1071 réponses à ce sujet

[CuriousArtemis]

Yeah, your dad was trying to break the ice and kudos to him for being loving and accepting towards his son, but he was fumbling through an entire existence of homophobia and sexism; it's not his fault, but he wasn't able to conceive of love between two people (regardless of gender) without assigning gender rules. Prescribed gender roles are inherently sexist, and assigning those roles to two men or women has the added bonus of being homophobic lol (Of course it is totally okay if a couple decide to take on those roles; when it's a choice, it's totally cool).

[Hellion Rex]

You seem to be confusing the idea of a homophobic statement and a homophobic person. 

 

A homophobic person could make a statement about homosexuality that is not homophobic, but that doesn't mean that it changes their inner thoughts.

 

A person who is not homophobic can make a homophobic statement, perhaps because they "don't know any better". 

 

The statement that one man is the man and the other is the woman is a homophobic statement.  Without a question.  Perhaps the person making the statement didn't intend to be homophobic, but that doesn't change the nature of the statement.

Father Dave, laying down a sermon of truth.

 

Amen!

[Hellion Rex]

Yep.

 

It was for example really common during the roman age.

Well, if I recall correctly, it was ok as long as you were the "penetrator". If you were an upper class citizen, it was considered an issue if you let yourself be penetrated.

[Milan92]

Well, if I recall correctly, it was ok as long as you were the "penetrator". If you were an upper class citizen, it was considered an issue if you let yourself be penetrated.

 

That is true.

[CuriousArtemis]

Well, if I recall correctly, it was ok as long as you were the "penetrator". If you were an upper class citizen, it was considered an issue if you let yourself be penetrated.

 

Suddenly everyone in Rome claims to be the penetrator ... "The Penetrator" sounds like a gladiator title  

 

I think there's lots of naughty guy-on-guy action in the Satyricon but I've not really read much of that tbh.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Indeed. I think what race you are having sex with is considered more of an issue versus what gender you are having sex with. As a male human, being in a relationship with an elf might be a bit more scandalous than doing it with another guy.

Id say that's correct, people didn't care much about Celene being with another woman, the real issue was the fact that Briala was a elf

[vertigomez]

Indeed. I think what race you are having sex with is considered more of an issue versus what gender you are having sex with. As a male human, being in a relationship with an elf might be a bit more scandalous than doing it with another guy.

Let's all take a moment to appreciate Hawke not giving a @#%! and loving Fenris or Merrill anyway.

[CuriousArtemis]

Let's all take a moment to appreciate Hawke not giving a @#%! and loving Fenris or Merrill anyway.

 

I love that dialogue they have... "I'm an escaped slave and an elf. Doesn't that bother you?" Hawke is like, HELLS TO THE NO, C'mere my sweet!"

[Br3admax]

In Thedas sex is as it should be, like in roman times. There was no lesbian, gay or straight - sex was simply sex (as it really is in its natural state).

Sexual differation is a result of religious-cultural values over time. If you use a male, female, a tree, a corpse, a rock or your own hand - sex is still just sex.

Wut? Do you mine explaining your reasoning....for any if this?

[SamaraDraven]

I love that dialogue they have... "I'm an escaped slave and an elf. Doesn't that bother you?" Hawke is like, HELLS TO THE NO, C'mere my sweet!"

LOL! Though I'm not crazy about Fenris, I did like - pretty much ALL - the romance dialogue you could have with him.

[Vita Brevis]

Definitely subject to interpretation! I've probably romanced him *INSERT EMBARRASSINGLY HIGH NUMBER* times and never interpreted that line as flirtatious. More like... He does like Hawke, but he's not aware of liking Hawke just yet. So he pays him (and okay her) a compliment, but doesn't realize there's more to it. But he's not intentionally flirting. Because I don't see him intentionally flirting.

Nope, it's quite clear.   Even sarcasticHawke says to that "you're sound like you're asking for a loan" which means it is what it is. 

It's just, well, subtle. He's not like Zevran or Anders, he won't say such thing freely. It's not like the situation is very different from that in Legacy - when he does say "that" it doesn't mean anything unless you want it to, he can still back away from it and so can you. But, you can tell from companions reaction that it's not your imagination, especially if Aveline's in the party. 

 

Wait a minute, has it been confirmed that Danarius abused Fenris sexually? 

 

I remember reading about that somewhere - that the devs said it.

Then again, if you met him in-game, you don't need devs confirmations. It's clear as a day.

[CuriousArtemis]

Nope, it's quite clear.   Even sarcasticHawke says to that "you're sound like you're asking for a loan" which means it is what it is. 

It's just, well, subtle. He's not like Zevran or Anders, he won't say such thing freely. It's not like the situation is very different from that in Legacy - when he does say "that" it doesn't mean anything unless you want it to, he can still back away from it and so can you. But, you can tell from companions reaction that it's not your imagination, especially if Aveline's in the party. 

 

Agree to disagree, my friend And to be clear, my opinion is that it's subject to interpretation, not that my reading is the correct reading

[Battlebloodmage]

Suddenly everyone in Rome claims to be the penetrator ... "The Penetrator" sounds like a gladiator title

 

I think there's lots of naughty guy-on-guy action in the Satyricon but I've not really read much of that tbh.

