3034 réponses à ce sujet

[Dunbartacus]

The difference I see is that the base Attributes are something on the character, and item bonuses are something that may be on the character one day. The latter is reliant on discovering and searching; the former on creation of the PC itself. One may lose a staff or armor, but the base Attributes themselves are part of the character.

This is not a difference of opinions, as this is factual info.

I never said base attributes were fully controllable. i said those you get from gear are through the crafting system.

[Elhanan]

I never said base attributes were fully controllable. i said those you get from gear are through the crafting system.

I know the base Attributes are not controllable, though they should be; hence this thread. And one can choose which Attributes become improved in Crafting.

But one still must find the recipes, and then the material required to gain those bonuses for using items. And then said items could be stolen or confiscated; they are not in direct control by the Player. Neither are, it seems.

[Dunbartacus]

I know the base Attributes are not controllable, though they should be; hence this thread. And one can choose which Attributes become improved in Crafting.

But one still must find the recipes, and then the material required to gain those bonuses for using items. And then said items could be stolen or confiscated; they are not in direct control by the Player. Neither are, it seems.

I'm simply saying attributes that are put onto gear through crafting are fully controllable. If the gear gets confiscated that is the story taking away your gear for narrative reasons it doesn't detract from the fact crafting puts you in full control of what attributes were on that gear.

[Kleon]

I'm simply saying attributes that are put onto gear through crafting are fully controllable. If the gear gets confiscated that is the story taking away your gear for narrative reasons it doesn't detract from the fact crafting puts you in full control of what attributes were on that gear.

 

Gear can be taken off or changed. Stats that are AUTOMATICLY distributed WITHOUT PLAYERS CONTROL can't be. 

 

BioWare decided for you what your character's atributes will be like.

 

Crafting is supposed to be OPTIONAL. However taking CONTROL AWAY FROM THE PLAYER FORCES the player to use crafting. 

 

Crafting REQUIRES SCHEMATICS, MATERIALS AND RESEARCH WHICH ALL TAKE TIME ONE AFTER ANOTHER. 

 

Players who don't like MMO FARMING will be FORCED TO FARM IN A SINGLE PLAYER GAME. The same players didn't need to do that in previous games of THE SAME IP.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Kleon:  Ever consider that maybe this game won't be for you?

I love the changes.

[Elhanan]

I'm simply saying attributes that are put onto gear through crafting are fully controllable. If the gear gets confiscated that is the story taking away your gear for narrative reasons it doesn't detract from the fact crafting puts you in full control of what attributes were on that gear.

But one must still discover the plans and materials required for each Attribute. And because of greater restrictions, the Attributes not considered primary will likely be far less effective, esp from Classes that used to create the same builds using free choice of allocation.

[Deathsbane]

I'm simply saying attributes that are put onto gear through crafting are fully controllable. If the gear gets confiscated that is the story taking away your gear for narrative reasons it doesn't detract from the fact crafting puts you in full control of what attributes were on that gear.

When you have the required components, your opinion of direct and full control holds up but clearly what Salaya and Elhanan are saying isn't this, they are accounting for the variables in the acquiring of said components.

 

To elaborate, you as a player have complete control of searching for said components, finding and acquiring said components is not directly in your control (this is fact, as you may not where exactly these components are or are unable to acquire at the moment it is found). Your point only applies after the components have been found which is what they are pointing out to you.

 

Having said that, it makes no sense logically for an item (except it is imbibed with magic) to suddenly raise your stats, training with an item over time however can achieve this result and that is my problem with this system.

 

It's like this, your training occurs between levels and it culminates when you move to the next one hence the stat upgrade and you decide what stats went up because you control how you train, that was the old system but in this new one you train and it culminates in a new level but you have no input, which means some other force was deciding what skills you were developing not you also when you find a new weapon, pick it up, the weapon suddenly makes you better, that makes no sense (logically of course, and without the advent of magical interference).

 

To sum it up, my point is this, the new system makes no sense logically and lorewise, because except every damn weapon is imbibed with magic there is no rationale for them to raise your stats as soon as you equip them. And that is fact.

[Elhanan]

@Kleon:  Ever consider that maybe this game won't be for you?

I love the changes.

Good for you! You lost nothing, and do not apparently care much for those of differing thought. Enjoy!

As for me, I would hope that offering both groups the choices that were seen in the prior games would have kept the interest of almost all. Silly me....

[Medhia_Nox]

@Deathsbane:  Makes no sense to whom?  

I've played plenty of tabletop RPGs where gear raises my stats.  It makes perfect sense to me.  

 

But I'll even explain it non-magically (it won't work because you've already decided you don't like it):  

 

If a sword is weighted properly, it might be able to allow you to put your dexterity into it in a greater way.

