188 réponses à ce sujet

[StarcloudSWG]

It's less that Shepard died, and more that Shepard died in a completely unsatisfying, non-cathartic way for no reason other than the lead writer, lead designer, and project lead wanted Shepard dead.

 

Look at the emotional difference between how Mordin died and how Shepard died.

 

Mordin dies in the process of correcting or attempting to correct a wrong that he, *personally* committed and aided in against the Krogan people. This was a story of personal redemption.

 

Shepard dies in the process of... um.. doing what? What great wrong has Shepard committed against the entire galaxy that requires him or her to die?

 

Right, can't think of anything, can you?

 

That's because Mordin is a Tragic Hero and Shepard *isn't*. Emotionally, the ending of Mass Effect 3 is NOT cathartic as it *needed* to be, and that's why you felt hollow and depressed. The story did not end in catharsis, it ended in emptiness.

[Iakus]

It's less that Shepard died, and more that Shepard died in a completely unsatisfying, non-cathartic way for no reason other than the lead writer, lead designer, and project lead wanted Shepard dead.

 

Look at the emotional difference between how Mordin died and how Shepard died.

 

Mordin dies in the process of correcting or attempting to correct a wrong that he, *personally* committed and aided in against the Krogan people. This was a story of personal redemption.

 

Shepard dies in the process of... um.. doing what? What great wrong has Shepard committed against the entire galaxy that requires him or her to die?

 

Right, can't think of anything, can you?

 

That's because Mordin is a Tragic Hero and Shepard *isn't*. Emotionally, the ending of Mass Effect 3 is NOT cathartic as it *needed* to be, and that's why you felt hollow and depressed. The story did not end in catharsis, it ended in emptiness.

 

It's times like this I wish I could give a post more than one "like".

[ME_Fan]

Just play Dragon Age: Origins, it's the next closest thing, and you have a month to get it completed before Dragon Age: Inquistion is released.

[Ajensis]

that's why you felt hollow and depressed. The story did not end in catharsis, it ended in emptiness.

 

It sounds a bit arrogant to pretend to know a poster better than he knows himself.

 

To echo what's been said once already, please allow the OP to share his experiences without pushing your personal agendas. It's kinda disrespectful to greet a new Mass Effect fan by using his thread as a soapbox for your own selfish goals while ignoring his opinion and sentiments completely.

[Farangbaa]

The only time I've ever felt really confused after watching a movie or playing a game was when I saw Fight Club. I always thought it was a stupid action movie.. boy was I wrong. I spent an hour afterwards rewinding the entire movie in my head, wtf'ing countless times and eventually seeing the movie again.

Awesome movie. AWESOME MOVIE.

After Mass Effect I told myself another story of the Shepard . I have 0 problems with the endings, but I know I'm in the minority. I wasn't surprised by Shepard's death either. You spend like an hour saying goodbye to everybody while you're on Earth. If that didn't give it away I don't know what would've. I was also very, very excited when I first met the Catalyst. Love it. I finally got the answers I was begging for since ME1.

[Jos Hendriks]

Welcome, Xamalion!

 

You've come to the right place. I'm really happy to hear that you've enjoyed going through the series so much, it echoes my own playthroughs. In the end, you can always re-connect with these characters by playing through again; that's what I do.

 

Hope you enjoy your stay here.

[q5tyhj]

In the end, you can always re-connect with these characters by playing through again; that's what I do.

 

Yes, that. Once again, just like a good book. 

[q5tyhj]

It sounds a bit arrogant to pretend to know a poster better than he knows himself.

 

To echo what's been said once already, please allow the OP to share his experiences without pushing your personal agendas. It's kinda disrespectful to greet a new Mass Effect fan by using his thread as a soapbox for your own selfish goals while ignoring his opinion and sentiments completely.

 QTF

[Farangbaa]

 QTF

 

Quote the finger?

[Iakus]

It sounds a bit arrogant to pretend to know a poster better than he knows himself.

 

To echo what's been said once already, please allow the OP to share his experiences without pushing your personal agendas. It's kinda disrespectful to greet a new Mass Effect fan by using his thread as a soapbox for your own selfish goals while ignoring his opinion and sentiments completely.

Gee I had no idea that politely expressing a differing point of view was "pushing an agenda"

[Darks1d3]

First off, welcome Xamalion to Bioware Forums.

