231 réponses à ce sujet

[Chernaya]

That's a one sided way of viewing innocents. Innocents have much to fear from mages as well. Which makes people like Elthina needed. She's someone who shows some concern for protecting common folk, but who shows concern for protecting mages as well. 

 

Anders only thinks of mages as the innocents. And Templars like Meredith only think of average citizens. You need someone who can think through each side. And that isn't a problem to be solved quickly or impatiently. Being so quick to judge and defend your own side is the very problem with people like Anders and Meredith.

 

I can agree that neither Anders nor Meredith would have ever been capable of fixing the issue in compromise because they were both blind to the other side of the situation. I don't think Elthina would have ever been the person either, though, because I honestly don't think she would have ever acted. She was very quiet, very comforting, but not action-oriented. At most she was just a voice to soothe and console people, but that wouldn't have worked forever either. To be honest, I think Kirkwall was screwed when it came to possible compromise because nobody there was ever fit for that outcome, if it's even possible at all. 

 

On the topic of Orsino, he was just as much to blame as Meredith imo. They both ignored and covered up horrible situations and were just crappy people in general abusing their power.

[Xilizhra]

How's this discussion turned about Anders and Elthina, when it was about Orsino?

 

Not sure if I'd call Orsino root of the problem in Kirkwall, but he's not blameless. The Circle was certainly corrupt, of all escapees only Ella and idiot DeLauncet weren't blood mages. So he either knew about the corruption, or was incompetent in handling his herd. And his help to Quentin wasn't blind - Orsino knew exactly what Quentin's experiment contained, yet instead of reporting him (his claim of fear of Meredith is baseless, since Quentin wasn't part of the Circle), he supplied the killer with educational materials.

For the sake of science, I suppose.

The educational materials were from times long past, before Quentin's wife died; Orsino severed ties with Quentin before that happened. And you can see just how far not being part of the Circle matters with Meredith from what she does after Anders blows up the Chantry.

 

Also, I can hardly blame anyone in Kirkwall's Circle for using blood magic.

[renfrees]

The educational materials were from times long past, before Quentin's wife died; Orsino severed ties with Quentin before that happened. And you can see just how far not being part of the Circle matters with Meredith from what she does after Anders blows up the Chantry.

 

Also, I can hardly blame anyone in Kirkwall's Circle for using blood magic.

Right.

 

My dear friend,

I have obtained the books you requested. I'll leave them at our usual hiding spot. Please collect them as soon as possible. I would hate to see them in the wrong hands!

Your last letter was fascinating! You have proven me wrong, once again, by doing the impossible. I shouldn't have doubted your resolve, and I hope you will keep me apprised of further progress.

Your friend and colleague,
O

[Xilizhra]

Right.

Yes indeed. Old letter from past times. Was not sent at any time during the course of the game.

[renfrees]

Yes indeed. Old letter from past times. Was not sent at any time during the course of the game.

Are you trying to convince yourself, or something? What's so hard with putting "doing the impossible" and "further progress" together? Along with books on Necromancy.

 

Edit: I guess Quentin was spicing his married life, that got Orsino so excited.

[dantares83]

Are you trying to convince yourself, or something? What's so hard with putting "doing the impossible" and "further progress" together? Along with books on Necromancy.

 

Edit: I guess Quentin was spicing his married life, that got Orsino so excited.

yah, i have never got the impression it was from the old times.

 

in any case, it is very recent, and Orisino is actually excited that you can bring back an undead with a mind of their own, not like those mindless skeltons that we see all the time.

[Xilizhra]

Are you trying to convince yourself, or something? What's so hard with putting "doing the impossible" and "further progress" together? Along with books on Necromancy.

 

Edit: I guess Quentin was spicing his married life, that got Orsino so excited.

No, I'm saying that it makes no sense. Quentin went into a fit of despair after his wife died that made him academically useless, something he confirms to Gascard. Then, when he came out of it, he started killing people to rebuild his wife. He wasn't doing research or experimenting, he was enacting previously achieved research to assemble his prize; there's no indication at all in his lair that he was undergoing research during the killings, and every indication that the process he wanted existed before he started killing.

