231 réponses à ce sujet

[gottaloveme]

I don't remember enjoying it actually. It was just dismaying. Like "Wtf? You too?"

 

TBH I kind of felt the same way. Does everyone have to go darkside? When you mentioned harvester I went to ME3, not Amgarrak. So my other comments were off the point. I tend to play for story rather than fights.

[SpiritMuse]

Orsino suddenly going abomination was just ridiculously out of character. Up until that moment he'd been one of the more reasonable faction leaders in the game, if more than a little disgruntled. Even crazier is that he's totally hostile right from the start even to mage-supporting Hawke. It would have been slightly less bad if he'd at first been an ally, and only when all the invading Templars were gone he would turn on the remaining people in the room.

[Vit246]

Orsino was poorly developed throughout the entire game and his connection to Quentin is and always will be contrived. 

[Doominike]

Orsino suddenly going abomination was just ridiculously out of character. Up until that moment he'd been one of the more reasonable faction leaders in the game, if more than a little disgruntled. Even crazier is that he's totally hostile right from the start even to mage-supporting Hawke. It would have been slightly less bad if he'd at first been an ally, and only when all the invading Templars were gone he would turn on the remaining people in the room.

There's fan theory that it's actually Hawke who immediately turns on him because he mentions working with Quentin

[Doominike]

They should have put that in game then. As it is, you can only call him out on Quentin if you side with Meredith.

Ya, would have made it less random. I guess you can RP/headcanon your Hawke to get pissed when it happens so it makes more sense

[WarriorOfLight999]

From what I've heard, Orsino was turned into a boss because the devs believed there weren't enough bosses in the game. They gave him a link to Quentin to give the player motivation to kill him, and there you go.

 

Personally, I disregard the whole Quentin/Harvester thing because of that developer decision. In my headcannon, Orsino was simply killed in all the fighting.

[Adanu]

I'm just quoting his own line. 

 

"I removed the chance of compromise because there is no compromise."

 

He (and Justice) are so obsessed in their own path that he saw no value in a "middle way". He'd rather thrive on conflict and war, and taking his chances at winning that way. So he spitefully takes her out, and drags the world into hell.

 

That's because there is no middle way when it comes to the Templars. He saw that, and all my Hawkes saw that.

[Doominike]

Blowing up the Gallows with Meredith in it would have made a stronger point imo

[Doominike]

Yeah, at least he'd actually be attacking his enemy then.

It would also have cripple if not outright prevented the immediate counter-attack and spared lots of innocents. Elthina probably would have stayed inactive, she never does anything aside crediting her imaginary friend for the Warden's work

[TEWR]

When in the seven hells did Orsino threaten to kill Bethany?

 

That was what Meredith did.

 

Orsino is not the bad egg of the Circle of Kirkwall.

[dragonflight288]

Orsino is not THE bad egg of the Circle. And if you take Gascard to Quentin's lair, it is reveald from Gascard that Quentin was teaching him blood magic and necromancy before his wife died, so Xil's comments on his research taking place before he started killing people to revive his wife does have some merit, and I don't see much evidence that outright discredits the assertion. 

 

Orsino is a rushed character, who the developers admitted they forced into being a boss fight, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever if you play pro-mage throughout the game, much like Grace's anger at Hawke if he helped her in Act 1, and nothing in the game ever indicates that he threatens those under his charge. 

 

Quite possibly hid their crimes, studied blood magic in secret, whether or not he practiced has been debated by I don't think he has any reason to lie at the point he admits it, and is poorly written in the last quest, most definitely. But not the bad egg. 