I started my first ME trilogy play-through about a year ago, and I, like yourself, instantly fell in love with the characters. I never teared up myself, but I came close a few times(Liara's romance scenes in LoTSB, the conclusion of the Tuchanka Arc with Mordin's death, etc.)

I also played a full paragon on my first play through, but that changed on subsequent play-throughs(and if I may, I'd invite you to do the same). This was largely due to reading some other people's ideas or perspectives on this forum(though reading Plato's Republic and briefly reading Hobbes' Leviathon also played a role). There are a number of intelligent people on these boards, and most of them are more than willing to share their ideas.

Of course, there are the occasional breakdowns and flame wars, but they are also a good source of amusement. With that said, as a friendly warning, there are a few topics that a lot of people are still quite passionate about, and should be probably be avoided(Get Vs Quarians being a big one).

Again, welcome to the forums.

[StarcloudSWG]

It sounds a bit arrogant to pretend to know a poster better than he knows himself.

 

 

Then I suggest you re-read what he wrote and pay attention to the lines, "I finished ME 3 Saturday night and I feel empty since." And "Nothing else is fun right now."

[Vazgen]

Then I suggest you re-read what he wrote and pay attention to the lines, "I finished ME 3 Saturday night and I feel empty since." And "Nothing else is fun right now."

This allows a different interpretation though. Like this: "After playing such an emotional experience as Mass Effect any other game feels shallow and doesn't draw me in anymore"

In fact, that's what I get from the post, not that he was depressed. Probably because I felt that way myself.

 

From the rest of the post I got the impression that he is/was deeply passionate about the series and loved them whole, with ending having no or minor impact on that feeling, which, I think, contradicts with what you've brought in your post. These quotes from the original post show it quite well

 

I'm still ok with that ending because everyone else could live in peace from now on.I also checked the other endings out, especially the destruction ending with him breathing - I'm teary eyed even thinking about it. I cried like a baby when the old man speaks to the child in the epilouge. Another story about Shepard? Shut up and take my money!

 

It also shows that making games is an art, even if the mainstram media still wants it to stay in a greasy corner. I mean, when something can touch you so deeply, how couldn't it be art? The music, the scenery, the characters. Everything. For me that is perfection, even with some things that could have been better, you cannot serve everyone. 

[Degs29]

Man, I know how you feel OP for sure.  I found the Mass Effect franchise in 2010 at a time when video games had stopped being enjoyable to me.  They just couldn't hold my interest anymore.  I'd pick up a game, then discard it after less than 10 hours of play. 

 

After half a year without playing a single video game I decided to check out a top 10 list to see what new games were out.  Mass Effect 2 sat in the #1 spot, right above Bioshock.  It was a toss up between those two, but Mass Effect 2 was on sale for $20.  That's the best $20 I ever spent in my life!

 

To be perfectly honest, for a couple hours I thought I had made a mistake and that I'd be setting it aside shortly just like all the others.  Who were these characters?  What's the story?  Who's Shepard and why is he so respected?  Was this just going to be another boring shooter?  It wasn't undil I met Mordin that I knew that wasn't the case.  This game was something special.  It had a great story, it had great characters, it held meaning, and it had choices that mattered.  Needless to say I beat the game in a little under two weeks.  Quite an accomplishment seeing as I had a full time job and other commitments.  I had beaten it all over again three weeks later.

 

I quickly picked ME up and beat that.  Then ME2 again.  Then ME again.  Then ME2 again.  All in rapid succession.  I played nothing else for three months!  Then I had to try out Bioware's other great series:  Dragon Age.  While it didn't hook me in the same way, it certainly had my attention.

 

Bioware basically reintroduced me to gaming.  Ironically, Mass Effect 3 was the last game I was really hooked on.  I'm hoping DA:I and TW3 can do for me again what ME2 did.

[q5tyhj]

Gee I had no idea that politely expressing a differing point of view was "pushing an agenda"

When that "differing point of view" has nothing to do with the topic or the OP (and is, so far as I've seen, the main thing you post about) then that's pretty much what it is. Any reasonably competent English speaker can see that the OP isn't a "grump about the me3 ending" post/topic- far from it (i.e. "starcloudSWG" needs to heed their own advice).

