105 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

The reason why the rebellion has lasted so long in the Tal vashoth is because they appear from the ranks of the qunari, its not a single established organization, its a conflict of ideals. Since the qunari are stationed in Rivain they are met with foreign ideals and cultures on a day to day basis making desertion inevitable. This would be less apparent and less of an occurrence if the Qun conquered all leaving no tension between ideals since all they would know is the qun.

 

But an invasion and following occupation of Thedas would only lead to greater exposure to foreign cultures and philosophies. Not to mention that erasing all knowledge of other ideologies is literally (and I truly mean this in the literal sense of the word) impossible without generations of uninterrupted Qunari institution.

[Master Warder Z_]

And how would mentioning them change the point i made?

It seems you're taking this too seriously, i dont mind having a discussion but ignoring the points i made just to say "spewing of that Qunari garbage" just puts off my interest in continuing

Your point seems to be rebellion doesn't exist in a vacuum which has already been proven false.

It isn't the converts in Rivain rebelling against the Qun. They are all across the Qunari lands.

But beyond that I don't see the point of continued discussion.

You have some notion and I disagree with it. It's pretty simple, but if you want to write it off as me being too serious or whatever your welcome to.

I simply don't see a point to further discussion.

[Arcling]

Too much stuff to cram into one game. Qunari invasion would fit as a primary or secondary plot for the next game, rather than small plot for Inquisition or some dlc for it. Although it wouldn't be something really reasonable for Qunari to do. Surely they've got a powerful army but against combined might formed from some human nations, no chance. Even some old enemies could unite. I doubt that, for example, Orlais would allow Qunari to get a foothold in Thedas. Also, the continent is big, forces would've been spread too thin. Hard to keep them supplied etc.

[SerCambria358]

But an invasion and following occupation of Thedas would only lead to greater exposure to foreign cultures and philosophies. Not to mention that erasing all knowledge of other ideologies is literally (and I truly mean this in the literal sense of the word) impossible without generations of uninterrupted Qunari institution.

Yes, but that wouldnt effect the invasion the same way culture shock didnt effect their initial invasion. Yes you can erase that knowledge but its a gradual process, not instant, plus their "education" system according to accounts, theyve turned even the most rebellious of prisoners into willing followers, am i saying every single person will be convinced? No not at all, but a significant portion would probably give in even if they dont agree because they would have no say otherwise. 

 

Your point seems to be rebellion doesn't exist in a vacuum which has already been proven false.

It isn't the converts in Rivain rebelling against the Qun. They are all across the Qunari lands.

But beyond that I don't see the point of continued discussion.

You have some notion and I disagree with it. It's pretty simple, but if you want to write it off as me being too serious or whatever your welcome to.

I simply don't see a point to further discussion.

I never said rebellion doesnt exist, i never even implied that, i said rebellion wouldnt stop the Qunari, thats the entire point ive been making

 

I never said they werent across qunari lands nor did i say it was only Rivainian converts,

 

if you're going to misunderstand my points to that extent, then yes there really is nothing more to say

[Giant ambush beetle]

Attacking right after the breech has been closed would be a bad idea too, all the troops of the factions are still at ready and able to fight back immediately, that would be tactically bad decision. 

 

For an effective first strike you have to catch your enemy off guard, not when the whole freaking continents battle hardened troops are mobilized. 

[raging_monkey]

And how would mentioning them change the point i made?
 
It seems you're taking this too seriously, i dont mind having a discussion but ignoring the points i made just to say "spewing of that Qunari garbage" just puts off my interest in continuing

id would like take his place z is a bit "stern" so it can at times be hard to get him.

Care to start my friend

[SerCambria358]

Attacking right after the breech has been closed would be a bad idea too, all the troops of the factions are still at ready and able to fight back immediately, that would be tactically bad decision. 

 

For an effective first strike you have to catch your enemy off guard, not when the whole freaking continents battle hardened troops are mobilized. 

Ehhhh thats not exactly how things work. After such a large amount of conflicts, Templar-Mage war, Orlesian Civil war, Breach, you're going to use a lot of resources and lose a lot of troops. They may be a bit more experienced now after the mess but that doesnt mean they are ready for a full on invasion from an enemy they arent familiar with. 

