeble-minded character that acts like a slave to illogical and meaningless societal and theological rules? Unless I completely missed your point here. Did you mean to state that there will always be someone unhappy about something? English isnt my native language so sometimes jokes, sarcasm and shrouded arguments fly straight over my head.

[puppyofwar]

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Why would anyone want to willingly roleplay an ignorant, superstitious and brainwashed character from the dark ages or a weak and feeble-minded character that acts like a slave to illogical and meaningless societal and theological rules? Unless I completely missed your point here. Did you mean to state that there will always be someone unhappy about something? English isnt my native language so sometimes jokes, sarcasm and shrouded arguments fly straight over my head.

Ummm...because our characters was supposed to came from those "dark ages" and "theological society"? You know, that's kind of the point of role-playing?Just like why people RP evil or dickish characters?

[TheEternalStudent]

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Why would anyone want to willingly roleplay an ignorant, superstitious and brainwashed character from the dark ages or a weak and feeble-minded character that acts like a slave to illogical and meaningless societal and theological rules? Unless I completely missed your point here. Did you mean to state that there will always be someone unhappy about something? English isnt my native language so sometimes jokes, sarcasm and shrouded arguments fly straight over my head.

A) Wanting to wait until marriage before having sexual relations isn't ignorant, or superstitious, it's antiquated, but hardly objectionable. or if you play an asexual character, who still falls in love with another character you're kinda screwed. Or rather, not. Though it should be noted sex wasn't a necessary part of Origins' romances, or Sebastian's 'romance' in II. 

It's fun to roleplay someone who actually feels like a part of the world they're in. If the Chantry frowns (if not actually forbidding) pre-marital intercourse, having a devout Chantry follower would not want to engage in said acts.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yeah... it is frustrating. :/ First and foremost, EA and Bioware are companies that want to make profit. Including all possibilities does take resources and time. The devs making the games may doing it out of a passion for games but the companies that bankroll these games are still looking to profit, on a deadline, and are only going to let devs go so far. Those companies want to cater to their biggest market. As society has changed so too has what these companies will accept in the projects they allow - that's why we've made any progress at all. Their consumer base changed to an extent so they changed. Until society at large changes enough to reflect all orientations more than it does, those companies aren't going to further this evolution. There's not enough profit in it. It's wrong but it's how most companies think. Bioware and EA are pushing the limits as it is and I'm glad for it.

So until society changes, I'm stuck with absolutely nothing in terms of representation. Joy. 

However, they go with the minority in a couple of the things I listed so it's not just them catering to the biggest market.

 

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Why would anyone want to willingly roleplay an ignorant, superstitious and brainwashed character from the dark ages or a weak and feeble-minded character that acts like a slave to illogical and meaningless societal and theological rules? Unless I completely missed your point here. Did you mean to state that there will always be someone unhappy about something? English isnt my native language so sometimes jokes, sarcasm and shrouded arguments fly straight over my head.

A better question is: Why would anyone want to willingly personally insult people on a forum where doing so is against the Site Rules? 

 

But ignoring your insults, why should people have to do something they don't agree with? If they should just deal with it, the same can be said to anything. To relate to this thread, those who for example want same sex content. In both cases, people would either have to do something they do not agree with or have no content. 

[SamaraDraven]

My point is that I doubt the exclusion of same sex marriages is due to fear of backlash, given that EA & Bioware games HAVE included same sex married couples before.

 

I haven't played a Bioware game that has, but then I've played only a few Bioware games. Having done it before doesn't mean they aren't still concerned about backlash and thus don't push too far. There's grumbling about the existence of gay LIs in DAI so it's not as if it's impossible there isn't at least some concern they might go too far. I'm not the authority on this, though. I simply have my own thoughts on the matter. If Bioware and EA aren't biased themselves, I can only assume that they're aware of possibly alienating a large enough percentage of their consumer base to limit what they put in their games. In order to make back the money spent on a game and take in a profit, they need to sell it. That's kind of hard to do if some markets ban the game for the alternative sexual and civil content it contains. I wish things were different but the reality is we still live in a world that has large populations of people who are not accepting of anything from the norm. The game companies aren't going to lead the charge in social equality until they see a reason to. Whether that's profit or the desire to represent more of their consumer base is up to the company. But until there's a big enough change in their consumer base or potential for profit, the companies aren't going to change anything. Bioware includes s/s relationships because it reflects a large enough part of their consumer base. And, I think, the representation has grown with each game but there is room for improvement. Improvement that not enough of their base is ready for, if the bigoted grumbling I see is anything to go by.

