201 réponses à ce sujet

[Icy Magebane]

That may be a good for the chantry since all the ruthless political shark-types will be eliminated.

Wasn't Divine Justina a reformer though?

[TheEternalStudent]

Wasn't Divine Justina a reformer though?

She was, though preferring slow reformation to sudden declarations.

[raging_monkey]

She was, though preferring slow reformation to sudden declarations.

sudden declares would been wourse war wouldve broke out faster

[TheEternalStudent]

sudden declares would been wourse war wouldve broke out faster

Probably, I was just specifying the nature of her reformations. If she'd declared elves deserving of full rights, the Templars in the wrong at Kirkwall and too oppressive elsewhere, as well as any other reformations she had in mind, it would have been war, and not just the Chantry against everyone else, rather the small number of personal followers she had augmented with the people that would follow whatever the Divine said.
It would probably have been over in a matter of weeks, and a new, more conservative, Divine put in her place.

[raging_monkey]

True

[The Baconer]

She was, though preferring slow reformation to sudden declarations.

 

IIRC, she was also getting on Celene's ass for dealing with the Elven rebellion in Halamshiral, but didn't seem to care much about a bunch of nobles making a complete mockery of Andraste.

[TheEternalStudent]

IIRC, she was also getting on Celene's ass for dealing with the Elven rebellion in Halamshiral, but didn't seem to care much about a bunch of nobles making a complete mockery of Andraste.

The narrative left Val Royeaux almost as soon as the play was released, if she had called an Exalted March on the theater we wouldn't know. Not that she likely did so.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Don't worry. We just gotta wait till DA4 when they can retcon it back to them needing lyrium.

[Urazz]

Note that the blurb said that Cassandra doesn't suffer from lyrium addiction, not that she doesn't need lyrium.

 

There are several theories I can think of as to why the Seekers aren't addicted to lyrium like the templars are.

 

1. To get templar abilities doesn't require nearly as much lyrium as the templars take but taking more increasing the strength of templar abiltiies further but you will get addicted to lyrium this way.  The Seekers tend to watch the templars and tend to be the best of the best out of the entire templar order so maybe they don't need so much lyrium for those two reasons.  If they do face mages, then maybe they make up for weaker templar abilities with greater fighting skill.

 

2. There are those that have a strong connection to the fade that are on the verge of being mages but aren't. With that near mage status, they can tap into that source of power and thus need very little lyrium to get templar abilties and thus aren't in danger of getting addicted.  It would explain why Alistair was taking a lyrium potion because he said his templar powers were weakening.

 

3. There is another method to get templar abilities but it is extremely dangerous and hard to learn which is why lyrium is the more widely used way to get templar abilties since there would be too few templars to watch mages otherwise.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

3. There is another method to get templar abilities but it is extremely dangerous and hard to learn which is why lyrium is the more widely used way to get templar abilties since there would be too few templars to watch mages otherwise.

I really think it's this one. 

 

The Seekers have some alternate way to get Templar abilities without Lyrium, but that way is too dangerous or difficult for most, explaining why like the Wardens they only recruit the best of the best. The use of Lyrium is a way to mass produce the results of the other method so they have sufficient numbers of people who can use them.  

[raging_monkey]

Note that the blurb said that Cassandra doesn't suffer from lyrium addiction, not that she doesn't need lyrium.
 
There are several theories I can think of as to why the Seekers aren't addicted to lyrium like the templars are.
 
1. To get templar abilities doesn't require nearly as much lyrium as the templars take but taking more increasing the strength of templar abiltiies further but you will get addicted to lyrium this way.  The Seekers tend to watch the templars and tend to be the best of the best out of the entire templar order so maybe they don't need so much lyrium for those two reasons.  If they do face mages, then maybe they make up for weaker templar abilities with greater fighting skill.
 
2. There are those that have a strong connection to the fade that are on the verge of being mages but aren't. With that near mage status, they can tap into that source of power and thus need very little lyrium to get templar abilties and thus aren't in danger of getting addicted.  It would explain why Alistair was taking a lyrium potion because he said his templar powers were weakening.
 
3. There is another method to get templar abilities but it is extremely dangerous and hard to learn which is why lyrium is the more widely used way to get templar abilties since there would be too few templars to watch mages otherwise.

i like option 2

[Chari]

Seems more like an excuse not to make Cassandra a lyrium addict

It was stated that most Seekers are made out of elite Templars, hence they must have used lyrium prior to becoming a seeker. Cassandra being an exception always seemed weird to me. I guess it is possible that Seekers know some technique which can eliminate the downsides and addiction to lyrium without losing the abilities but they share the knowledge only with the Chosen Ones

Sort of like the Wardens do. If you're a good fighter, they'll try to save a tainted person. If not, well, sorry, not their problem

[The Baconer]

The narrative left Val Royeaux almost as soon as the play was released, if she had called an Exalted March on the theater we wouldn't know. Not that she likely did so.

