3034 réponses à ce sujet

[Nohvarr]

The only choice here is what he wears in each game. This is Diablo 3: Inquisition. More or less.

The Gear you choose also affects the base stats, plus any abilities on said weapons (like an ability to cause 'Walking Bomb' or increase the effectiveness of other abilities) alter your tactics (Likely don't want to use 'Walking Bomb' with friendly fire on). The skills you choose can also increase your base attributes allowing you the choice of altering your play style and that of your companions since we've seen Sera being speced for twin daggers. Then there's the Inquisition perks you choose which can do things like increase your knowledge on certain subjects giving you more dialogue options or grant you bonuses to combat like increase potion capacity. We also now know thanks to the latest twitch stream that you can choose to investigate certain enemies (like Darkspawn) to earn increased damage against them, or choose to avoid fights completely by taking advantage of an enemy's belief to get them on your side.

[Rawgrim]

The Gear you choose also affects the base stats, plus any abilities on said weapons (like an ability to cause 'Walking Bomb' or increase the effectiveness of other abilities) alter your tactics (Likely don't want to use 'Walking Bomb' with friendly fire on). The skills you choose can also increase your base attributes allowing you the choice of altering your play style and that of your companions since we've seen Sera being speced for twin daggers. Then there's the Inquisition perks you choose which can do things like increase your knowledge on certain subjects giving you more dialogue options or grant you bonuses to combat like increase potion capacity. We also now know thanks to the latest twitch stream that you can choose to investigate certain enemies (like Darkspawn) to earn increased damage against them, or choose to avoid fights completely by taking advantage of an enemy's belief to get them on your side.

 

Just like diablo 3. Its all about the gear. Diablo 3 is also limited to how many abilities you can fit on controller too. Even though you can have 50 abilities, you can only use 8 of them. Exactly like in DA:I.

[PhroXenGold]

Just like diablo 3. Its all about the gear. Diablo 3 is also limited to how many abilities you can fit on controller too. Even though you can have 50 abilities, you can only use 8 of them. Exactly like in DA:I.

 

Which is not neccesarily a bad thing...

[Rawgrim]

Which is not neccesarily a bad thing...

 

It is handholding and dumbing down. Always a bad thing. I like Diablo 3, and I play it quite a bit. But it requires next to no thinking at all, and it is mostly just a casual experience. The options in the game are extremely limited too. Sure I can swap abilities here and there, and use item that boosts different stats, but it basically just affects the way I kill stuff (wich is the only point of the game). Its all cosmetic.

[KoorahUK]

When the game places the base stats on the character for the player, it isn't the player's character anymore. Its the game creating the character for him. Every time you play a sword and shield warrior, he will have exactly the same base stats. The only choice here is what he wears in each game. This is Diablo 3: Inquisition. More or less.

Assuming a character is nothing more than a collection of numbers. 

My character is going to be defined by the abilities I choose and the choices I make. My Champion 2 hander, diplomatic, noble and stern, is going to be completely different from my Reaver 2 hander, who will be flippant, selfish and power hungry. Attributes will reflect a few physical characteristics where appropriate, as a product of the choices I make or their natural growth over time. 

 

Personally I'd prefer there were no attribute points on level up at all rather than having some distributed for me. I do appreciate everyones entitled to their own opinion, but saying this means "it isn't the players character anymore" is a massive, massive stretch ..... in my opinion.

[Eledran]

I do enjoy customizing my characters passives and stats.

 

I'm not overly sad to see this go however. Assigning attributes has always felt more like a chore to me: you only start to see the effect over many levels and ultimately all viable builds fall into three main categories: offensive, defensive or mixed; with many stats being pointless to pick for a certain character.

 

I'd rather have deep passive skillboxes that actually change the way your character plays significantly (not only through stats but procs / charges / etc.) than points any day.

[Rawgrim]

Assuming a character is nothing more than a collection of numbers. 

My character is going to be defined by the abilities I choose and the choices I make. My Champion 2 hander, diplomatic, noble and stern, is going to be completely different from my Reaver 2 hander, who will be flippant, selfish and power hungry. Attributes will reflect a few physical characteristics where appropriate, as a product of the choices I make or their natural growth over time. 

 

Personally I'd prefer there were no attribute points on level up at all rather than having some distributed for me. I do appreciate everyones entitled to their own opinion, but saying this means "it isn't the players character anymore" is a massive, massive stretch ..... in my opinion.

 

Its not really that much a stretch anymore. I remember people saying the same thing about Hawke, when DA2 came out. This time I get to play the guy with sword and shield, the the guy with 2 daggers, guy with bow, guy with big sword, or a mage. Within those 5 choices the game does half the leveling up for me. Deciding for me that this fellow is a strong guy, for example. Even in DA2 that choice was up to me. Now I get 5 cardboard characters. The amount of buttons on a controller limits the way I can use his abilities.

[Nohvarr]

Just like diablo 3. Its all about the gear. Diablo 3 is also limited to how many abilities you can fit on controller too. Even though you can have 50 abilities, you can only use 8 of them. Exactly like in DA:I.

