172 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

The biggest difference I notice is simply taking a moment to recognize how I can control the battle.  Sometimes this means having some strong damage dealers open up with powerful attacks to completely take out some targets (utilizing the first strike to take them out before they can put up their own barriers, if that is a risk).  A lot of the time it's simply paying a bit closer attention to "are there other possible combatants that I'm not aware of" as well as "are these guys significantly higher level than me?"  Sometimes it means coming back later.

 

While I can take out a group that is several levels higher than me, it will likely cause me to consume a lot more resources (i.e. potions).  Now if there's a camp location on the otherside, maybe that is worth it.  But if I'm en route to something else and would prefer to not take that risk, I circumvent or look for some way to exploit the battle via terrain or something, or simply come back later (some areas of maps are gated by simply having higher level enemies at a choke point).

I don't know if you can answer these questions, but if you can, it would put me more at ease about combat:

 

1) I know that the Inquisitor &party can disengage and flee combat.  But are there opportunities to find alternate routes and avoid combat to begin with sometimes?  I mean, if we see a camp of...I dunno, darkspawn... on our way to an objective, can we look for alternate paths to our objective and avoid engaging them?

 

2) Can healing potions (or any kind of potion) drop as loot?

[Orthiad]

Just pointing out that from the live stream yesterday that it looked like you have 8 standard HP potions and when you rest you will get your hp back and get back those 8 Hp potions.

 

So you can fast travel to one of you camp and rest then fast travel back to where you were if you run out of potions.

 

Note that this may not be possible all the time i think.

[Jaulen]

@Orthiad...

 

I thought there was fast travel back TO a camp, but not back to where you had decided to disengage from the map/quest at.

So walking around after a battle and everyone is at 25% health or less....realize you have two health potions....come around a corner and see some baddies you think "Hmm, don't want to engage. I'd better get back to camp and rest/restock before taking them on." So then you fast travel back to the nearest camp.

After camp, you have to walk back to the point you fast travelled from.

 

And if enemies that you cleared out already to get to that point you fast travelled from continually respawn in that scenario.......this game will lose my interest really quick. Seems too much like grinding and I've had enough of that with Destiny.

[Iakus]

 

And if enemies that you cleared out already to get to that point you fast travelled from continually respawn in that scenario.......this game will lose my interest really quick. Seems too much like grinding and I've had enough of that with Destiny.

That is another concern, yes

[CronoDragoon]

I love that there is one big Focus-based healing spell. It'll be sooo gratifying to see everyone's health go back to full when you pop it. Do we know based on the 45 minute video how fast Focus builds? This could be another thing. If you do Cross-class combos often and end up getting full Focus every 10 minutes of running around, then it really won't be a big deal on Normal or lower.

[Shahadem]

There seems to be legitimate reason for health not to automatically regenerate outside of battle. Especially since healing potions, which should only make it easier to regenerate health as they are made from nothing more than herbs, instantly restore health.

 

From the gameplay vids I've seen, not making healing regenerate outside of battle in a dungeon crawler like this game will be severely detracts from the gameplay.

 

If they wanted innovation, they should have done away with the video game makers healing potion crutch and then only allowed magical healing outside of combat, but make that magical healing able to completely heal all damaged character fairly quickly.

[Shahadem]

They weren't removing 'Heal Spam' though they keep mentioning it. It's just there way of saying theres no heal spell you can use all the time. They made the change to make battles have lasting effect, barrier and guard functionally serve the same purpose as healing but can't heal you to full after each fight. This also only works because we don't insta-heal to full at the end of every fight now either.

 

Frankly I wish they would stop saying 'nope, no heal spam now' as its caused all this damn confusion as to why the mechanics are there in the first place.

 

All they did was shift healing from being magically based where it made sense, to being chemically based which is complete nonsense.

 

If the only way that the healing in their game can function the way it does is via magic, then the healing should come from mages and not from chugging down more celery juice. Surely you can see how ridiculous this is.

[Shahadem]

I have seen Baulder Gate mentioned here a couple of times, I think it is worth noting that in BG you could rest anywhere or sleep at an inn to get health restored and I don't recall there being a limit on health potions or scrolls. Also, you could have a cleric/ranger/paladin  heal you or visit a temple . I wish they would have let full health regen outside of combat.But it is not to be,alas. 