 

Here's an analogy, would you rather take your chances with a fighter after they just walked away from fighting a group of people (still bleeding and bruised) or wait till he rests, heals, and recovers completely so you can try to sneak up on him later even though that surprise wont take him out anyways.

 

If the qunari invade when thedas recovers, just for the sake of it being a surprise, that surprise only lasts a few days in and beyond that point they'll have to deal with a fully recovered thedas

[SerCambria358]

id would like take his place z is a bit "stern" so it can at times be hard to get him.

Care to start my friend

Its fine, thanks anyways

[raging_monkey]

Its fine, thanks anyways

no problem

[The Baconer]

Yes, but that wouldnt effect the invasion the same way culture shock didnt effect their initial invasion.

 

How do we know it didn't?

 

 

Yes you can erase that knowledge but its a gradual process, not instant, plus their "education" system according to accounts, theyve turned even the most rebellious of prisoners into willing followers, am i saying every single person will be convinced? No not at all, but a significant portion would probably give in even if they dont agree because they would have no say otherwise.

 

The people who give in if only to be spared the alternative can be counted on to abandon the Qun as quickly as they bought into it, when the opportunity arises. This will be especially apparent as the Qunari struggle to control twice the amount of territory they had at their height during the first war.

[SerCambria358]

How do we know it didn't?

 

 

 

The people who give in if only to be spared the alternative can be counted on to abandon the Qun as quickly as they bought into it, when the opportunity arises. This will be especially apparent as the Qunari struggle to control twice the amount of territory they had at their height during the first war.

Well because 1.)Theres nothing to imply as such, if foreign culture causing rebellion was that big a factor, if significant at all, there'd be at least one detail saying as such and 2.) They still invaded even if that did take place, taking the second most powerful nation in thedas (with no knowledge of them whatsoever)

 

If the qunari invade by defeating the military forces of thedas, then this wont be much of a factor, yes itll effect Qunari progress  but assuming that the entire continent is beaten, minor rebellions will not stand up to the qunari military. Also a consideration is that the darkspawn will still be around possibly giving a common enemy to converts and qunari slimming the increase in rebelling as they're preoccupied with the darkspawn threat. The qun is the lesser of two "evils" so to speak

 

Plus there are the odds that many people in thedas will embrace the qun, elves specifically along with the peasant class since the feudal system runs a majority of the continent. Many of them may enjoy being placed in a higher place in Qun society 

[The Baconer]

Well because 1.)Theres nothing to imply as such, if foreign culture causing rebellion was that big a factor, if significant at all, there'd be at least one detail saying as such

 

They had enough trouble quelling rebellions among the natives of Thedas. Nevertheless, Tal-Vashoth continue to undermine their efforts in Seheron and Rivain to this day, and then there are also the descendants of Tal-Vashoth that live on the mainland of Thedas, working as mercenaries.

 

 

 2.) They still invaded even if that did take place, taking the second most powerful nation in thedas (with no knowledge of them whatsoever)

 

And then losing it. You'd think that the Qun would be more appealing to a populace that consists of many slaves.

 

 

If the qunari invade by defeating the military forces of thedas, then this wont be much of a factor, yes itll effect Qunari progress  but assuming that the entire continent is beaten, minor rebellions will not stand up to the qunari military. Also a consideration is that the darkspawn will still be around possibly giving a common enemy to converts and qunari slimming the increase in rebelling as they're preoccupied with the darkspawn threat. The qun is the lesser of two "evils" so to speak

 

Rebellions stood up to their military in the last war, and their army wasn't even stretched across the entirety of Thedas. If they can't even reign in the people of Seheron after all this time, I doubt they will fare much better with the entire continent.

[SerCambria358]

They had enough trouble quelling rebellions among the natives of Thedas. Nevertheless, Tal-Vashoth continue to undermine their efforts in Seheron and Rivain to this day, and then there are also the descendants of Tal-Vashoth that live on the mainland of Thedas, working as mercenaries.

 

 

 

And then losing it. You'd think that the Qun would be more appealing to a populace that consists of many slaves.