[q5tyhj]

Man, I know how you feel OP for sure.  I found the Mass Effect franchise in 2010 at a time when video games had stopped being enjoyable to me.  They just couldn't hold my interest anymore.  I'd pick up a game, then discard it after less than 10 hours of play. 

 

After half a year without playing a single video game I decided to check out a top 10 list to see what new games were out.  Mass Effect 2 sat in the #1 spot, right above Bioshock.  It was a toss up between those two, but Mass Effect 2 was on sale for $20.  That's the best $20 I ever spent in my life!

 

To be perfectly honest, for a couple hours I thought I had made a mistake and that I'd be setting it aside shortly just like all the others.  Who were these characters?  What's the story?  Who's Shepard and why is he so respected?  Was this just going to be another boring shooter?  It wasn't undil I met Mordin that I knew that wasn't the case.  This game was something special.  It had a great story, it had great characters, it held meaning, and it had choices that mattered.  Needless to say I beat the game in a little under two weeks.  Quite an accomplishment seeing as I had a full time job and other commitments.  I had beaten it all over again three weeks later.

This is awfully similar to my own experience. Came late to the mass effect party- had picked up ME2 used not too long before ME3 came out, after having constantly seen it on "best game of the year" lists and heard/read people talk it up. I had no idea what I was in for. So, so, so easily the best $20 I ever spent. 

[Ctoagu]

This is awfully similar to my own experience. Came late to the mass effect party- had picked up ME2 used not too long before ME3 came out, after having constantly seen it on "best game of the year" lists and heard/read people talk it up. I had no idea what I was in for. So, so, so easily the best $20 I ever spent. 

 

I'd been with the series as far back as 2009, and I can't even remember what prompted me to get Mass Effect 1 to start with. All I know is that the series had me by the balls the moment the Virmire Assault song started playing. It was like the game suddenly got kicked into high gear - and made it worth ten times the five or ten bucks I spent at the sale I got it from.

 

I remember thinking that Virmire was the last segment of the game, and all of that going downhill when Sovereign uttered his first words. Those memories stuck with me in a very special way, going from that to Kaidan/Ashley to the Normandy lockdown to chasing Saren through the ruins of Ilos. By the time I scaled the Presidium Tower, blasted inside right under Sovereign's bloody tentacle-feet, saw my Shepard climbing from the wreckage of that final battle and watched the credits roll to M4 Part II, I felt emotively stirred to an extent that only Metal Gear Solid 3 had previously achieved as a game - but instead of being moved to tears, I was left with such a compelling feeling of optimism.

 

In regard to the rest of the series, I've always felt that it would have worked much better if it had been designed as a series of self-contained stories within the Mass Effect universe. It even seemed to be heading in that direction with the whole Collector plot of the second game until they were revealed to be Reaper slaves - and everything onward became nothing but Reapers Reapers Reapers. I won't say anything about the third game except for the fact that its ending wasn't the grand finale and satisfying closure that I was hoping for. It was actually the opposite of closure, really. More like ending the series on a question mark; when the credits rolled with Joker and the crew stepping out into an alien world, I was left with the impression of "to be continued", and only got upset with it when Bioware said that they weren't going to be doing any post-game DLC in what they were calling a 'wasteland'.

 

But that's all a moot point now, what with the Extended Cut and the next game whose aesthetics imply that it's set after the Reaper war. These days, I'm just tentatively looking forward to what will hopefully be a return to the ME universe post-Reaper invasion, a new story being told that isn't overshadowed by virtue of being set prior to the impending arrival of the big flying death machines.

[Xamalion]

Haha, you guys are awesome. Squabbling about what my feelings are. So once more to clearify it: I totally loved it, including the (most bittersweet) ending.

 

The whole journey was something very special. As others said before, to judge the whole thing because of the last few minutes, that doesn't make sense for me. I also thought about the many people saying that the decisions you made didn't count in the end. I see that different, because they changed you and your way of thinking along the journey. Would I have prevented the Krogan cure if I had knew myself and maybe the whole galaxy would die in the end? Most certainly not. Would I prevent the Geth/Quarian peace that I negotiated and totally loved to see? Hello darks1d3 by the way! Absolutely not! I would've done it exactly the way I did. Because this is me as person. Because I want peace and harmony for everyone. Because I gladly step in for forgiveness, even when it's the hardest thing to do, but for the greater good. And if only one Krogan mother could see her child live, wouldn't it be worth it? You decide to do something in that moment because you think it's the right thing to do. Not to glorify your future or think about that it might result in some outcome years from now.