 

More worth mentioning is that the poorly designed health regeneration system was the biggest failing of the series.

 

I love everything about the BG series except for the fact that the game mechanics were built for a game that wasn't a dungeon crawler even though the actual game was a dungeon crawler. What I mean was that there was an over reliance on potions that were just herbs which shouldn't magically heal you, and your clerics and mages had extremely limited casting abilities even though you were constantly facing wave after wave of NPCs. It just didn't work. The game should have given mages and cleric regenerating mp, and made cleric healing the only source of healing.

 

BG2 is my favorite game of all time, but the game mechanics simply do not match the style of game that they tried to create. After playing through the game once normally, I now just use the instant healing cheat at the end of each fight and pretend that my cleric was healing the parties injuries by praying to their god.

[Little Princess Peach]

You do not need to buy basic healing potions, you just need to return to a camp.  You do need to use reagents for the other potions, though depending on the potion you could very well be in large supply (i.e. if it uses elfroot).

You do realize this makes things so much harder for causal gamers right?

And going back to camp just to get some potions seems idiotic not to mention we can't regain health after battle, I know you guys want realism but this is still a game not an interactive movie, siriously did you guys even think to ask the gamers would they would like more before adding this feature in the game?

Sure I could understand it working for a high level play through like nightmare but  having it while playing on easy mode seems dare I say unfair?

 

I get Bioware wants to make the game more challanging but not all of us are cod players some of us just play the game for the story.

Also what if the camp is far far away from the quest it self?. I don't want to have to stop what I'm doing then go all the way back just to buy potions, no healing for a mage just nuts, it's like asking a warrior to not use a sword.

 

I did not mean to sound rude it just came across that way

[Rawgrim]

I don't think this is so bad. I like having limitations on potions. The game has a fast travel feature, I think. So heading back to camp doesn't sound like too much of a chore. Still a bit annoyed that the basic healing spell has vanished, though.

[chrstnmonks]

More worth mentioning is that the poorly designed health regeneration system was the biggest failing of the series.

 

I love everything about the BG series except for the fact that the game mechanics were built for a game that wasn't a dungeon crawler even though the actual game was a dungeon crawler. What I mean was that there was an over reliance on potions that were just herbs which shouldn't magically heal you, and your clerics and mages had extremely limited casting abilities even though you were constantly facing wave after wave of NPCs. It just didn't work. The game should have given mages and cleric regenerating mp, and made cleric healing the only source of healing.

 

BG2 is my favorite game of all time, but the game mechanics simply do not match the style of game that they tried to create. After playing through the game once normally, I now just use the instant healing cheat at the end of each fight and pretend that my cleric was healing the parties injuries by praying to their god.

My point was that you had alternatives to the potions and spells. Such as the rest and inn function or temples.Yes, rest could be interrupted I know but you could still do and sleeping at an inn could have you heal up too. Cleric/paladin/ranger heal spells have always worked fine by me.

[chrstnmonks]

Also, I know you could get regen potions and there was a spell for it. Or there were some regen items wonder if therre will be items like that in dai?

[RGC_Ines]

I don't think this is so bad. I like having limitations on potions. The game has a fast travel feature, I think. So heading back to camp doesn't sound like too much of a chore. Still a bit annoyed that the basic healing spell has vanished, though.

All depends if Im able to fast travel back from a camp to the point where I left certain area. Don't know how it is done in DAI. It could be no problem to go back to the camp for a rest or potions if I could fast travel back to the map point where I left for " healing", but if I would be forced to run across a half of world map again to reach previous area it would be really bad.

[Medhia_Nox]

Alright - here I go "again":

-8 Health Potions

-Regeneration Potions (upwards to 6 per character as per video - the character screen shows Inquisitor having 6 regen. but Cole had something else in that slot) - that's potentially 24 Regen. potions.

- Focus GROUP Heal Spell

- Revive Spell

- Healing Grenades

- Revive Grenade

- +Health on Hit mod for items.

- Amulets that provide a one shot Health Restore (shown in videos)

- Manual Revive

- Barrier (making healing unnecessary)

- Guard (making healing unnecessary) 

- Guardian Spirit for mage (making healing unnecessary)

- Reaver gets a self-heal.

 

- And likely more we don't know about.