 

 

 

Rebellions stood up to their military in the last war, and their army wasn't even stretched across the entirety of Thedas. If they can't even reign in the people of Seheron after all this time, I doubt they will fare much better with the entire continent.

That doesnt conclude that their initial invasion was somehow effected by tal-vashoth

 

 

They lost it because the entire continent rallied and attacked them as a continent not because of rebellion. The resistance in tevinter was fueled by outside help until an exalted march was called multiple times and they still couldnt get them out.

 

Again the rebellion was successful because of foreign aid, this wouldnt be the case if they deal with all possible outside help. The reason they havent been able to deal with the natives of Seheron is because of tevinters harassment, plus that in no way is a reflection of their capabilities because they're priority is invading therefore thats where their resources are being prioritized  

[The Baconer]

They lost it because the entire continent rallied and attacked them as a continent not because of rebellion. The resistance in tevinter was fueled by outside help until an exalted march was called multiple times and they still couldnt get them out.

 

Qunari lines in Tevinter began to falter because of rebellion. This happened in the Steel Age before the Exalted Marches were even organized. By the time the first Exalted March was called, they had already been pushed back to Rivain and Seheron.

 

 

Again the rebellion was successful because of foreign aid, this wouldnt be the case if they deal with all possible outside help. The reason they havent been able to deal with the natives of Seheron is because of tevinters harassment, plus that in no way is a reflection of their capabilities because they're priority is invading therefore thats where their resources are being prioritized  

 

The native resistance in Seheron has nothing to do with the Imperium. Tevinter can't even maintain a significant presence on Seheron; what ever holdings they try to claim are easily brushed aside by the Qunari. This would be irrelevant regardless, because the Fog Warriors are hostile to both the Qunari and the Imperium.

[Master Warder Z_]

i said rebellion wouldnt stop the Qunari, thats the entire point ive been making

The last rebellion even vaguely to this scale broke the back of the greatest empire in the world.

[SerCambria358]

Qunari lines in Tevinter began to falter because of rebellion. This happened in the Steel Age before the Exalted Marches were even organized. By the time the first Exalted March was called, they had already been pushed back to Rivain and Seheron.

 

 

 

The native resistance in Seheron has nothing to do with the Imperium. Tevinter can't even maintain a significant presence on Seheron; what ever holdings they try to claim are easily brushed aside by the Qunari. This would be irrelevant regardless, because the Fog Warriors are hostile to both the Qunari and the Imperium.

Where is this said? The only info i can find only says the rebellion loosened their 50+year grip on the nation.

 

Just because tevinter cant take Seheron doesnt mean they havent sent multiple assualts on the island, its the entire reason they didnt sign the treaty. The qunari already hold the island small guerilla tactics by natives who know their island doesnt mean a whole lot since the QUnari are preoccupied, neither does it reflect their ability to take them out. If the qunari decided to focus their attention on taking out all fog warriors, are you really trying to imply that they wouldnt be able to?

[SerCambria358]

The last rebellion even vaguely to this scale broke the back of the greatest empire in the world.

I thought we were done talking?

 

Again, you're trying to compare Tevinter and the Qunari, they're entirely different in almost every way besides the fact that they are powerful

[The Baconer]

Where is this said? The only info i can find only says the rebellion loosened their 50+year grip on the nation.

 

The aim of the first New Exalted March is to retake Seheron for Tevinter, and to liberate Rivain. Before that the Qunari had control over most of the Imperium and Antiva. They had already been pushed back to the northern corner of Thedas before the whole continent started resisting in earnest.

 

 

Just because tevinter cant take Seheron doesnt mean they havent sent multiple assualts on the island, its the entire reason they didnt sign the treaty. The qunari already hold the island small guerilla tactics by natives who know their island doesnt mean a whole lot since the QUnari are preoccupied, neither does it reflect their ability to take them out.

 

That a totally one-sided (in their favor) conflict would prevent them from keeping the population under control doesn't bode well for their second invasion.

 

 

If the qunari decided to focus their attention on taking out all fog warriors, are you really trying to imply that they wouldnt be able to?