 

The next thing that came to my mind about this was the Lord of the Rings. Yes, Frodo lived in the end. But he was totally damaged by the journey. I think Tolkien did a wonderful job in trying to bring us near this kind of feeling. The hero can't go back to normal after doing all those things. Parts of you get lost along the way, wounds are battered (mentally) that won't heal. There was only one way: to leave Middle Earth along the others who feel the same. Which for me is the same as dying, because he isn't part of the story anymore.

 

And the last thought about the "all my decisions didn't matter in the end" is: Do you think every decision you made in life has an lasting impact on the rest of your life? Oh boy, I wouldn't want to live a life where it will have earthshaking consequences if I eat Kellogs or Toast for breakfast. I hope you know what I'm trying to say with that.

 

And last but not least: It will kind of matter, because in the post-Reaper world of ME4, one ending will/must/shoul be declared canon, and I think the resignation ending can be ruled out. So we have 3 different universes that can await us. One of them could have Krogan children. Another doesn't. One can have Geth and Quarians. Another not. If Bioware is smart (and I'm assuming that), then maybe you can choose the world which will fit to your final decisions. I would love that.

 

Sorry, my shameless workplace PC doesn't do paragraphs once more. I will change it as soon as possible. (outdated)

[Khemikael]

Haha, you guys are awesome. Squabbling about what my feelings are. [...]

 

This hurts you. I know you feel this.

[Iakus]

Haha, you guys are awesome. Squabbling about what my feelings are. So once more to clearify it: I totally loved it, including the (most bittersweet) ending. The whole journey was something very special. As others said before, to judge the whole thing because of the last few minutes, that doesn't make sense for me. I also thought about the many people saying that the decisions you made didn't count in the end. I see that different, because they changed you and your way of thinking along the journey. Would I have prevented the Krogan cure if I had knew myself and maybe the whole galaxy would die in the end? Most certainly not. Would I prevent the Geth/Quarian peace that I negotiated and totally loved to see? Hello darks1d3 by the way! Absolutely not! I would've done it exactly the way I did. Because this is me as person. Because I want peace and harmony for everyone. Because I gladly step in for forgiveness, even when it's the hardest thing to do, but for the greater good. And if only one Krogan mother could see her child live, wouldn't it be worth it? You decide to do something in that moment because you think it's the right thing to do. Not to glorify your future or think about that it might result in some outcome years from now. The next thing that came to my mind about this was the Lord of the Rings. Yes, Frodo lived in the end. But he was totally damaged by the journey. I think Tolkien did a wonderful job in trying to bring us near this kind of feeling. The hero can't go back to normal after doing all those things. Parts of you get lost along the way, wounds are battered (mentally) that won't heal. There was only one way: to leave Middle Earth along the others who feel the same. Which for me is the same as dying, because he isn't part of the story anymore. And the last thought about the "all my decisions didn't matter in the end" is: Do you think every decision you made in life has an lasting impact on the rest of your life? Oh boy, I wouldn't want to live a life where it will have earthshaking consequences if I eat Kellogs or Toast for breakfast. I hope you know what I'm trying to say with that. And last but not least: It will kind of matter, because in the post-Reaper world of ME4, one ending will/must/shoul be declared canon, and I think the resignation ending can be ruled out. So we have 3 different universes that can await us. One of them could have Krogan children. Another doesn't. One can have Geth and Quarians. Another not. If Bioware is smart (and I'm assuming that), then maybe you can choose the world which will fit to your final decisions. I would love that. Sorry, my shameless workplace PC doesn't do paragraphs once more. I will change it as soon as possible.

For me, it makes sense because, as I said, the endings had very, very ugly connotations for me.  Betrayal.  Loss of free will.  Capitulation.  EC really didn't help with that.  In fact, made it worse by basically having people cheer Shepard on for making such a horrible choice.  For me, it ruined the entire journey in the same way that a long road trip is ruined by a fiery crash mere blocks from home.

