1071 réponses à ce sujet

[Br3admax]

They had arranged marriages for family. Otherwise they wouldn't ship people from a country away. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

There's no evidence that it isn't the case. We know that human Thedosian commoners marry and that they don't have arranged marriages. They marry for love. The CEs have arranged marriages because of their population. 

This link says it's not that simple. (Easiest way to find the relevant bits is to use a search function, if your browser has it*, and type "marriage.")

 

(* I'm not sure whether or not there are any that don't.)

[SamaraDraven]

Does marriage in Thedas actually offer any benefits that would matter to those who wouldn't have biological children?

 

Not many that I can think of. I didn't see a point in it, personally. Perhaps there are estate rights? Or maybe some people just want to be able to marry their LIs.

[daveliam]

They had arranged marriages for family. Otherwise they wouldn't ship people from a country away. 

 

We've had evidence that there are marriages for love.  The Hawkes are a perfect example of this.

[SamaraDraven]

Besides the fact that we've already been presented with evidence that this isn't the case. 

 

Not all married couples in Thedas were in it politically. The most high profile ones were and arranged marriages seem the norm among city elves. There were a few who seemed to marry for love, like Fergus and his Antivan wife. Then there was Gascard and Ninette. He said "they were in love once" and that she even defied her family to marry him. In DAO, among the Dalish, there was Cammen who cared for a woman but, though she seemed to care for him too, she refused to acknowledge him because he hadn't yet met their clans definition of "being an adult" and couldn't go on his own hunt because Zathrian had forbidden them from leaving their camp. Had he done so, it seems she'd have felt just fine with courting him. She liked him but just couldn't be with him due to cultural traditions until he had "proven himself an adult". Eamon married Isolde even though it was frowned upon because she was Orlesian, though I don't know if he didn't have ulterior motives. It seems that some do have the luxury of marrying according to their wishes.

[Xilizhra]

It's an affirmation of a long-term desire to be a monogamous relationship with someone, so in that regard it has value. 

It might be worth pointing out that marriage is seriously unlikely to happen in the case of any of our companions anyway. In Origins, we just travel around too much. In 2... Isabela and Fenris aren't the marrying kind, Merrill would likely not join an Andrastian marriage, and Anders hates the Chantry and thinks he's about to die anyway. Thus leaving Sebastian.

[Grieving Natashina]

We've had evidence that there are marriages for love.  The Hawkes are a perfect example of this.

If anything, the marriage between Leandra and Malcom couldn't have been worse in a political and social sense.  Especially since it seemed to be fairly common knowledge that the Amells tended to pop out mage kids.  If memory serves, the human mage Warden wasn't the only Amell to become a mage, as I think Leandra makes a comment about one of her cousins having a few mage kids.

 

Briefly on the topic of marriage in general:  I think there is too much of an emphasis on the state institution side of it.  I am not saying that I'm opposed to a possible romance in BW games that ends in a state/Chantry sanctioned marriage.   What I am saying that the vows you honor to each other, the ones you say alone and with love, matter far more than a piece of paper and a ceremony.  I personally choose the ceremony because I wanted to.    My brother and his wife have been together for over a decade and have a child now.  They've never done the whole "walking down the isle signing a marriage license" bit.  They are technically married due to state common law, but they don't need a ceremony and a piece of paper to prove their love.

 

That aside, getting a little more on topic, I'd really like to see a M/M couple without the cute hints or open interpretation.  Give me someone like Steve Cortez, who talked about being a widower in the same manner as a straight man would.   Not being shy or having any hesitations, but openly and honestly expressing his love for the man he lost.  I would love to see more of that in DA games, minus the husband being dead and all.

[Br3admax]

Not all married couples in Thedas were in it politically. The most high profile ones were and arranged marriages seem the norm among city elves. There were a few who seemed to marry for love, like Fergus and his Antivan wife. Then there was Gascard and Ninette. He said "they were in love once" and that she even defied her family to marry him. In DAO, among the Dalish, there was Cammen who cared for a woman but, though she seemed to care for him too, she refused to acknowledge him because he hadn't yet met their clans definition of "being an adult" and couldn't go on his own hunt because Zathrian had forbidden them from leaving their camp. Had he done so, it seems she'd have felt just fine with courting him. She liked him but just couldn't be with him due to cultural traditions until he had "proven himself an adult". Eamon married Isolde even though it was frowned upon because she was Orlesian, though I don't know if he didn't have ulterior motives. It seems that some do have the luxury of marrying according to their wishes.