[Vit246]

The reason why Anders attacks the Chantry and not the Gallows is because the Chantry basically kept stalling on the Mage/Templar issue in Kirkwall. Both groups respect the Chantry just enough not to fight it out on the streets. But the Templars in practice have free reign to do whatever they want to the Circle Mages and the mages have no real recourse, legal or otherwise. The system is stocked against them. Elthina, representing the Chantry, has the power and authority to do something about Kirkwall. Reprimand the Templars. Replace Meredith. Make sure that law-abiding mages are protected. But she does nothing during the seven years that Anders has been witness to Kirkwall. She advocates compromise but seriously, is she actually working on that? Or is she just spouting useless platitudes like Wynne? Anders figures that with Elthina out of the way, the Templars and Mages in Kirkwall can finally fight it out and the issue can be settled once and for all. Put an end to the Templar - and by extension, the Chantry - rule. Or the mages lose, which will hardly be much different from their situation when Elthina was still alive.

People will certainly suffer and die, but people have already been suffering and dying for a long time now.

[Vit246]

People haven't been suffering on this scale yet. This is now total war, seaping into civilian areas. 

 

Regardless of Kirkwall, if he wants to support mages, he needed to look at the big picture and plan it with intelligence. Even the most idiotic rebellion units know how to manipulate public relations and get wider support (think of Hamas in Palestine). You can't win a war like this with only a crazed, minority base.

Well, Anders was running a free magical medical clinic and apparently writing and spreading manifestos about the injustice of Kirkwall. He was working with the Mage Underground which barely gets explored and we barely hear about it. And then it gets destroyed by Act 3. And by then Anders is still just one relatively insignificant guy. Orsino's probably been doing this PR stuff with an entire Circle at his behest and he still got nowhere.

I chalk this whole thing up as a result of a rushed game and writers who didn't think and plan things through and out.

[Doominike]

I still think blowing up the Gallows directly would've turned out better. It's so much of a better idea that I'm actually thinking the devs made him blow the chantry instead just so Meredith would live to be the final boss

[SpiritMuse]

But remember the Kirkwall Circle is held inside the Gallows, so if you blow that up you've also killed the mages.

Elthina was an ineffectual peacemaker. Sure, she prevented open fighting for years, but never lifted a finger to actually solve the problem. And in the mean time the situation was getting ever more dire, the mages' oppression worse and worse. Locked in their rooms as if they were prisoners, made Tranquil at the slightest provocation (even those that passed their Harrowing, which is just plain against the law). Meredith suspecting demons everywhere and actually beginning to consider Ser Alrik's "Tranquil Solution" a viable option. And in turn, more and more mages resorted to blood magic, because why not commit the crime if you're already found guilty of it?

Elthina should have recognized that Meredith had become too paranoid to make reasonable decisions anymore and deposed her. Or at least have forced the issue on a new viscount, which Meredith was also preventing because she wanted a viscount who "would do what was necessary", ie who agreed with her extremist views and would be in her pocket.

Instead she did nothing, while at the same time, by her presence alone, continually promising a peaceful resolution that would never actually come. I can see why Justice saw it necessary to remove her, even though, at the same time, it was a very shortsighted thing to do.

[Doominike]

One can probably tweak the alchemical dosage of the magic bomb to circumvent that. Don't destroy the entire Gallows area, just the building where Meredith had her office 

[Xilizhra]

They should have put that in game then. As it is, you can only call him out on Quentin if you side with Meredith.

I would say that that should not have been put in the game, as it completely rips out any chance for roleplaying in that instance. Abominably stupid as Orsino's transformation is, that would be even worse.

 

People haven't been suffering on this scale yet. This is now total war, seaping into civilian areas. 

 

Regardless of Kirkwall, if he wants to support mages, he needed to look at the big picture and plan it with intelligence. Even the most idiotic rebellion units know how to manipulate public relations and get wider support (think of Hamas in Palestine). You can't win a war like this with only a crazed, minority base.

 

edit: I keep saying Anders, but it's Justice mostly. He's the reason why it's so stupid. He doesn't even know how things actually work in the world. He probably doesn't even know how to wipe his ass. Yet he thinks an act like this is going to make everything magically change.

It was already in civilian areas; the vast majority of mages aren't soldiers.

Also, it's not total war, it's two guerrilla organizations attacking each other. The scale is much smaller than it would be between nations.