3034 réponses à ce sujet

[boissiere]

About crafting. We know that we can have receipes. But are there level in crafting or not?

[Medhia_Nox]

@boissiere:  When you say "level" what do you mean?

 

You mean like in an MMO.  No, there has been no indication of that... like "Make 100 silver ingots to boost your crafting skill."  No, that won't be how it's done.

[Morroian]

Not actually true.

 

(Numbers taken out of my ass not intented to be viewed as what is actually in the game)

If there are a 100 skills and the tactics associated to them in the game and I can only "equip" 8 I still have 100 skills and tactics available to me. I'm just limited to 8 at any moment in time. Thats not a subtle difference.  How we equip our skills becaomes part of the tactical consideration and puts more EMPHASIS on this aspect of character customization which is a type of tactic in and of itself.

 

Its a strategic decision not a tactical one. 

 

It occurred to me that 1 way of having such a restriction but still allowing more choice and replayability is to actually increase the number of classes, like with DAMP or with the ME series having more than 3 classes.

[Kleon]

Ok lets look at the character customization options for Origins vs Inquisition to see which comes out ahead based on the info we have.

 

Origins: All attributes allocated by player on lvl up

             Predetermined armors and weapons

             Talent trees, 1 ability per lvl 

             More weapon types (Greater variety of weapon types)

 

Inquisition: Majority of attributes fully controllable through equipment

                  In depth crafting system allowing you to use equipment with the exact stats you desire 

                  Talent trees, 1 ability per lvl 

                  Talent trees independent of weapon type ( Greater variety within each weapon type available)

 

Basically on paper its a tie with origins and inquisitions having advantages over each other. The truth is we won't know which has a greater variety of builds until we play the game ourselves and become familiar with the game systems such as attributes for example and what each one actually does in inquisition. 

 

That is just one giant load of crap.

 

You keep saying that less is more. I can practicly translate your posts into one sentence: "3 is a higher number than 5" - that is what you keep repeating. Scandalous.

[Dunbartacus]

That is just one giant load of crap.

 

You keep saying that less is more. I can practicly translate your posts into one sentence: "3 is a higher number than 5" - that is what you keep repeating. Scandalous.

again please go away or give some evidence as to why my post is incorrect.

 

baseless statements just make you look like a dimwit. 

[Kleon]

again please go away or give some evidence as to why my post is incorrect.

 

baseless statements just make you look like a dimwit. 

 

Must I copy/paste or quote my own posts? I question your ability to read with understanding. 

[AlanC9]

8 abilities restriction encoureges cookie-cutter builds, because who is going to remain calm when they need to swap abilties all the time?

Calm? So the problem with the new system is that players will panic?

[Dunbartacus]

Must I copy/paste or quote my own posts? I question your ability to read with understanding. 

My argument was not to quote "3 is a higher number than 5" please try again. I'd love to have a nice reasonable debate with you as unlikely as that seems.

[In Exile]

Its a strategic decision not a tactical one. 

 

It occurred to me that 1 way of having such a restriction but still allowing more choice and replayability is to actually increase the number of classes, like with DAMP or with the ME series having more than 3 classes.

 

But those games have fixed talent trees. More "classes" are just the equivalent of class specific talent trees for SP. 

[Kleon]

My argument was not to quote "3 is a higher number than 5" please try again. I'd love to have a nice reasonable debate with you as unlikely as that seems.

 

There can be no reasonable debate with you  because you ignore all logic. Your posts show an alarming lack of basic knowledge of math and more narrowly speaking statistics. Throughout your posts in this thread you are continiously repeating appalling pseudo calculations that got more in common with fortune telling rather than statistics. 

It's been proven by many posters before, through theory or simple mathematic formulas, that you are wrong. Yet you keep refusing to look at the hard mathematical facts and spread ignorant views.

[Suhiira]

I don't understand the problem.

Inquisition has 3 "Classes", mage, rogue, warrior.

ALL class skills are available to any character of that class.

Crafting skills are class independent and what you can craft is based on recipes and materials posessed NOT on character class or level.

 

The problem with this system is ... ?