Do you like movies about gladiators?

[CuriousArtemis]

Do you like Gladiator movies?

 

I like THE Gladiator movie; are you suggesting there are others, because if so, I don't acknowledge them

 

WHAT WE DO IN LIFE..... ECHOES IN ETERNITY!!!!!!

[Adam Revlan]

A question if I may, do you guys think it would be amoral for a homosexual nobleman or noblewoman to force themselves to marry a person from the opposite gender just so they can have children, while still keeping a same-sex lover on the side?

I think it is because it is unfair to the person getting married, I recall things like Margaery marrying Renly from Game of Thrones, she seemed fine with it, but I do not think all people would be.

Also, do you think Gaspard would still have married Celene if she agreed to the marriage only if she got to keep Briala as a lover?

[Vita Brevis]

Agree to disagree, my friend And to be clear, my opinion is that it's subject to interpretation, not that my reading is the correct reading

Well yes,it' like we see what we want to see. But in 99% of cases if something's ambigious it's probably clear but we're just don't want to think about it. Especially if it's something unpleasant like Denarius and Fenris, things like that.

[Xilizhra]

A question if I may, do you guys think it would be amoral for a homosexual nobleman or noblewoman to force themselves to marry a person from the opposite gender just so they can have children, while still keeping a same-sex lover on the side?

I think it is because it is unfair to the person getting married, I recall things like Margaery marrying Renly from Game of Thrones, she seemed fine with it, but I do not think all people would be.

Also, do you think Gaspard would still have married Celene if she agreed to the marriage only if she got to keep Briala as a lover?

That depends if the marriage was required by other people or if it was one's own choice; if the former, I'd argue that it was an unfortunate necessity.

[CuriousArtemis]

A question if I may, do you guys think it would be amoral for a homosexual nobleman or noblewoman to force themselves to marry a person from the opposite gender just so they can have children, while still keeping a same-sex lover on the side?

I think it is because it is unfair to the person getting married, I recall things like Margaery marrying Renly from Game of Thrones, she seemed fine with it, but I do not think all people would be.

Also, do you think Gaspard would still have married Celene if she agreed to the marriage only if she got to keep Briala as a lover?

 

Amoral... only if you consider political marriages to be amoral. Whether one partner is gay or not, or has a lover on the side... it's still a loveless marriage. 

 

If Briala hindered his ability to rule in any way, then he'd have a problem with her being his wife's lover. Otherwise, I don't think he'd give a rat's arse.

[wildelight]

I think there's lots of naughty guy-on-guy action in the Satyricon but I've not really read much of that tbh.

A lot of the humor gets lost in cultural and literal translation, not to mention a good chunk is completely missing. Still, Varric could potentially be called the Petronius of Kirkwall

Also, as for political marriage being immoral... if the aim was to keep the peace/cement alliances/etc., I think such an arrangement might be considered a personal sacrifice for the greater good. Personally, I believe the moral choice isn't always the fairest one.

[daveliam]

A question if I may, do you guys think it would be amoral for a homosexual nobleman or noblewoman to force themselves to marry a person from the opposite gender just so they can have children, while still keeping a same-sex lover on the side?

I think it is because it is unfair to the person getting married, I recall things like Margaery marrying Renly from Game of Thrones, she seemed fine with it, but I do not think all people would be.

Also, do you think Gaspard would still have married Celene if she agreed to the marriage only if she got to keep Briala as a lover?

I don't find it to be amoral because, as CuriousArtemis said, political marriages have been happening since there have been politics.

 

Provided that the gay person doesn't deceive his/her partner into thinking that it is a marriage of love, then I don't see the issue.  In fact, to bring it back to DA: O, my thoroughly gay Lord Aeducan did just this with Mardy in order to ensure an heir, even though his heart was with Zevran (and a headcanoned unrequited love with Gorim).

[CuriousArtemis]

I don't find it to be amoral because, as CuriousArtemis said, political marriages have been happening since there have been politics.

 

Oh, but... let me be clear I do consider the "practice" of political marriage to be immoral. I mean historically it was practiced so that men could beget male heirs, and women were seen as little more than birthing vessels to make that happen. Second class citizens, if you will, if that. 

 

I'm not a tremendous fan of marriage, but if it happens, it should only be for love, imo ^^

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Drat, and I was going to show my knowledge of the Greek goddess Athena/Roman goddess Minerva(basically she is the only god or goddess in those pantheons to have godly attributes as well as never getting married or have sex. The only one who comes close is Hades/Pluto, who was a faithful husband.). But okay, BiowareMod02. 

[Urazz]

In Ferelden it's regarded as a bit unusual but not "bad". In Orlais (and presumably Antiva) it's regarded as a quirk of character. As for Tevinter, Dorian is discriminated against not necessarily because he likes men, but because he won't settle down with a woman and make a bunch of mage babies with her.

It didn't even have to be a bunch of mage babies, just one so he could say he did his duty for his family and ensured it would go on and have an heir.

 

From what I've seen most nations don't care about people being homosexual unless you are a noble, then it's expected that you'll marry someone of the opposite gender and have an heir and even then the public won't care if you continue seeing your homosexual lover as long as you are discreet about it like you would be normally with any extramarital affair.