 

Yes. The Fog Warriors themselves are only a single group out of the rebellious natives, though they are the most successful and famous.

[Han Shot First]

I could see that being the plot of a future Dragon Age title.

 

Instead of the Inquisition, you might be leading an Exalted March. 

[SerCambria358]

The aim of the first New Exalted March is to retake Seheron for Tevinter, and to liberate Rivain. Before that the Qunari had control over most of the Imperium and Antiva. They had already been pushed back to the northern corner of Thedas before the whole continent started resisting in earnest.

 

 

 

That a totally one-sided (in their favor) conflict would prevent them from keeping the population under control doesn't bode well for their second invasion.

 

 

 

Yes. The Fog Warriors themselves are only a single group out of the rebellious natives, though they are the most successful and famous.

ANd that concludes that no foreign help was involved? Orlais was going to aid ferelden in the last blight, they didnt call an exalted march in order to do so

 

Thats like saying "Rome had trouble with germanic tribes, therefore the possibility of them establishing an empire doesnt bode well".

 

So you're saying, because the qunari are proccupied preparing for the invasion of an entire continent therefore arent paying attention to the extremely superficial effect that the fog warriors are having in the grand scheme of things, that this concludes that the qunari do not have the ability to take them out? I highly HIGHLY doubt this

[The Baconer]

ANd that concludes that no foreign help was involved? Orlais was going to aid ferelden in the last blight, they didnt call an exalted march in order to do so

 

Orlais once called an Exalted March when they were literally the only participants. If you want another line, "By 6:85 Steel: Massive rebellions in Tevinter manage to free the Imperium, and the Qunari lines begin to crumble", which is apparently from a Prima guide that is cited by both the Wiki and a post on Gamefaqs.

 

 

Thats like saying "Rome had trouble with germanic tribes, therefore the possibility of them establishing an empire doesnt bode well".

 

If the summation of all the kingdoms and states of Thedas were the least bit analogous to germanic tribes, maybe it would be.

 

 

So you're saying, because the qunari are proccupied preparing for the invasion of an entire continent therefore arent paying attention to the extremely superficial effect that the fog warriors are having in the grand scheme of things, that this concludes that the qunari do not have the ability to take them out? I highly HIGHLY doubt this

 

They've only had, like, 90 f***in years to do it. So yes, the Qunari's track record at restraining their converted subjects (and themselves) is not terribly impressive. They do talk a mad game, though, I will give them that.

[Daerog]

I think they should have a Qunari DLC tale, kind of like Leliana's Song, but instead you are a Qunari.

 

So far, we only have tales and propaganda and dogma. Just like how Tevinter's corruption is really emphasized and probably exaggerated a bit, the order and control of the Qunari is probably the same.

[Helios969]

SerCambria358: You're using a 2 is greater than 1 scenario.  That only works if you're talking about clashing armies...and only if all things are equal.  Guerrilla warfare is a whole different game.  Those 10% are hidden amongst the 90% that are "loyal."  What are you going to do?  If you start wholesale slaughter of the populous to root out the rebels the 10% grows exponentially.  It also depends on the mindset of the Qunari.  If they arrive as occupiers they are likely doomed, if they arrive as conquerors (as in they intend to make Fereldan or Orleas their new capital they might have a chance.  War is demoralizing both psychologically and economically.  You don't have to defeat large armies on the battlefield you only need to take away their will to fight.

[Giant ambush beetle]

Here's an analogy, would you rather take your chances with a fighter after they just walked away from fighting a group of people (still bleeding and bruised) or wait till he rests, heals, and recovers completely so you can try to sneak up on him later even though that surprise wont take him out anyways.

Bad analogy, since most of the fighters will be militia or conscripts I'd wait till this ''fighter'' would return to his normal occupation, probably farming and trying to rebuild. Then I'd attack hard and quick, catch them off guard, before the militia can respond I'd destroy as much of the unprotected infra structure as possible, because destroying infra structure through surprise attacks is what wins wars.

[Doominike]

The rest of Thedas has Hawke, the Inquisitor and possibly the Warden, all pro-qunari arguments are invalid ^^