You ignored all the other choices I mentioned and focused only on the gear, which is only part of the whole. You ignored the ability to increase attributes via talents, you ignored the choice to gain new abilities and new options via the growing Inquisition. You ignored the fact you have options other than combat to solve problems. So no, the game is not likely Diablo 3 despite some superficial similarities. But you're not going to listen or believe that till you play the game so it was silly of me to even bother trying.

[Rawgrim]

You ignored all the other choices I mentioned and focused only on the gear, which is only part of the whole. You ignored the ability to increase attributes via talents, you ignored the choice to gain new abilities and new options via the growing Inquisition. You ignored the fact you have options other than combat to solve problems. So no, the game is not likely Diablo 3 despite some superficial similarities. But you're not going to listen or believe that till you play the game so it was silly of me to even bother trying.

 

The topic is about choices being removed. Not whoever disagrees with you.

 

I ignored them because they don't really affect the character himself. Except for the passive skills. I think you get passives in Diablo 3 too. Very simmilar to the ones you get in DA:I, actually.

 

The inquisition isn't the character. It is an outside force that the character can use as an asset. It is an item, really.

 

Options to solve stuff outside of combat is good.

 

Having combat and a level system that is pretty much an exact copy of Diablo 3 isn't a superficial similarity.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Rawgrim:  What do you define as "part of the character"? 

If we "really" wanted to be pain in the ass nitpicky... skills are not inherent to a person.  They're learned and can be lost by lack of use.  

[xkg]

And the goal post is moved.

 

Nothing was moved, I just wasn't clear in my first one. I assumed we are talking about non action, party based western RPGs games - DAI is going to be one of them. That some MMOs or jRPGs has this mechanics changes nothing. Different genres differene gameplay. Simple as that.

[Rawgrim]

@Rawgrim:  What do you define as "part of the character"? 

If we "really" wanted to be pain in the ass nitpicky... skills are not inherent to a person.  They're learned and can be lost by lack of use.  

 

Part of his body or "brain". Everything that can be added or removed via items and whatnot isn't part of the character.

 

Skills can be lost by lack of use, yes. But not in 2 minutes.

[Dunbartacus]

Part of his body or "brain". Everything that can be added or removed via items and whatnot isn't part of the character.

 

Skills can be lost by lack of use, yes. But not in 2 minutes.

You choose to use certain equipment so it is part of the character imo.

[Elhanan]

If you want to minmax? That's hard to go around. The vast majority of stats come from items.

Doesn't stop you from picking up item drops and going forward with that, though.
 

Origins capped at 25 as well. And while you only get a single specialization, each specialization has almost triple the amount of talents (11 as opposed to Origins' 4).

And less hotkeys does not detract from variety. Quite the opposite, limitation tends to increase variety. If there was no limit on the amount of talents or advanced classes you could pick, there would barely be any builds in Origins either. Mage especially would just be "mage."

With 8 hotkeys, you have to choose which abilities to use. Which means your stealthy dagger rogue might play very different from someone else's stealthy dagger rogue. Despite both being stealthy dagger rogues.

I understand a lot of people may not like it, but it doesn't decrease variety.

Don't care about min/ max much at all, but also do not wish to increase a greater loss of choice by accepting loot drops only. Seems crafting will be involved, even if I do not care for it.

DAA had a cap of 35.

And one could have a thousand choices, but if the system only allows for eight selections, then many other possibilities remain shelved. That appears to lessen choice.

[Nohvarr]

The topic is about choices being removed. Not whoever disagrees with you.

 

The inquisition isn't the character. It is an outside force that the character can use as an asset. It is an item, really.

 

Options to solve stuff outside of combat is good.

The Inquisition is a character whose growth you dictate so I don't see why the choices you make there do not count.

 

Having combat and a level system that is pretty much an exact copy of Diablo 3 isn't a superficial similarity.

The ability to pause and play, the ability to assign tasks, hold positions, control a group of part members, dictate a variety of builds, build up an inquisition that has a significant impact on gameplay, and more all while exploring a large open areas with more options than kill everything that's not you, just doesn't sound very Diablo-like to me at all.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Rawgrim:  So... if I took away Excalibur - Arthur would still be King Arthur? 

Not saying you're definition is wrong - it can't be as it's yours.  

 

But I will say it's not the conventional definition of heroes. 

[Fandango]

I do appreciate everyones entitled to their own opinion, but saying this means "it isn't the players character anymore" is a massive, massive stretch ..... in my opinion.

To say that the Inquisitor isn't as much our own character as he/she would be if we managed those attribute points directly is less 'massive stretch' than it is 'absolute fact'.

[Rawgrim]

The Inquisition is a character whose growth you dictate so I don't see why the choices you make there do not count.

 

 

 

The ability to pause and play, the ability to assign tasks, hold positions, control a group of part members, dictate a variety of builds, build up an inquisition that has a significant impact on gameplay, and more all while exploring a large open areas with more options than kill everything that's not you, just doesn't sound very Diablo-like to me at all.