[SamaraDraven]

So until society changes, I'm stuck with absolutely nothing in terms of representation. Joy. 

However, they go with the minority in a couple of the things I listed so it's not just them catering to the biggest market.

 

My point was that some of their base has grown enough to be represented, even though they're the minority and that trying include every minority might turn off the majority of their base. There's only so much minority representation the market as a whole will (grudgingly) accept.

 

I'm sorry you can't play the way you wish to. It sucks not being able to fully roleplay the way you want. I think Sebastian was the closest thing to your stated preference but he wanted a sexless marriage entirely, not just to wait until after marriage so I guess it's really not suitable to your needs any more than the rest. Unfortunately, it's not common enough for Bioware to see a need to include it.

[Hazegurl]

I haven't played a Bioware game that has, but then I've played only a few Bioware games.

You should play the Mass Effect series. If you haven't. Plenty of gay married couples from all the background chatter I remember from ME3, then you got the Asari who are pretty much an all female race who marry and have kids, and you can even romance a guy who lost his husband. As MShep of course.

[X Equestris]

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Why would anyone want to willingly roleplay an ignorant, superstitious and brainwashed character from the dark ages or a weak and feeble-minded character that acts like a slave to illogical and meaningless societal and theological rules? Unless I completely missed your point here. Did you mean to state that there will always be someone unhappy about something? English isnt my native language so sometimes jokes, sarcasm and shrouded arguments fly straight over my head.

I fail to see how choosing not to have sex before marriage is any more " illogical, superstitious and brainwashed" or "weak and feeble-minded" than being sexually open like Iron Bull or Isabella.

[SamaraDraven]

I fail to see how choosing not to have sex before marriage is any more " illogical, superstitious and brainwashed" or "weak and feeble-minded" than being sexually open like Iron Bull or Isabella.

 

Yeah, I don't get it either. It's quite the leap of logic. And it borders on insulting Kallen directly since the case made was about how the games applied to roleplaying their preferred character.

[SamaraDraven]

You should play the Mass Effect series. If you haven't. Plenty of gay married couples from all the background chatter I remember from ME3, then you got the Asari who are pretty much an all female race who marry and have kids, and you can even romance a guy who lost his husband. As MShep of course.

 

I plan to get around to it. Right now I'm cleaning up my system so I have enough space for Dragon Age: Origins on the HD.

 

Oops. Double post. sorry.

[Xilizhra]

Does marriage in Thedas actually offer any benefits that would matter to those who wouldn't have biological children?

[Br3admax]

No. 

[In Exile]

I fail to see how choosing not to have sex before marriage is any more " illogical, superstitious and brainwashed" or "weak and feeble-minded" than being sexually open like Iron Bull or Isabella.

 

Sometimes it can be really hot to roleplay as an "illogical, superstitious and brainwashed" pleb who...

 

... Oh, wait, that's not the roleplay you meant, is it? 

[In Exile]

Does marriage in Thedas actually offer any benefits that would matter to those who wouldn't have biological children?

It's an affirmation of a long-term desire to be a monogamous relationship with someone, so in that regard it has value. 

[Br3admax]

That's not what marriage is in Thedas. 

[raging_monkey]

I think i messed mentioning marriage. Ive started a debate... me and idealism

[In Exile]

That's not what marriage is in Thedas. 

 

That's part of what marriage is in Thedas. 

[Br3admax]

That's part of what marriage is in Thedas. 

Besides the fact that we've already been presented with evidence that this isn't the case. 

[In Exile]

Besides the fact that we've already been presented with evidence that this isn't the case. 

 

There's no evidence that it isn't the case. We know that human Thedosian commoners marry and that they don't have arranged marriages. They marry for love. The CEs have arranged marriages because of their population.