If a sword is curved a specific way, made out of a specific material, or forged in a particular way - it might take greater advantage of your strength. 

If an article of clothing provides better cover - it might add to Cunning (Cunning has nothing to do with talking anymore)

If a shield provides you with the ability to absorb blows better - it might add to constitution.

Feel free to now focus on the harder stretches... 

 

But this argument that items raising stats is somehow "wrong" is, in itself, wrong.

 

@Elhanan:  I do care, however, when people make erroneous claims about choice when what they really mean is "the choices I want aren't present".  This game does not have less choice - and you've admitted that.  It just has less choice in an area you want.  

 

This idiocy about items not being a part of a character is just rhetoric for justification of a viewpoint (which doesn't need justification - as it is just an opinion).

 

Items have been essential to characters in table top and CRPGs for decades now.  

[Dunbartacus]

 

Good for you! You lost nothing, and do not apparently care much for those of differing thought. Enjoy!

As for me, I would hope that offering both groups the choices that were seen in the prior games would have kept the interest of almost all. Silly me....

This serves to stifle game innovation. I'd rather a series evolves and tries new things than just release the same game with a different story and some slight changes just look at assasins creed or cod personally i don't want that from bioware.

[Kleon]

@Kleon:  Ever consider that maybe this game won't be for you?

I love the changes.

 

I've been following Dragon Age since 2009, so its natural that I will play Inquisition.Depending on how the Inquisition will ****** me off, I will not buy another BioWare product,ever. If I wanted to play an MMO or hack and slash I would simply buy a game by another developer who will do a better job at that than BioWare. However I hate MMOs and dislike hack&slash and Dragon Age was supposed to be, and was to some extent, a single player game that next to the story offered a single player gameplay. 

[Deathsbane]

@Deathsbane:  Makes no sense to whom?  

I've played plenty of tabletop RPGs where gear raises my stats.  It makes perfect sense to me.  

 

But I'll even explain it non-magically (it won't work because you've already decided you don't like it):  

 

If a sword is weighted properly, it might be able to allow you to put your dexterity into it in a greater way.

If a sword is curved a specific way, made out of a specific material, or forged in a particular way - it might take greater advantage of your strength. 

If an article of clothing provides better cover - it might add to Cunning (Cunning has nothing to do with talking anymore)

If a shield provides you with the ability to absorb blows better - it might add to constitution.

Feel free to now focus on the harder stretches... 

 

But this argument that items raising stats is somehow "wrong" is, in itself, wrong.

Your point is moot Nox, in fact you are proving my point for me. Different weapon styles and forms can allow you to better utilize your current stats but in no way can they increase them, not without magic.

 

All your examples prove this, the shape weight allow you to use the stats you already have to greater effect. PS that shield example is a bad one because it in no way add to constitution it can just ward off hits it doesn't suddenly give you more hit points it allows you to take more hits by acting as a barrier between you and the blow.

 

Your argument only holds when not examined logically or in other words if one suspends disbelief, which in my opinion is perfectly fine but don't argue that it makes sense logically, as it will never be so. But this is a game after all so i'm fine with it.

[Dunbartacus]

I've been following Dragon Age since 2009, so its natural that I will play Inquisition.Depending on how the Inquisition will ****** me off, I will not buy another BioWare product,ever. If I wanted to play an MMO or hack and slash I would simply buy a game by another developer who will do a better job at that than BioWare. However I hate MMOs and dislike hack&slash and Dragon Age was supposed to be, and was to some extent, a single player game that next to the story offered a single player gameplay. 

I don't get this hack and slash, mmo vibe from inquisition at all and i doubt medhia does either its simply an opinion you have formed based on what you have seen some people may share it but i certainly do not.

[Kleon]

This serves to stifle game innovation and. I'd rather a series evolves and tries new things than just release the same game with a different story and some slight changes just look at assasins creed or cod personally i don't want that from bioware.

 

Because realeasing different game with the same story is so much better? 

 

BioWare is still going on Baldur's Gate reputation. Sadly almost every single game developed by them since Baldur's Gate is practicly the same mesh of black&white choices as well as gathering allies for final battle againts armies of darkness. 

 

Personaly I grow sick and tired of it and I suspect that for me, as well as for many other people, Inquisition is the last chance of BioWare's. If Inquisition will not live up to expectations BioWare will most likely lose many of their core customers who would normally buy their products without hesitation. 

 

Why did I buy a BioWare game at all? Because there aren't many RPGs on the market in the first place.

[Elhanan]

@Deathsbane:  Makes no sense to whom?  

