105 réponses à ce sujet

[Stronglav]

If Qunari come mages and templars will forget their differences and unite.

For a time may be.So I welcome them.And then we visit Par Vollen.And burn it down to the ground.

[SerCambria358]

believing you must die for being different is madness imo

Thats not why he thought he had to die, the qunari believe (despite it not being true) that he was corrupted so due to this misconception, he took his life for the good of his people. That isnt madness

[raging_monkey]

Thats not why he thought he had to die, the qunari believe (despite it not being true) that he was corrupted so due to this misconception, he took his life for the good of his people. That isnt madness

its pretty nuts that their beilef says this and that they must be killed for x flaw or action. But i dont wish to argue due to a possible misunderstanding/offence so shall we agree to disargee?

[SerCambria358]

A significant number Tal'Vashoth born from the force accompanying the Arishok himself? Doesn't speak very well of them.

 

 

 

We've also seen them waver just as many times.

 

 

 

And a runaway slave from Tevinter killed the very men who would have fought for his freedom in order to remain obedient to his master.

 

Of course, most people wouldn't cite that as an example of how extraordinary the culture of Tevinter is.

A number/majority of them were sailors, the other portion was obedient like the arvaarad we met, was extremely obedient

 

 

 

Not really, being stranded for years miles away from home will undoubtedly effect ones perception of things

 

 

Except he was not a slave plus im not arguing about how great the Qun is, im listing reasons why they're militarily superior, so a slave killing for his master would be a perk in war.

[Tarvesh]

like i said it was opinion i lack military knowledge despite having a family mostly involved in it. But i do know how morale works and how humans adapt to conflict

Adaptation is purely reactionary. But the nations wouldn't just be fighting the Gray giants. They'll be fighting for own.

The Qunari have converts from the other races, and a good many of them if Tallis is to be believed.

The Qunari are more advanced in military, scientific, and focus. When they invade, everyone will be focused on the horned giants because they're the obvious threats.

This is a military clincher. Because when you start to fight them and the people you thought were on your side turn on you, or sabotage is a constant hinderance, you're done.

No one has been able to really learn much about the Qunari outside the player. So their tactics, mind sets, resources are complete unknowns.

The Qunari, on the other hand, have been scouting and learning of the other nations this entire time. They know each nation's tactics, resources, capabilities, and how to work politics between opposing nations.

This is a very one sides fight. And the only hope is unity. Unfortunately, that requires a PC who's not focused on another world shattering problem.

[SerCambria358]

its pretty nuts that their beilef says this and that they must be killed for x flaw or action. But i dont wish to argue due to a possible misunderstanding/offence so shall we agree to disargee?

There is no need to argue, madness implies mental illness or insanity, their misunderstanding of magic is ignorance. The saraabas may be wrong in taking his life for a belief that isnt true but that doesnt mean it was out of madness nor does it make his action any less admirable.

 

if a random guy took his life because someone told him his family would die if he didnt, but it turns out people who threatened him never knew where his family was to make that threat, that doesnt make the guy "mad" or "insane" nor does it take away from the admirable action of his sacrifice

[raging_monkey]

There is no need to argue, madness implies mental illness or insanity, their misunderstanding of magic is ignorance. The saraabas may be wrong in taking his life for a belief that isnt true but that doesnt mean it was out of madness nor does it make his action any less admirable.
 
if a random guy took his life because someone told him his family would die if he didnt, but it turns out people who threatened him never knew where his family was to make that threat, that doesnt make the guy "mad" or "insane" nor does it take away from the admirable action of his sacrifice

perhaps i misspoke itsbtrue its not maddness but logical fallacy maybe it was admirable to some but i saw it as a fool's endeavor but thats my opinion not fact

[The Baconer]

A number/majority of them were sailors, the other portion was obedient like the arvaarad we met, was extremely obedient

 

So some are unfaltering while others are not? That's almost like... literally every other group in Thedas.

 

 

Not really, being stranded for years miles away from home will undoubtedly effect ones perception of things

 

Yes really, especially since I'm not talking only talking about the Kirkwall group here.

 

And, being stranded for years miles away from home is an unavoidable consequence of any long-term occupation, so I guess that means we can count on even more wavering in the future.

 

 

Except he was not a slave

 

He was.

 

 

im listing reasons why they're militarily superior, so a slave killing for his master would be a perk in war.

 

Well, both of these opposing forces do have a lot of slaves...

[Tarvesh]

perhaps i misspoke itsbtrue its not maddness but logical fallacy maybe it was admirable to some but i saw it as a fool's endeavor but thats my opinion not fact

I saw it as an admirable act of self awareness.
The sarabaas understood how dangerous he was. He acknowledged that he was outside of the safety protocols the Qun called for him. He acknowledged that he could not honestly say whether or not he was a host to a demon or not.
So, instead of returning to the Qun as a possible danger or outside influence that might harm the Qun or the Qunari, he submitted himself one final time to the Qun. He sacrificed himself so as not to endanger the Qunari.