[In Exile]

There can be no reasonable debate with you  because you ignore all logic. Your posts show an alarming lack of basic knowledge of math and more narrowly speaking statistics. Throughout your posts in this thread you are continiously repeating appalling pseudo calculations that got more in common with fortune telling rather than statistics. 

It's been proven by many posters before, through theory or simple mathematic formulas, that you are wrong. Yet you keep refusing to look at the hard mathematical facts and spread ignorant views.

 

It's rare when someone can literally say that a poster's point has been mathematically disproven. Don't take this away from the rest of us. 

[Dunbartacus]

There can be no reasonable debate with you  because you ignore all logic. Your posts show an alarming lack of basic knowledge of math and more narrowly speaking statistics. Throughout your posts in this thread you are continiously repeating appalling pseudo calculations that got more in common with fortune telling rather than statistics. 

It's been proven by many posters before, through theory or simple mathematic formulas, that you are wrong. Yet you keep refusing to look at the hard mathematical facts and spread ignorant views.

Then give me the numbers not just more baseless insults. give me reasons why i'm wrong, compare origins customization options to inquisitions.in your own little post so i can see your point of view and evidence. This is not how intelligent debate happens all your doing is acting superior and condescending.

[Kleon]

Then give me the numbers not just more baseless insults. give me reasons why i'm wrong, compare origins customization options to inquisitions.in your own little post so i can see your point of view and evidence. This is not how intelligent debate happens all your doing is acting superior and condescending.

 

Check previous pages and posts written by me and other people. 

[Dunbartacus]

Check previous pages and posts written by me and other people. 

k bye. good debating bud.

[Elhanan]

I don't understand the problem.
Inquisition has 3 "Classes", mage, rogue, warrior.
ALL class skills are available to any character of that class.
Crafting skills are class independent and what you can craft is based on recipes and materials posessed NOT on character class or level.
 
The problem with this system is ... ?

The removal and restriction of choice from the Player; from Attribute distribution, Quickslots, weapon proficiencies, etc. The previous systems allowed for more.

[Suhiira]

More

 

The removal and restriction of choice from the Player; from Attribute distribution, Quickslots, weapon proficiencies, etc. The previous systems allowed for more.

 

More?

They still use atributes (the same ones as previously from what I've seen), we have NO conformation that at some point you don't get attribute points fro level-ups, books, idols, shrines, or something that you can distribute where you like. There are pretty much the same number of quickslots as previously (give or take a couple).

Rather then having weapon proficencies restrict you to a single type (1 hand) or class (archery) of weapon they apply more-or-less to all weapons (can't imagine how some archery skills could apply to melee weapons tho), in the previous games it was never possible (without mods or console "cheats") to become fully skilled in more then one weapon type.

What "more" did the previous system allow?

[The Night Haunter]

More

 

 

More?

They still use atributes (the same ones as previously from what I've seen), we have NO conformation that at some point you don't get attribute points fro level-ups, books, idols, shrines, or something that you can distribute where you like. There are pretty much the same number of quickslots as previously (give or take a couple).

Rather then having weapon proficencies restrict you to a single type (1 hand) or class (archery) of weapon they apply more-or-less to all weapons (can't imagine how some archery skills could apply to melee weapons tho), in the previous games it was never possible (without mods or console "cheats") to become fully skilled in more then one weapon type.

What "more" did the previous system allow?

Actually devs confirmed you don't gain attribute points to spend on level-up.

DAO had NO LIMIT on the number of abilities you can have (on PC, I cannot attest to consoles). So an 8 limit is a huge difference.

DAO allowed you to switch weapons mid combat, since Archery actives were fairly useless putting 3-4 talents in archery passives and the rest in s&s, 2h, or dual weapons actually allowed effectiveness with two weapons.

 

This is more that was allowed in DAO than is allowed in DAI.

I will grant you that it isn't actually a big deal, most of these limits seem to be fairly tame, however to argue that they aren't more limited than DAO is just denying the truth. With a bit extra work you can overcome the attribute allocation deficiency, the 8 active limit will probably only effect mages (items are a separate set of abilities) and even then it can be overcome by being intelligent about how you spend your talents.