 

Honestly - it seems like pre-schoolers would be able to heal fine in this game.  People throwing out these grand hyperbolic statements are so boorish and alarmist.  

[Ruairi46]

I will be playing Nightmare on my first run. 

[eyezonlyii]

So with all these potions jingling in my pocket, giving me back HP, what was the purpose of removing a single target heal spell? 

I would have gone in a different direction or 2.

1.) healing is still in, but can only be cast outside of combat, basically explained as it takes too much time and concentration to heal in combat or something.

 

2. Have the three mages specialize in avoiding/mitigating/eliminating damage in different ways. you could even tie it to their specializations. For instance, A knight inchanter would focus on barriers and upgrades to that; a necromancer would focus on healing or transferring health from foes to party members, like a rune that starts out as rejuvenation>regeneration>mass recovery. Lastly, a rift mage would focus on avoiding it at all. So arcane defense plus the upgrades from DA2, and repulsion field. 

 

This way people who still want to heal can heal and people who want to use barrier can barrier.

[Allan Schumacher]

So my quasi-experiment today.

 

My constraints:

• Only control the Inquisitor
• Do not use tactical camera
• Do not change from starting equipment
• Level up my characters if they leveled
• Also be a Dual Wield Rogue
• Be aggressive and look to instigate combat by jumping in with my rogue
• Do not intentionally use skill combos (Twin Fangs, for instance, does extra damage to a target frozen by Winter's Grasp)
• Try to leverage flanking by attacking targets from their rear.  This would let my attacks do more damage, and also allows for some bonus effects to happen with Twin Fangs.

 

This was probably about 40 minutes of play time.

 

In the area where Mike/Mark had their first fight (Caltrops) I ran around and got into 8 fights.  Most fights had 3 hostiles (I think 1 had 4).  I used two potions during this time.  The potions were used on myself and knowing more about the game (i.e. things I have learned by simply playing the game) here's how I could have avoided them:

• The first potion I was too aggressive and ended up surrounded by magical wards which actually did quite a number on me.  These wards are casted by spellcasters and have markings on the ground.  I could have assessed the situation better and been more careful to not end up in them.
• The second potion was because I had engaged a tougher enemy while Cassandra was tripped up on a nearby guardsman (the shield guys).  The guardsman kept Cassandra busy and left me to solo a character.  I could have remedied this by changing my target to help burn the guardsman, or using radial target control to quickly tell my entire party to attack my current target.

 

My 9th fight was the one that Mike and Mark did with the tactical camera.  I used one potion here because those archers made me a pin cushion while we all beat up the first guardsman.  I could have better focus fired the archers and leveraged stealth to help me avoid taking damage from them.  If a guardsman is pulling your attention while archers shoot you in the back (I also shouldn't have exposed my back), then you're effectively being tanked

 

 

Fights 10-13 were related to a quest that isn't too far from the 2nd fight Mike and Mark did.  I used 4 potions here.  Cass and Varric both used one, and I used two for my Inquisitor.  The biggest thing I could have done here is focus fire.  I made a huge mistake in fight 12 by effectively swapping targets by mistake, and having aggro on two characters.  I should have looked to kite/disengage more at that point, and have the team focus fire and Cass taunt.  But I did get through it, completed a quest and gained Inquisition power and found a very powerful sword (though I didn't equip it).

 

Fight 14 was against a group of animals.  Used my last potion here (Varric took a heavy hit).  At this point I was, right beside a new camp location which unlocks a new fast travel point for me and replenishes my potions in the process.  So I actually never "returned to camp" since I just found a new camp.

 

 

Now, it is important to note that I'm not new to the game.  So even if I try to play ultra aggressive or even "as a new player" I'm still going to likely have implicit actions that I don't even realize I'm doing.  I'm not really a good judge of my own "mad gamer skills" but it's also possible I am someone that tends to do well with this type of combat anyways.  At the same time, I have also improved my ability to play the game which (at least for me) is a rewarding aspect of the combat.

[Allan Schumacher]

You do realize this makes things so much harder for causal gamers right?

And going back to camp just to get some potions seems idiotic not to mention we can't regain health after battle, I know you guys want realism but this is still a game not an interactive movie, siriously did you guys even think to ask the gamers would they would like more before adding this feature in the game?

Sure I could understand it working for a high level play through like nightmare but  having it while playing on easy mode seems dare I say unfair?