The fact that they are married and happy doesn't prove they married for love. Hawke's aside of course, But then again, they're exceptions. 

[daveliam]

The fact that they are married and happy doesn't prove they married for love. Hawke's aside of course, But then again, they're exceptions. 

 

Why Hawke's aside?  You said that there was evidence to suggest that there is no such thing as marriage for love in Thedas.  The Hawkes prove that there is marriage for love in Thedas.  It might not be common and they might be an exception to the rule, but they still prove it possible.  And if it's possible for them, it's possible in other situations as well.  Seems like cherry-picking of evidence.

[SamaraDraven]

The fact that they are married and happy doesn't prove they married for love. Hawke's aside of course, But then again, they're exceptions. 

 

It's been a while I've played Origins, but I recall thinking that the way Fergus and Oriana talk about their relationship, it seemed they were very much in love before marrying. And, I repeat, Gascard said Ninette defied her family to be with him. Eamon married an Orlesian, not exactly a smart move if one wants to climb the power ladder in Ferelden. So I disagree that they weren't in love. There had to be some strong emotions present for these people to feel it was worth the trouble, being ostracized and living with the stigma of being with their chosen partner.

 

And this is what Gaider said about gay marriage in the interview linked above me, somewhere, on the gamebanshee site, though I can't say I agree with assertion that it's something no one in Thedas would think about... :/

 

Gay marriage?

 

No. Not to get political on the subject, but regardless of my support for the idea of gay marriage in our society I think it would feel pretty anachronistic to include such a concept in our setting. I doubt it's something that would even occur to people in Thedas, regardless of their orientation.

 

And here's a bit about Love in marriage. There seems to be a disconnect between what the CHANTRY says marriage is and what Andrastianism believes.
 

4) Is marriage an institution invented for the purpose of merging assets and families? Is marriage dictated by the Chantry? Is marriage simply about 'love', or has it evolved from it's original purpose to one of 'love'?

The Chantry considers it a matter of tradition and practicality, and a holy bond between man and woman. Love need not enter the picture, and indeed is often thought to not be necessary. The Andrastian ideal states that love in marriage is something worth striving for.

 

If love is okay to achieve after marriage, I don't see what problem there is with it existing before marriage. I doubt anyone would object as long as it conformed to social norms. So there may be a great many people who married for love. It only becomes a problem if it interferes with social expectations. Some couples choose to eschew those and get married anyway.

 

 

It might be worth pointing out that marriage is seriously unlikely to happen in the case of any of our companions anyway. In Origins, we just travel around too much. In 2... Isabela and Fenris aren't the marrying kind, Merrill would likely not join an Andrastian marriage, and Anders hates the Chantry and thinks he's about to die anyway. Thus leaving Sebastian.

 

Point.

[CuriousArtemis]

To me the most obvious example of marrying for love is Aveline and Donnic. She, his SUPERIOR, even takes his last name. 

[Mihura]

I am also not against marriage on games, TOR had it. if they do it for hetero romances on DA universe I will expect the same for other sexualities. I find that fair and yes there is s/s marriage across history, there is no reason not to be available to all. The problem is all the characters that had marriage as a option were straight till now, Alistair and Sebastian. 

Personally it is a big "meh" theme for me, also it was already confirm that romances do not need the sexy times to be full realize in the game but I sure will not use the option on my characters.

[dekarserverbot]

i don't think the people of thedas care, and you could have also mentioned that Duke Prosper from mark of the assassin, son was gay also (might have been cause i played as a male hawke, haven't played through mark of the assassin with a female hawke yet)

 

I remember that if you try to woo him with "her" he just ignores you and gives you another meaningless shore to do for him, so yes, he is gay

[thevaleyard]

To me the most obvious example of marrying for love is Aveline and Donnic. She, his SUPERIOR, even takes his last name. 