Switching weapons is a pure loss as in DAI it is impossible to even change weapons in combat, so putting points into multiple weapon trees is, more or less, a waste.

 

 

As I said, these are minor problems, DAI will be awesome, but they do exist.

[Elhanan]

More 
 
More?
They still use atributes (the same ones as previously from what I've seen), we have NO conformation that at some point you don't get attribute points fro level-ups, books, idols, shrines, or something that you can distribute where you like. There are pretty much the same number of quickslots as previously (give or take a couple).
Rather then having weapon proficencies restrict you to a single type (1 hand) or class (archery) of weapon they apply more-or-less to all weapons (can't imagine how some archery skills could apply to melee weapons tho), in the previous games it was never possible (without mods or console "cheats") to become fully skilled in more then one weapon type.
What "more" did the previous system allow?

We appear to have confirmation that starting Attributes are assigned per system, fewer Quickslots, weapons cannot be switched in combat, weapon restrictions, and possibly other mechanics that fade from my memory. Being able to design a build is not always about optimal and fully skilled in a specific weapon; sometimes it was simply about being able to utilize something beyond the norm (eg; 2H for Rogues or Mages). While this may not be for me, I can appreciate that others enjoyed using and designing such characters. Now; not gonna happen.

[Kleon]

I wouldn't call those changes minor. 

 

Player who wish to customize their characters more than through  buying abiltiies are forced to use crafting. Spend their time hunting for resources throughout the game, buying schematics, looking for schematics. All of that can be a collosal waste of time for those who hate MMO farming. It is an artifical way of making the game longer without adding meaningful content.

 

The 8 abilities restriction has the capacity to be extremely annoying to players who like to play tacticly and want to use their builds to their full potential. Of course it mainly strikes mages. You will very likely have 8 active abilties by level 8/9. While it is very likely that an average players will reach about level 20 for endgame, perhaps even higher. Can you imagine how infuriating it can be when you have mages in your party and you see a fire resistant enemy and you want to swap your fire spells for frost spells because you want to use them at their best potential while keeping the "mandatory"(read it with irony) spirit spells? Then you swap back? Then another resistant enemy shows up and you swap again, or you want to use traps or ice or fire walls. All the swapping will be infuriating. 

 

Those things affect gameplay all the time. Those restrictions make no sense unless BioWare wants to infuriate people and force them to make the cookie-cutter builds and spent half of their playtime farming for crafting. 

 

All of those things limit the player, "idiot-proof" the game and brings it in line with average hack&slash. Because, unless you haven't noticed, those things are typical for hack&slash like Diablo. 

[Dunbartacus]

Actually devs confirmed you don't gain attribute points to spend on level-up.

DAO had NO LIMIT on the number of abilities you can have (on PC, I cannot attest to consoles). So an 8 limit is a huge difference.

DAO allowed you to switch weapons mid combat, since Archery actives were fairly useless putting 3-4 talents in archery passives and the rest in s&s, 2h, or dual weapons actually allowed effectiveness with two weapons.

 

This is more that was allowed in DAO than is allowed in DAI.

I will grant you that it isn't actually a big deal, most of these limits seem to be fairly tame, however to argue that they aren't more limited than DAO is just denying the truth. With a bit extra work you can overcome the attribute allocation deficiency, the 8 active limit will probably only effect mages (items are a separate set of abilities) and even then it can be overcome by being intelligent about how you spend your talents.

Switching weapons is a pure loss as in DAI it is impossible to even change weapons in combat, so putting points into multiple weapon trees is, more or less, a waste.

 

 

As I said, these are minor problems, DAI will be awesome, but they do exist.

All these things are true. I will say one thing the game is based around 8 ability limit which is why we got all the swanky new passives so i don't foresee it being much of a problem for most players. the others could be issues for some players but personally i never utilized weapon switching so it doesn't bother me and as long as the equipment you craft / loot or equip provides the option for many and varied builds im supportive of the movement of attribute customization from lvl up to gear.

 

I do hope that those who have issues with these changes still enjoy the game.

[seraphymon]

I wouldn't call those changes minor. 

