3034 réponses à ce sujet

[seraphymon]

Then in your second playthrough, you can just rely on item drops for your stat increases.

 

Just like how those who considered manual attribute placement a hassle used the auto-assign.

 

Relying on drops is no different than DAO/DA2, essentially taking out  your choice in stats  pretty much.

 

The difference is the magnitude of that hassle. a few seconds to assign points? Or hours, if not days?  How about an option to give me all the stuff I need for crafting?  Or keeping what I have through subsequent playthroughs? Highly doubtful.

 

Playing a rogue build on a warrior class is not variation. I have no idea how you see it that way.

I have no problem seeing it that way.  No doubt, DAo needed more distinction, but they went to far and after 4 years didnt do anything to solve it. How about, instead of the 10 or so drapes we can choose in skyhold be used to create new animations and talents to accommodate hybrid builds?

[KoorahUK]

Relying on drops is no different than DAO/DA2, essentially taking out your choice in stats pretty much.

The difference is the magnitude of that hassle. a few seconds to assign points? Or hours, if not days? How about an option to give me all the stuff I need for crafting? Or keeping what I have through subsequent playthroughs? Highly doubtful.

I have no problem seeing it that way. No doubt, DAo needed more distinction, but they went to far and after 4 years didnt do anything to solve it. How about, instead of the 10 or so drapes we can choose in skyhold be used to create new animations and talents to accommodate hybrid builds?

Drapes don't have to be balanced or extensively playtested.

[seraphymon]

Drapes don't have to be balanced or extensively playtested.

Not true! there is the difficult balancing of the drape colors with the colors of the floor tile or walls, and if it makes it appealing to the eye, depending on the design and emblems. Dont you watch HGTV?

[Elhanan]

Drapes don't have to be balanced or extensively playtested.

Based on casual wear, they might be.

[Genshie]

I really don't see the issue here since a lot of rpgs already do this or have been doing this a long time. (I am actually happy that I have one less numbers game I have to mess with now. I hated what they did to rogues in DA2 since they took all the fun from them. Yes, lets change the dodge stat mechanic completely into something else)

[Elhanan]

I really don't see the issue here since a lot of rpgs already do this or have been doing this a long time. (I am actually happy that I have one less numbers game I have to mess with now. I hated what they did to rogues in DA2 since they took all the fun from them. Yes, lets change the dodge stat mechanic completely into something else)

Because this RPG series allowed choice and Player customization of their Attributes; now it doesn't. While I also enjoy the ME series, it always had a set character.

Q: What fun was removed in DA2?

[Muspade]

Because this RPG series allowed choice and Player customization of their Attributes; now it doesn't. While I also enjoy the ME series, it always had a set character.

Q: What fun was removed in DA2?

 

A: Weapon choice for rogues, dialogue choices that "mattered" and visually pleasing environments. To summarize.

[Genshie]

Because this RPG series allowed choice and Player customization of their Attributes; now it doesn't. While I also enjoy the ME series, it always had a set character.

Q: What fun was removed in DA2?

In terms for rogues that bothered me: They screwed over the stealth mechanic! (With it having only a set amount of time and not being sustainable as long as I don't poke something) And changed the main dodge stat.

[Ashevajak]

I always found the stat increases to be a bit...wierd, as a system, truth be told.  Like, 3 stat increases every level leads to an exponential power increase from level one to level 30.

 

This doesn't strictly speaking matter in a game like Dragon Age where, IIRC, most encounters are levelled or level related (I understand some in Origins were not, in order to lock off areas intended for higher level gameplay, like the Deep Roads, but by and large that seemed to be the case), but having a system where the stats could vary so widely did always bug me.  (As an aside, I'd like to see more RPGs, Dragon Age included, return to unlevelled encounters and zones).

 

Personally, I preferred the D&D system where you could obtain small, but still significant stat increases by levelling or through significant magical items.  But maybe that's because I don't like big numbers where small numbers will do the job just as well, and D&D does (or did, I'm not up to date with that game at all anymore) of keeping stats under 20 until the late game. 

 

I'm not sure about this system, necessarily, but I wasnt super keen on the previous system, so I'm willing to see how it goes.  Like with the healing, if it yields more tactical gameplay, I'll probably end up liking it (through reliance on right gear choices for the enemies one is facing, maybe?  Though that could lead to quite a bit of metagaming, which I'm not so fond of).