[renfrees]

Xii, you're so funny in blindly defending any mage, that I don't even want to argue with you for more than a few posts. Otherwise it just gets on the scale of stupid.

[Xilizhra]

Xii, you're so funny in blindly defending any mage, that I don't even want to argue with you for more than a few posts. Otherwise it just gets on the scale of stupid.

Keep in mind that it's absolutely true that Quentin was a necromancer before his wife died; Gascard was seeking his knowledge beforehand, and Quentin confirms that he knew necromancy at that time when he says that he lost the ability to teach Gascard after his wife died.

[sylvanaerie]

Eh, whatever, head canon is still just head canon.  That's not how I perceived it at all, but that he was fully aware and complicit in what was happening. It matters little.  In the end he's as dead as all the other bad eggs in Kirkwall when my Hawke is done with them.  Wish that truly solved the problems instead of just making the toilet that is Kirkwall overflow all over the floor.

[Doominike]

The original (well translated) Caligula quote is "Would that Rome had but one throat, that I might slit it". Which in our case would have meant waiting until Meredith and Orsino were in the church too before blowing it up. Although since Caligula was...who he was, he probably meant every single person in Rome

 

There's a fan theory that Harvester!Orsino isn't a boss because he goes mindless (which makes sense because he transformed among allies before templars arrive) but because Hawke turns on him at the mention of Quentin

 

Anders' reason is, he does believe Elthina could have made a peace between the 2 sides, but he thinks there shouldn't be a peace because to him what templars do is unforgivable 

[Doominike]

An old woman who (at least in theory) had power over the templars. They're basically the chantry's army, Elthina was head of the chantry in Kirkwall. He cut off the beast's head because it wouldn't tell the body to stop being a dick

[Doominike]

Of course it's more complicated than that, analogies tend to simplify things. But that's still what he did, the templars and the circle are (well were at that time) technically run by the chantry, so Elthina was the person with power over both (again, technically) and thus the best person to try settling things peacefully. Anders doesn't want peace because "peace" is what the chantry calls the circle system. If you want another outcome than the status quo you have to bring down whatever is maintaining it, in this case the chantry. With this goal in mind, blowing up the main building of the organisation in charge with their leader inside is a pretty good move. 

[Doominike]

Half of his personality is a single-minded spirit at that point, and the other half is a man who spent a large portion of his life imprisoned and treated like a criminal from early childhood by them. Also he doesn't want concessions, he outright says "no compromise", he wants complete mage freedom. He doesn't want small changes to the status quo, he wants revolution. If you want extreme change you need to use extreme methods.

 

Meredith is a <4 letter C word> plain and simple

[KaiserShep]

This makes me lean toward having an Inquisitor that will snuff out all bloodmages on sight, with zero exceptions.

[Steelcan]

This makes me lean toward having an Inquisitor that will snuff out all bloodmages on sight, with zero exceptions.

"They have made my kingdom bleed, and I will not forget that"

 

-One True King

[gottaloveme]

Anders feels there is no compromise because neither circle nor mages (in Kirkwall at least) will come to the table to treat. All Elthina had to do was mediate. She could see what was going on and some of the possible outcomes for that situation. She did nothing. She chose not to act. Orsino also did not choose wisely, but when you're at bay with your back against a wall (with spikes) what do you do? Meredith would never have accepted any solution. Neither perhaps, would Justice. Oh Anders, what a foolish man.

[gottaloveme]

At the very least - at the very least - Orsino could have not turned into a Harvester and FOUGHT ME INSTEAD. I don't care how much despair he was in, that didn't accomplish anything worthwhile.

 

There's no excusing him. He's both a wuss and an idiot.

 

1. No excusing him at all

2. I bet you enjoyed the fight anyway

3. I thought Orsino looked more like a cannibal than a harvester

[Althix]

1) yes

2) reuse of harverster boss from DAO dlc? really?

3) eh...

[Doominike]

Presumably transforming into a harvester is a specific spell, so harvesters aren't unique. We fought another high dragon too