 

The inquisition is an organization you can improve, yes. They have nothing to do with level up choices. That bit is about in-game roleplaying choices. It is the same as fixing the Normandy in ME2. The ship is an item Shep needs to be tip top if he wants to succeed. Think of it as a symbiotic relationship. 2 things working together, but are apart, for a greater good.

 

You are just trying very hard to keep it from looking like Diablo. Are you paid to blindly defend every move Bioware makes? Just curious. I have heard several people, recently, go on about how it looks pretty much like Diablo stuffed into Skyrim. The combat does look like Diablo. The abilities look like Diablo. the animations look like diablo. the focus on items looks like diablo.

[Illyria God King of the Primordium]

To say that the Inquisitor isn't as much our own character as he/she would be if we managed those attribute points directly is less 'massive stretch' than it is 'absolute fact'.

I...disagree.  From personal experience, stats added nothing to the understanding of who my characters were, or my like or dislike of them.  I didn't drop playing Cousland because he had **** will, I did it because I wasn't finding playing him very interesting.  

[Rawgrim]

@Rawgrim:  So... if I took away Excalibur - Arthur would still be King Arthur? 

Not saying you're definition is wrong - it can't be as it's yours.  

 

But I will say it's not the conventional definition of heroes. 

 

Yes. If you took the sword away he would still be King Arthur. Excalibur just confirmed his identity to others. Take the lightsaber away from Luke Skywalker and he is still Luke Skywalker too.

 

Heroism is about defying your fears and risking things you hold dear, in the face of great opposition and peril. It is not about what kick ass weapon you use, but why you do it, and at what cost.

[Elhanan]

Assuming a character is nothing more than a collection of numbers. 

My character is going to be defined by the abilities I choose and the choices I make. My Champion 2 hander, diplomatic, noble and stern, is going to be completely different from my Reaver 2 hander, who will be flippant, selfish and power hungry. Attributes will reflect a few physical characteristics where appropriate, as a product of the choices I make or their natural growth over time. 
 
Personally I'd prefer there were no attribute points on level up at all rather than having some distributed for me. I do appreciate everyones entitled to their own opinion, but saying this means "it isn't the players character anymore" is a massive, massive stretch ..... in my opinion.

Abilities can be chosen, but not Attributes; the base design. Those are the same for everyone.

I like SWTOR, and had a good time while playing. That said, there were hundreds of the same builds with the same Followers in the same lines for the same quests. Unique or rare does not meet such an environment.

My Champion 2H will have the same base design, as would a 2H reaver, were I to ever play one. Certainly, personalities and choices during each campaign can vary, but the base designs are all the same; nothing varied about them.

It would seem you will love DA-MP, as you appear to get your wish. However, I desire to have more control in my solo game.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Rawgrim:  Okay - why is there a need to be nasty?  It's not a "mistake" just because you don't like it.

 

I've got an RPG pedigree too - and I say it's totally fine and not at all important for my character.

 

Cause how "I" define my character are the choices I make and the personality I take... the numbers can be a reflection of that, but in no way am I slave to numbers as I find that terribly mechanical and trite.  

 

Gear is a defining trait of a character... just like skills and attributes... and the choices you make with NPCs and the Inquisition.

 

Have you even played Diablo 3?  

[Illyria God King of the Primordium]

The inquisition is an organization you can improve, yes. They have nothing to do with level up choices. That bit is about in-game roleplaying choices. It is the same as fixing the Normandy in ME2. The ship is an item Shep needs to be tip top if he wants to succeed. Think of it as a symbiotic relationship. 2 things working together, but are apart, for a greater good.

 

You are just trying very hard to keep it from looking like Diablo. Are you paid to blindly defend every move Bioware makes? Just curious. I have heard several people, recently, go on about how it looks pretty much like Diablo stuffed into Skyrim. The combat does look like Diablo. The abilities look like Diablo. the animations look like diablo. the focus on items looks like diablo.

You are also trying very hard to make it look like Diablo.  I have heard nothing of the sort.  

 

And the ship in ME2 is nothing like the Inquisition as far as I've seen it.  There were no alternative choices, no potential builds for the Normandy - just three crucial upgrades and some non-essential bullshit.  

 

Why is the character simply their physique to you and not anything else?  It simply seems bizarre to me as a definition of character.  

[KoorahUK]

To say that the Inquisitor isn't as much our own character as he/she would be if we managed those attribute points directly is less 'massive stretch' than it is 'absolute fact'.

Agreed, but thats not what was said, not was it what I was responding to.

[Rawgrim]

You are also trying very hard to make it look like Diablo.  I have heard nothing of the sort.  

 

And the ship in ME2 is nothing like the Inquisition as far as I've seen it.  There were no alternative choices, no potential builds for the Normandy - just three crucial upgrades and some non-essential bullshit.  

 

Why is the character simply their physique to you and not anything else?  It simply seems bizarre to me as a definition of character.  

 

Have a look at rpg forums and such and you will see it.

 

My point was that they are both an outside element. Not a part of the base character.

 

You are conveniently forgetting Willpower and Cunning. Also part of the stats. If you want your character to be really cunnng, that should be up to you, and not some default.