[xkg]

a lot of rpgs already do this or have been doing this a long time. 

 

Could you name few of them ?

[Genshie]

Mass Effect, Baldur's gate, WoW does it (hello equipment and talent tree. Heck a ton of MMO's do it), majority of action roleplaying games do it. A few more being Persona, Borderlands (Badass points I guess works sort of like attribute points), and Destiny...  List goes on and on. Equipment based stats being the main focus of stat raising/adjust is the norm now.

[Fetunche]

Mass Effect, Baldur's gate, WoW does it (hello equipment and talent tree. Heck a ton of MMO's do it), majority of action roleplaying games do it. A few more being Persona, Borderlands (Badass points I guess works sort of like attribute points), and Destiny...  List goes on and on. Equipment based stats being the main focus of stat raising/adjust is the norm now.

That doesn't make it right.

[Dunbartacus]

That doesn't make it right.

Doesn't make it wrong either. We still get control of our build its just the method that's changed whether you like / indifferent / dislike this change is subjective.

[xkg]

Mass Effect, Baldur's gate, WoW does it (hello equipment and talent tree. Heck a ton of MMO's do it), majority of action roleplaying games do it. A few more being Persona, Borderlands (Badass points I guess works sort of like attribute points), and Destiny...  List goes on and on. Equipment based stats being the main focus of stat raising/adjust is the norm now.

 

So, Mass Effect is the only relevant in this disscussion. Baldur's Gate lets you mess with your attributes at character creation. But that was purely because of the licensed PNP tabletop rules they have used. Its folowers, Like Icewind Dale 2, NWN, NWN2, KOTOR used the newer version and they all had manual distribution, at the start and on level-ups.

 

WoW and Destiny are MMOs (the latter being an MMO that happens to have single player part) they need gear based mechanics.

Persona is jRPG - different kind of gameplay and mechanics.

 

 

Let's make it more clear, can you name a few party-based non-action WRPGs that won't let you build your character through attributes allocation, either during character creation or on level-ups ?

 

 

EDIT: I forgot about Borderlands, but since I never seen/played this one, can't say much about it.

[Keroko]

Not a bad system, but one that gives itself over to repetition and tedium. Personally, I choose not to comply, and use the Console; others use mods. For DAI, we may not have either.

Now we have a system where crafting becomes prioritized, and while some like such things, others don't. Personally, I loathe Alchemy, and am still hoping that I can skip it, but it seems more likely that picking flowers along the way will be part of the norm....

If you want to minmax? That's hard to go around. The vast majority of stats come from items.

Doesn't stop you from picking up item drops and going forward with that, though.
 

There may be more to choose from initially, but with 25 lvls, 3 classes with a single Specialization, weapon and armor restrictions, and only 8 hotkeys, the results seemed lessened to me.

Origins capped at 25 as well. And while you only get a single specialization, each specialization has almost triple the amount of talents (11 as opposed to Origins' 4).

And less hotkeys does not detract from variety. Quite the opposite, limitation tends to increase variety. If there was no limit on the amount of talents or advanced classes you could pick, there would barely be any builds in Origins either. Mage especially would just be "mage."

With 8 hotkeys, you have to choose which abilities to use. Which means your stealthy dagger rogue might play very different from someone else's stealthy dagger rogue. Despite both being stealthy dagger rogues.

I understand a lot of people may not like it, but it doesn't decrease variety.

[azarhal]

Origins capped at 25 as well. And while you only get a single specialization, each specialization has almost triple the amount of talents (11 as opposed to Origins' 4).

And less hotkeys does not detract from variety. Quite the opposite, limitation tends to increase variety. If there was no limit on the amount of talents or advanced classes you could pick, there would barely be any builds in Origins either. Mage especially would just be "mage."

With 8 hotkeys, you have to choose which abilities to use. Which means your stealthy dagger rogue might play very different from someone else's stealthy dagger rogue. Despite both being stealthy dagger rogues.

 

About the "I only have 8 hotkeys" thing. That is how many active abilities you will have if you max two trees in DAI. Which require you to reach level 24-25. Which happens to be the lower bound soft level cap...

[Nohvarr]

Let's make it more clear, can you name a few party-based non-action WRPGs that won't let you build your character through attributes allocation, either during character creation or on level-ups ?

And the goal post is moved.

[Medhia_Nox]

It's never been done before!  We shouldn't start now! 