 

Bittersweet is a moving target.  People find different things more or less "bitter" or "sweet"  I think Bioware's failing here is assuming everyone  would be okay with Shepard dying.  Everyone would be okay with fundamentally rewriting how the galaxy worked.  For example, I dislike Synthesis mainly because as far as I'm concerned, synthetics were already alive.  And neither they nor organics should be forced to change who and what they are to fit some other being's concept of "perfection".  

 

That's why I ended ME3 thinking my chocies didn't matter:  no matter what I did, how well or poorly I played, I am violating the galaxy on some level in my attempts to "save" it.

 

And to take Lord of the Rings as an example, an ME3 version would seem to require Frodo to do diving into the fire after the One Ring to ensure it's destruction.  Sure having to go West with the other Ringbearers was sad, but 

 

1) Frodo did not die (Frodo Lives! ) 

2) Frodo went West in hopes of finding a cure (I'd like to think the Valar succeeded and he lived out his remaining days in peace)

3) Frodo also did not go alone.  Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond, and Bilbo went with him.  And in the Appendix, Sam followed years later, as did Legolas and Gimli.

 

Characters do not have to die to stoop being part of the story.  Heck look at how the Dragon Age series works:  one story, one hero.  DAO stars the Warden, DA2 is Hawke, DAI is the Inquisitor.  Death of the protagonist is not required (well, as far as we know for DAI)

[Degs29]

Bittersweet is a moving target.  People find different things more or less "bitter" or "sweet"  I think Bioware's failing here is assuming everyone  would be okay with Shepard dying.  Everyone would be okay with fundamentally rewriting how the galaxy worked.  For example, I dislike Synthesis mainly because as far as I'm concerned, synthetics were already alive.  And neither they nor organics should be forced to change who and what they are to fit some other being's concept of "perfection".  

 

That's why I ended ME3 thinking my chocies didn't matter:  no matter what I did, how well or poorly I played, I am violating the galaxy on some level in my attempts to "save" it.

 

I don't want to go too far off-topic here, but my disappointment in the ending had less to do with Shepard dying than the fact that it was the only choice, regardless of the efforts and choices you made earlier.  I had no problem sacrificing my warden in DA:O (although, I've been finding out not many people took that route).  Why did I have no problem with that?  Because it was my choice and it fit with the experience.  Not so with Shepard and Mass Effect.  He was going to beat the Reapers by gathering together the galaxy, combining their might, and taking them down.  But instead we got the Crucible and an ABC choice.

 

My biggest disappointment was that prior choices had very little impact on the results and absolutely no meaning in the grand scheme of things.  When picking up war assets, I was imagining little mini-cutscenes for each in the ending battle, all spliced together depending on which assets you gathered.  A difficult feat for developers to accomplish, but definitely do-able.  Instead, as far as I can tell, we got one generic space battle when approaching Earth which, although epic, is not all that I had in mind, and an equally generic end-sequence with very minor differences based on a single choice you make. 

 

EC helped that in a small way, but not nearly enough to be satisfying.

[q5tyhj]

Hey, guess what- this still isn't a "belly ache about the ending" thread and you're still just grinding your (off topic) axe. Derp.

[SilJeff]

This off topic back and forth about the ending here kinda reminds me of that Turian CSEC officer's reaction to the Hanar preaching on the Presidium in ME1, the hanar is not in the right place to preach it, but stopping a hanar from talking about the enkindlers is like trying to stop a locomotive instantaneously- it just isn't going to happen

[Iakus]

This off topic back and forth about the ending here kinda reminds me of that Turian CSEC officer's reaction to the Hanar preaching on the Presidium in ME1, the hanar is not in the right place to preach it, but stopping a hanar from talking about the enkindlers is like trying to stop a locomotive instantaneously- it just isn't going to happen

We're talking about how the endings made us feel, and why.  I don't see how it's off-topic.

 

An old topic, yes.  But this is someone new who wants to discuss it.  I am providing an alternate perspective.

 

I'm even being calm and polite about it

[Nitrocuban]

The only time I've ever felt really confused after watching a movie or playing a game was when I saw Fight Club. I always thought it was a stupid action movie.. boy was I wrong. I spent an hour afterwards rewinding the entire movie in my head, wtf'ing countless times and eventually seeing the movie again.

Go watch "Memento". Srsly.