 

Player who wish to customize their characters more than buying abiltiies are forced to use crafting. Spend their time hunting for resources throughout the game, buying schematics, looking for schematics. All of that can be a collosal waste of time for those who hate MMO farming. It is an artifical way of making the game longer without adding meaningful content.

 

The 8 abilities restriction has the capacity to be extremely annoying to players who like to play tacticly and want to use their builds to their full potential. Of course it mainly strikes mages. You will very likely have 8 active abilties by level 8/9. While it is very likely that an average players will reach about level 20, perhaps even higher. Can you imagine how infuriating it can be when you have mages in your party and you see a fire resistant enemy and you want to swap your fire spells for frost spells because while keeping the "mandatory"(read it with irony) spirit spells? 

 

Those things affect gameplay all the time. Those restrictions make no sense unless BioWare wnats to infuriate people and force them to make the cookie-cutter builds and spent half of their playtime farming for crafting. 

 

All of those thins limit the player, "idiot-proof" the game and brings it in line with average hack&slash. Because unless you haven't noticed, those things are typical for hack&slash like Diablo. 

Yeah. I mean crafting can be cool first time around for most people. But second or third time is probably gonna amount to a worst experience then playing through the fade part of DAO. 

 

I hate streamlining and handholding more than anything.

 

All these things are true. I will say one thing the game is based around 8 ability limit which is why we got all the swanky new passives so i don't foresee it being much of a problem for most players. the others could be issues for some players but personally i never utilized weapon switching so it doesn't bother me and as long as the equipment you craft / loot or equip provides the option for many and varied builds im supportive of the movement of attribute customization from lvl up to gear.

 

I do hope that those who have issues with these changes still enjoy the game.

I support the way crafting is in this game, I just don't support it being the main replacement, especially for something advertised as optional. And if  there is any automatic stats being gained on a level up... well why cant I assign? why must my character conform?  It really makes me worried how much more streamlined this game will get with DA4

[Suhiira]

Actually devs confirmed you don't gain attribute points to spend on level-up.

DAO had NO LIMIT on the number of abilities you can have (on PC, I cannot attest to consoles). So an 8 limit is a huge difference.

DAO allowed you to switch weapons mid combat, since Archery actives were fairly useless putting 3-4 talents in archery passives and the rest in s&s, 2h, or dual weapons actually allowed effectiveness with two weapons.

 

This is more that was allowed in DAO than is allowed in DAI.

I will grant you that it isn't actually a big deal, most of these limits seem to be fairly tame, however to argue that they aren't more limited than DAO is just denying the truth. With a bit extra work you can overcome the attribute allocation deficiency, the 8 active limit will probably only effect mages (items are a separate set of abilities) and even then it can be overcome by being intelligent about how you spend your talents.

Switching weapons is a pure loss as in DAI it is impossible to even change weapons in combat, so putting points into multiple weapon trees is, more or less, a waste.

 

 

As I said, these are minor problems, DAI will be awesome, but they do exist.

OK, no attributes on level-up, I'm fine with that.  People don't smarter, more agile, or stronger as they become more experienced at whatever they do for a living anyway ... they gat more skilled.

We have 8 quickslots for spells or combos, PLUS automatic quickslots for potions/poisons/some tactical options ... so the total number is about the same.

True DA:O allowed weapon switching, DA:2 did not.  So not allowing it in DA:I is hardly a startling new restriction.

 

Keep in mind is the talent trees in DA:I are TOTALLY different then they were in DA:O so of course the way they the game allows a player to access/implement them would by necessity be different too.

[Suhiira]

Player who wish to customize their characters more than through  buying abiltiies are forced to use crafting. Spend their time hunting for resources throughout the game, buying schematics, looking for schematics. All of that can be a collosal waste of time for those who hate MMO farming. It is an artifical way of making the game longer without adding meaningful content.

 

Well if one doesn't consider improved weapons and armor meaningful content ...

[Kleon]

Well if one doesn't consider improved weapons and armor meaningful content ...

 

Running around for hours to find some beast for its fur is not a meaningful content. With randomized loot I wouldn't be surprised if they didnt drop what you need everytime. Besides, I should be able to decide about my character without crafting.