[raging_monkey]

I saw it as an admirable act of self awareness.
The sarabaas understood how dangerous he was. He acknowledged that he was outside of the safety protocols the Qun called for him. He acknowledged that he could not honestly say whether or not he was a host to a demon or not.
So, instead of returning to the Qun as a possible danger or outside influence that might harm the Qun or the Qunari, he submitted himself one final time to the Qun. He sacrificed himself so as not to endanger the Qunari.

possibly but i admit my love for qunari is damaged due to its magical tolerance but i dont approve of his decision. Like i said its open to interpetation

[SerCambria358]

So some are unfaltering while others are not? That's almost like... literally every other group in Thedas.

 

 

 

Yes really, especially since I'm not talking only talking about the Kirkwall group here.

 

And, being stranded for years miles away from home is an unavoidable consequence of any long-term occupation, so I guess that means we can count on even more wavering in the future.

 

 

 

He was.

 

 

 

Well, both of these opposing forces do have a lot of slaves...

And those who do not falter have will power second to none, you seem to be under the impression that im making the qun out to be perfect. Again im simply listing reasons why they are militarily superior. Those who are loyal to the qun (which are many) are very disciplined in their field.

 

A saraabas is not a slave

 

And? I dont get the point in telling me that

[Vox Draco]

I saw it as an admirable act of self awareness.
The sarabaas understood how dangerous he was. He acknowledged that he was outside of the safety protocols the Qun called for him. He acknowledged that he could not honestly say whether or not he was a host to a demon or not.
So, instead of returning to the Qun as a possible danger or outside influence that might harm the Qun or the Qunari, he submitted himself one final time to the Qun. He sacrificed himself so as not to endanger the Qunari.

 

I saw it as a prime-example of brain-washing and the destruction of an individual personality by some kind of fanatical belief that disregards the life and freedom of a person...it's like the "Tranquil-Solution" of the Qun, but they practice it no matter what...

 

This was the prime example that made me hate the Qun and their whole behaviour, and why I happily killed them all during act II. Yes, Templars are no better, but at least the circle is not primarily about castrating mages, denying them any kind of freedom (even as little as there is), in fact, the Qun deny their mages even to know what freedom could be, chained and slaved as they are, treated like animals or warhounds to be unleashed etc...

 

If the Templar-Mage conflict in DAI can be solved in some kind of way that has mages with freedom and responsibility for their power (Spiderman anyone? Great power etc), combined in a circle of mages bound to principles of believes and a codex of behaviour, with the Templars overwatching from afar, but not as jailors and tormentors, and the Chantry as the mediator ... well than truly Thedas will be superior to the Qun, especially military-wise ... as I can see NO mage, not even elven ones, submitting (! that word alone!) to the Qun

[The Baconer]

And those who do not falter have will power second to none, you seem to be under the impression that im making the qun out to be perfect. Again im simply listing reasons why they are militarily superior. Those who are loyal to the qun (which are many) are very disciplined in their field.

 

Fair enough.

 

 

A saraabas is not a slave

 

Of course they are, but fooling them into they aren't has been quite effective.

[SerCambria358]

Of course they are, but fooling them into they aren't has been quite effective.

Not at all, you're making that assumption out of nowhere when evidence supports the opposite. They are respected for the burden they bare, but watched and put under such living conditions for the "safety" of everyone around them (despite their precautions being extreme) 

[The Baconer]

Not at all, you're making that assumption out of nowhere when evidence supports the opposite.

 

There's nothing to support the contrary, aside from an excerpt written by a human Seer. 

 

 

They are respected for the burden they bare

 

No they aren't. Despite this excerpt from WoT being scrutinized and destroyed so many times, the falsehoods it propagated refuses to die, like some loathsome cockroach.

 

What they respect is the potential convenience Saarebas offers.

 

but watched and put under such living conditions for the "safety" of everyone around them (despite their precautions being extreme) 

 

It's all about the psychology in application, right? Tevinter could learn so much.

[SerCambria358]

There's nothing to support the contrary, aside from an excerpt written by a human Seer. 

 

 

 

No they aren't. Despite this excerpt from WoT being scrutinized and destroyed so many times, the falsehoods it propagated refuses to die, like some loathsome cockroach.

 

What they respect is the potential convenience Saarebas offers.

 

 

It's all about the psychology in application, right? Tevinter could learn so much.

So 1.)You admit there is nothing to support this 2.)Why would they lie about that? If you want to create propaganda to demonize an enemy, why include a portion where they respect the saraabas? That is the perfect area to lie about the Qun 3.)Again you have literally nothing to support the idea that they are only fooling saarebas, plus if you want to enslave the mage portion of the populace, why make up a that they can possess people by just speaking to them and kill them as a result of this lie? Makes no sense to kill off the ones you want to enslave.