 

Let's get rid of Perks, the Warroom, Advisors, Agents, Skyhold, the committed gay character, crafting gear piece by piece, and modding potions... because none of them were in DA games before DA:I

[Keroko]

Relying on drops is no different than DAO/DA2, essentially taking out your choice in stats pretty much.

The difference is the magnitude of that hassle. a few seconds to assign points? Or hours, if not days? How about an option to give me all the stuff I need for crafting? Or keeping what I have through subsequent playthroughs? Highly doubtful.

A rather unfair comparison. Putting points takes seconds, maybe minutes if you want to research and calculate. But so does crafting. It's the gathering of resources that can take hours, but then so does leveling. Especially if you want reach level cap and have to hunt down all sidequests.

Let's make it more clear, can you name a few party-based non-action WRPGs that won't let you build your character through attributes allocation, either during character creation or on level-ups ?

That's a rather extensive move of the goalpost. You've crossed all action-RPG's, JRPG's and MMORPG's from the list, as well as excluded all solo-RPG's despite how much of a household name games like Skyrim have gotten.

Why? Those RPG's prove that item-centric stat increases are common among RPG's.

[EnduinRaylene]

Sad to see a definite confirmation by Mike of auto stat increases at level, but at least they seem to be very marginal when compared to passive upgrades and equipment. They can't be more than 1 or 2 points per level from what we've seen, if that. I guess it's necessary to at least have some baseline of increases due to the large variation in stat distribution that an equipment based system can provide.

 

Really I'm a lot more curious as to the mechanics of how attributes work and affect things since there seems to be the ability for a far greater range among different players than in previous games due to it being mostly equipment based. Given then we've seen some level 20 items with +36 and others with just +6 there seems like stats could varying significantly between players and so they might not have as big an impact on overall prowess/performance than they previously did. Or maybe they do and those +36 type weapons and equipment are just supposed to be that rare and powerful.

[Rawgrim]

And the goal post is moved.

 

No he didn't. He just clarified what he meant in the first place.

[Elhanan]

A: Weapon choice for rogues, dialogue choices that "mattered" and visually pleasing environments. To summarize.

Based on the reply I sought, it appears that you were incorrect on speaking for others on all counts. Food for thought....

[Rawgrim]

When the game places the base stats on the character for the player, it isn't the player's character anymore. Its the game creating the character for him. Every time you play a sword and shield warrior, he will have exactly the same base stats. The only choice here is what he wears in each game. This is Diablo 3: Inquisition. More or less.

[Elhanan]

In terms for rogues that bothered me: They screwed over the stealth mechanic! (With it having only a set amount of time and not being sustainable as long as I don't poke something) And changed the main dodge stat.

MotA DLC had a different Stealth mechanic, but I also miss the non-combat form. And while I did not use much Cunning in DAO, since the Lockpicking/ Disable Traps relied on it, my Rogue had at least 40, I believe.

Thanks for answering.

[Elhanan]

I always found the stat increases to be a bit...wierd, as a system, truth be told.  Like, 3 stat increases every level leads to an exponential power increase from level one to level 30.
 
This doesn't strictly speaking matter in a game like Dragon Age where, IIRC, most encounters are levelled or level related (I understand some in Origins were not, in order to lock off areas intended for higher level gameplay, like the Deep Roads, but by and large that seemed to be the case), but having a system where the stats could vary so widely did always bug me.  (As an aside, I'd like to see more RPGs, Dragon Age included, return to unlevelled encounters and zones).
 
Personally, I preferred the D&D system where you could obtain small, but still significant stat increases by levelling or through significant magical items.  But maybe that's because I don't like big numbers where small numbers will do the job just as well, and D&D does (or did, I'm not up to date with that game at all anymore) of keeping stats under 20 until the late game. 
 
I'm not sure about this system, necessarily, but I wasnt super keen on the previous system, so I'm willing to see how it goes.  Like with the healing, if it yields more tactical gameplay, I'll probably end up liking it (through reliance on right gear choices for the enemies one is facing, maybe?  Though that could lead to quite a bit of metagaming, which I'm not so fond of).

In D&D, even small bonuses mattered in the design for those scores above Normal. Am not certain if this is the case here.

And if Passives and Item bonuses are replacing the Lvl Up bonuses, expect much of the same high scores to be in play; perhaps not as high, but still higher than twenty.