 

She did not, she couldn't have.

[Ryzaki]

 

And in that comic series he was in, he said he took lyrium again to use his Templar powers, right?

 

 

I just replayed this conversation in DAO. Alistair said he never took lyrium to begin with.

 

So uh...How on earth could the lyrium that he never took wear off?

 

Meh. Retcon. I'm not even going to bother trying to explain it anymore.

 

As long as my templar Warden doesn't end up being a druggie whatever.

[Milan92]

Seems more like an excuse not to make Cassandra a lyrium addict

It was stated that most Seekers are made out of elite Templars, hence they must have used lyrium prior to becoming a seeker. Cassandra being an exception always seemed weird to me. I guess it is possible that Seekers know some technique which can eliminate the downsides and addiction to lyrium without losing the abilities but they share the knowledge only with the Chosen Ones

Sort of like the Wardens do. If you're a good fighter, they'll try to save a tainted person. If not, well, sorry, not their problem

 

Cassandra is royalty. Which obviously gave her privileges.

 

Like joining the Seekers right away.

[Br3admax]

So uh...How on earth could the lyrium that he never took wear off?

Because he did take it before? And the line was retconned to never happen? 

[Ryzaki]

Because he did take it before? And the line was retconned to never happen? 

 

So it's a retcon as I said. Whatever long as the warden isn't forced to taking lyrium I don't care.

[Br3admax]

I don't see why it wouldn't be. Are specializations important in the Keep? If not, I doubt it matters to the Warden. 

[TheEternalStudent]

She did not, she couldn't have.

Why couldn't she. I don't know how long it takes to declare an exalted march, but the theater can't be more than 10 miles away from the heart of the Templar order.

[The Baconer]

Why couldn't she. I don't know how long it takes to declare an exalted march, but the theater can't be more than 10 miles away from the heart of the Templar order.

 

This is occurs during the same period in which the Templars are about to split (or have already split, Duke Gaspard might have mentioned it but I can't remember).

 

Even without the Templars (which don't form the primary force of an Exalted March anyway), there would be serious complications with the nobles, and there was no longer a way to contact Celene quickly because she went of to Halamshiral (calling an Exalted March in her absence is a no-go... and a no-no).

[TheEternalStudent]

This is occurs during the same period in which the Templars are about to split (or have already split, Duke Gaspard might have mentioned it but I can't remember).

 

Even without the Templars (which don't form the primary force of an Exalted March anyway), there would be serious complications with the nobles, and there was no longer a way to contact Celene quickly because she went of to Halamshiral (calling an Exalted March in her absence is a no-go... and a no-no).

Getting to do the Templars to let mages free or something else they don't want would be unsuccessful. Letting them sack a theater that just insulted Andraste herself would probably be a lot easier.

 

How many nobles do you think would be on the barricades (or sending their forces there) ready to defend the theater's rights to freedom of speech? This would be like a theater in Rome during the peak of Catholic power having a play in which Judas is the noble hero and Jesus is banging Peter.

[The Baconer]

Getting to do the Templars to let mages free or something else they don't want would be unsuccessful. Letting them sack a theater that just insulted Andraste herself would probably be a lot easier.

 

And would also cause a lot of political and possibly social headaches down the line.

 

 

How many nobles do you think would be on the barricades (or sending their forces there) ready to defend the theater's rights to freedom of speech?

 

The problem would be getting the nobles (or the city guard) to comply with conscription in lieu of using Templars to do it, without any support from Celene.

 

If she did try to use the Templars, trying to burn down a building in the capital city right after Celene leaves would most likely cause a standoff with the city guards, and there's no guarantee they would yield without the Empress' authorization. 

 

This would be like a theater in Rome during the peak of Catholic power having a play in which Judas is the noble hero and Jesus is banging Peter.

 

Which makes her lack of concern that much more confusing, I agree.

[Tevinter Rose]

If true, my mage is going to have a field day with this. Josephine, get the PR campaign ready. "The Chantry's unnecessarily drug addicted stooges succumb to mind altering, body deforming hardcore substances in midst of continent wide murdering spree." Think the templar order is done and hopefully the Chantry has no political capital left to weasel out of this reputation sinker.

 

Same here, my mage will do the exact same thing and hope the Chantry's militant wing will slide into irrelevance as a result.

[Steelcan]

It still amuses me that people think such shifting changes will be possible

[dragonflight288]

It amuses me that people some people will bend over backwards to ignore the part of Cassandra's class description that says "as a Seeker, she has full access to templar talents without lyrium addiction."