[The Baconer]

So 1.)You admit there is nothing to support this

 

Other then what actual Qunari say and do in-game, sure.

 

 

2.)Why would they lie about that? If you want to create propaganda to demonize an enemy, why include a portion where they respect the saraabas? That is the perfect area to lie about the Qun

 

It's not a lie, it's an incorrect interpretation of the Qun by someone attempting to emulate it.

 

 

3.)Again you have literally nothing to support the idea that they are only fooling saarebas, plus if you want to enslave the mage portion of the populace, why make up a that they can possess people by just speaking to them and kill them as a result of this lie? Makes no sense to kill off the ones you want to enslave.

 

That Saarebas are beasts of burden is not hidden from them. The "fooling" here is them being conditioned to embrace this status.

[Master Warder Z_]

Um yes it does, if you dont convert, they "educate" you, but if you still insist on not joining, they force you to hard labor till death. So either they convert or die

I meant in so far as it being seamless or perfect.

They have outcasts and rebels that war against them in their own lands.

How can you expect Thedas to be dissimilar.

[SerCambria358]

I meant in so far as it being seamless or perfect.

They have outcasts and rebels that war against them in their own lands.

How can you expect Thedas to be dissimilar.

No one said it would be seamless, but if they conquer and establish themselves in the mainland, they'll not have to worry about enemies beyond tal-vashoth 

[Master Warder Z_]

No one said it would be seamless, but if they conquer and establish themselves in the mainland, they'll not have to worry about enemies beyond tal-vashoth

Which instead of being only in two provinces
WouId be spread across more then eight.

Seems likely it would be a fry cry from the minute threat they face now.

I mean even if only 10% of Thedas rejected the Qun it would be a movement of millions.

[SerCambria358]

Which instead of being only in two provinces
WouId be spread across more then eight.

Seems likely it would be a fry cry from the minute threat they face now.

I mean even if only 10% of Thedas rejected the Qun it would be a movement of millions.

10% vs the other 90% who are fully dedicated to qun, thats not a good scenario even pushing it to 40% its still not a good scenario figuring the qun has been outnumbered before and still prevailed.

[Master Warder Z_]

10% vs the other 90% who are fully dedicated to qun, thats not a good scenario even pushing it to 40% its still not a good scenario figuring the qun has been outnumbered before and still prevailed.

The majority of the Qunari aren't of the military branch you realize? Sure no doubt you could press them into that role but that doesn't make them soldiers.

Beyond this simply being beyond the scale of any rebellion in thedasion history you also need to factor in the Qunari failure to actually defeat the far smaller rebellion within their own lands.

The Imperium at it's height only maintained a very loose control of Thedas and the Qunari seek to actually rule it.

It seems to be a long shot.

[SerCambria358]

The majority of the Qunari aren't of the military branch you realize? Sure no doubt you could press them into that role but that doesn't make them soldiers.

Beyond this simply being beyond the scale of any rebellion in thedasion history you also need to factor in the Qunari failure to actually defeat the far smaller rebellion within their own lands.

The Imperium at it's height only maintained a very loose control of Thedas and the Qunari seek to actually rule it.

It seems to be a long shot.

Yes i realize that but considering that it didnt matter before when they conquered the upper half of Thedas, id say it be even worse off if they conquered all of it and established an even larger military force.

 

The reason why the rebellion has lasted so long in the Tal vashoth is because they appear from the ranks of the qunari, its not a single established organization, its a conflict of ideals. Since the qunari are stationed in Rivain they are met with foreign ideals and cultures on a day to day basis making desertion inevitable. This would be less apparent and less of an occurrence if the Qun conquered all leaving no tension between ideals since all they would know is the qun.

 

The imperium is not the qun, the imperium still preoccupies themselves with greed and a lust for power, the qun doesnt, meaning it would be even harder for a rebellion to take advantage of some issues within the infrastructure of their society

[Master Warder Z_]

And we go back to the spewing of that Qunari garbage.

Ignoring that the rebellion is in Sehron and Par vollen and one fort in Rivain.

You want to just call it a day?

I view their military victory as a near impossibility little lone an ideological one.

There is an ocean of difference between a military victory and an ideological one.

[SerCambria358]

And we go back to the spewing of that Qunari garbage.

Ignoring that the rebellion is in Sehron and Par vollen and one fort in Rivain.

You want to just call it a day?

I view their military victory as a near impossibility little lone an ideological one.

There is an ocean of difference between a military victory and an ideological one.

And how would mentioning them change the point i made?

 

It seems you're taking this too seriously, i dont mind having a discussion but ignoring the points i made just to say "spewing of that Qunari garbage" just puts off my interest in continuing