 

I get Bioware wants to make the game more challanging but not all of us are cod players some of us just play the game for the story.

Also what if the camp is far far away from the quest it self?. I don't want to have to stop what I'm doing then go all the way back just to buy potions, no healing for a mage just nuts, it's like asking a warrior to not use a sword.

 

I did not mean to sound rude it just came across that way

 

I have only described the game from Normal difficulty.  We do have an easier difficulty setting which from what I hear Luke's kid was able to play without much issue.

[Rawgrim]

Just a slight nitpicking: Shouldn't a target frozen in ice take less damage from a dagger than if not frozen? The target is protected by layers of ice, after all.

[Nohvarr]

Just a slight nitpicking: Shouldn't a target frozen in ice take less damage from a dagger than if not frozen? The target is protected by layers of ice, after all.

Fang dangers appear to do piercing damage, like an ice pick.

[Shahadem]

The devs did not remove heal spam because they disliked it or though it made the game too easy or hard. They removed it because it made the game hard to balance. With heal spam and unlimited heal potions in Origins, the devs could never be certain how much effective health your team had. By removing heal spam its easier for them to calculate your effective health. Furthermore, the game isn't balance with each encounter in a vacuum. If the only way to heal your party in between fights is through heath potions then your going to have to be more cautious with each battle. Damage Mitigation abilities won't save you if you start a battle with little health remaining. This gives players a reason to seek out camps (so you can refill you potion count and heal your party) which promotes exploration, another objective of this game.

 

But here's the thing. Since healing spells all have cooldowns and mana limitations, the devs would have known exactly how much healing thoroughput each player would have had if they didn't resort back to the potion crutch.

[Shahadem]

Fang dangers appear to do piercing damage, like an ice pick.

 

You would lose a lot of kinetic energy when you have to pierce through a layer of ice, even with an ice pick.

[Shahadem]

I keep forgetting thats true. I like to limit my resting to inns for extra challenge in BG1. Then again, I usually don't even take a dedicated mage, instead depending on wands for my spells. I'm an odd ball.

 

Except that wands which could be used 50 times in quick succession were way more useful than a mage who could only cast 2 magic missles before running out of spells and becoming a liability So you weren't being an odd ball, you were just a product of game mechanics that didn't match the game's design.

 

Why should a wand be able to provide 50 magic missles but a mage only provide 2 magic missles? That was a terribly stupid decision. I realize that the source of this stupidity was whoever made that decision when designing the PnP game, but Bioware should have changed the system to better match the needs of a dungeon crawler. The PnP limitation isn't really a problem because the players and the DM can agree on altering the mechanics to get around poor design decisions but a player cannot alter the game's code to get around a bad design decision.

 

This all stems from trying to make magic super limited but then trying to make nonmagical items have greater magical properties than the people who can actually use magic. Such as having unlimited caltrops, or unlimited grenades, or making herbs capable of instantly regrowing a character's major organs. These are all results that could only be achieved by using magic, but are results assigned to nonmagical items or nonmagical characters while the characters who are actually capable of using the magic that would be the only way of achieving those results are categorically denied the ability to achieve the results that only they could logically be capable of bringing about.

 

The game mechanics need to match the internal logic of the game's fiction, the mechanics should not operate completely separate from it.

[Mikael']

I really don't understand the problems all these people are having with the difficulty. If someone made an action rpg where you play as a naked human, fighting with your fists and the game had 3 difficulty settings, easy, normal and hard the game would still be easy on easy and hard on hard, no? 

 

Would you start complaining that the game will be unplayable because characters in Dragon Age had armor and big weapons?

 

Also, hello! I'm new here

[Varus Praetor]

Have to agree.

 

Potions in combat rather than healing magic?  Stupid, but I can deal.  It kills the feel established by previous games, but a button press is a button press.

 

No OOC health regen, run back to camp for potions, etc.?  Utter fail and major disappiontment for this game.  If I weren't so excited for the story aspect it would be a pass on a lot of the game play aspects.

 

I'm really not sure where in the various complaints over past DA iterations the BioWare team managed to dig up "potion use is busted, healing magic is teh suk!" and decided that this was a worthwhile idea to implement.  If it came purely from their own minds I think there's a fair amount of "ain't broke/don't fix" that should be taken into consideration when it comes to healing in DA.