 

Uh, women generally take on their husband's surname when married.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I remember that if you try to woo him with "her" he just ignores you and gives you another meaningless shore to do for him, so yes, he is gay

Or just not interested in Tallis, since according to the wiki a female Hawke going in alone doesn't get that reaction.

[CuriousArtemis]

Uh, women generally take on their husband's surname when married.

 

Yes because marriage is rooted in patriarchy, and women were once treated as property of men; first she's owned by her father then is bought and sold to her husband. Hence the name change. 

 

Either the writers didn't think about it much (most likely) or they're telling us that Thedas stems from similarly patriarchal roots.

[In Exile]

I am also not against marriage on games, TOR had it. if they do it for hetero romances on DA universe I will expect the same for other sexualities. I find that fair and yes there is s/s marriage across history, there is no reason not to be available to all. The problem is all the character that had marriage as a option were straight till now, Alistair and Sebastian. 

Personally it is a big "meh" theme for me, also it was already confirm that romances do not need the sexy times to be full realize in the game but I sure will not use the option on my characters.

 

If there's ever marriage in a DA game, it better not be like TOR. It was just off-puting how quickly that culminated in "knowebabybabieskthxbye". There's was no option to not really want to get married or want kids to progress the "romance". 

[Mihura]

If there's ever marriage in a DA game, it better not be like TOR. It was just off-puting how quickly that culminated in "knowebabybabieskthxbye". There's was no option to not really want to get married or want kids to progress the "romance". 

 

Oh I never did it so... but I have a friend that married the doctor on the jedi path, seemed okiss not sure about the other romances. 

[trying_touch]

This became an issue of marriage... which is a bit odd. What Bioware game has actually allowed you to get married in-game? 

 

I know there is mention of marriage in the epilogue (Jade Empire and DA:O), but for the most part, it's rarely a part of your hero's journey.

[Who Knows]

This became an issue of marriage... which is a bit odd. What Bioware game has actually allowed you to get married in-game? 

 

I know there is mention of marriage in the epilogue (Jade Empire and DA:O), but for the most part, it's rarely a part of your hero's journey.

SWTOR. All or almost all of the love interests can be married. That's 8+ romances. You don't actually see a ceremony, but you do get the option to get married.

[Mihura]

This became an issue of marriage... which is a bit odd. What Bioware game has actually allowed you to get married in-game? 

 

I know there is mention of marriage in the epilogue (Jade Empire and DA:O), but for the most part, it's rarely a part of your hero's journey.

 

Yes you can, with Alistair if you are a noble and with Sebastian if you are FemHawke.

[TheEternalStudent]

Yes you can, with Alistair if you are a noble and with Sebastian if you are FemHawke.

Those are both epilogue states (and possibly not even that for Sebastian, it's his intent, but open rebellion in Kirkwall may have nixed that)

[Ryzaki]

Those are both epilogue states (and possibly not even that for Sebastian, it's his intent, but open rebellion in Kirkwall may have nixed that)

 

If you play Legacy after act 3 I believe it's implied they got married?

[DaySeeker]

 

Ablutophobia is the closest to that, according to Google.  

 

There is no specific word for a fear of soap.   Just looked.

 

 

I know that at least one bisexual man in this thread would 100% disagree with you.  And what statistics?  Do you have a link (or three, I like to cross-reference) or is this something you just made up?

 

 

Nope, I didn't make it up.  I don't see how it is biphobic.  I also don't see how one bisexual man on this thread would be able to speak for all bisexuals, but there it is.  There was a flurry of activity on bisexual erasure I was reading about, and this was part of it.  I don't see why it would be so hard to believe; it is easier and more socially acceptable to be in a heterosexual relationship, there are way more possibilities to do so.  Hetero relationships also allow marriage in every state and the ability to procreate.  

[TheEternalStudent]

If you play Legacy after act 3 I believe it's implied they got married?

I brought him along after Rivalmancing him, and I got no such dialogue (as I recall) and I'm pretty sure Legacy doesn't understand the difference between during and after Act 3 (Anders is fretting over Meredith, and i don't think he's worried she's coming back to life)