I've played plenty of tabletop RPGs where gear raises my stats.  It makes perfect sense to me.  
 
But I'll even explain it non-magically (it won't work because you've already decided you don't like it):  
 
If a sword is weighted properly, it might be able to allow you to put your dexterity into it in a greater way.
If a sword is curved a specific way, made out of a specific material, or forged in a particular way - it might take greater advantage of your strength. 
If an article of clothing provides better cover - it might add to Cunning (Cunning has nothing to do with talking anymore)
If a shield provides you with the ability to absorb blows better - it might add to constitution.
Feel free to now focus on the harder stretches... 
 
But this argument that items raising stats is somehow "wrong" is, in itself, wrong.

Except that DAI is apparently making a game where one can make a longbow that grants the ability of great STR, though STR is no longer useful for longbows, archers, or Ulysses if he is considered a Warrior. And the 13th Warrior could make a sword that intensified STR, but cannot wield it. Etc.

All these removals and restrictions come together in gameplay, which is seemingly far more restrictive.

[Kleon]

I don't get this hack and slash, mmo vibe from inquisition at all and i doubt medhia does either its simply an opinion you have formed based on what you have seen some people may share it but i certainly do not.

Play Diablo 3 and compare it to design decisions discussed in this thread. You can also try whatever MMO and you'll get the same **** that BioWare wants to sell. 

 

While you're at it you can try and check out first two Gothic games, Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale. Skyrim got a lot more player control too, its almost laughable when you compare those games. Even after changing the atributes from previous titles Skyrim still offfers massive customization in comparison to any Dragon Age.

[Dunbartacus]

Because realeasing different game with the same story is so much better? 

 

BioWare is still going on Baldur's Gate reputation. Sadly almost every single game developed by them since Baldur's Gate is practicly the same mesh of black&white choices as well as gathering allies for final battle againts armies of darkness. 

 

Personaly I grow sick and tired of it and I suspect that for me, as well as for many other people, Inquisition is the last chance of BioWare's. If Inquisition will not live up to expectations BioWare will most likely lose many of their core customers and would normally buy their products without hesitation. 

 

Why did I buy a BioWare game in a first place? Because there aren't many RPGs on the market in the first place. 

Bioware is going on mass effect and dragon age reputation for me. I guess it all depends on how well inquisition is received by old fans and new. if it is an objectively great game then even if it alienates some old fans it should still sell well.

[Elhanan]

@Elhanan:  I do care, however, when people make erroneous claims about choice when what they really mean is "the choices I want aren't present".  This game does not have less choice - and you've admitted that.  It just has less choice in an area you want.  
 
This idiocy about items not being a part of a character is just rhetoric for justification of a viewpoint (which doesn't need justification - as it is just an opinion).
 
Items have been essential to characters in table top and CRPGs for decades now.

No; I prefer Player choice in Attributes, Hotkeys (the sliding Quickbar in DAO was great; the customizable UI seen in SWTOR was terrific), Crafting (still hoping that NPC's can do it, as I dislike having to do so myself, and loathe Alchemy); most areas overall.

And this has been repeated a few times, so some seem to be blind to it, or are ignoring it for whatever reason.

[Dunbartacus]

No; I prefer Player choice in Attributes, Hotkeys (the sliding Quickbar in DAO was great; the customizable UI seen in SWTOR was terrific), Crafting (still hoping that NPC's can do it, as I dislike having to do so myself, and loathe Alchemy); most areas overall.

And this has been repeated a few times, so some seem to be blind to it, or are ignoring it for whatever reason.

This is just an opinion so it doesn't need justification. I like the direction inquisition took you would prefer it was more like origins. both are valid.

[azarhal]

What? This is official? Confirmation anywhere?

 

If that's true... well, pretty dissapointing. Another step to Diablo Age Skyrim Connection

 

All active abilities effectiveness seems to be based on weapon damage going by their tooltips.

 

This is a change from DA2 where their effectiveness was based on a single attribute per class (Str= War, Dex= Rogue, Magic = Mage). DAO was a mix of weapon (warrior/rogue) and attributes (mage).

 

This change seem to indicate that classes in DAI are less focused on a single stat though.

[VilhoDog13]

Eh, Dunbarticus, don't worry about trying to get them to accept your point of view, and as for the others, don't worry about trying to get use to accept your point of view.

If any of you are getting pissed or frustrated - just take a breather, and back away. Check a different thread and in another day or two come back. If you're wanting a good debate (although I'm not seeing much debate - just a lot of bolded, arguing text), then continue. Otherwise, remember that there are other people on the other side of the screen, and to be respectful.

[Elhanan]

This serves to stifle game innovation. I'd rather a series evolves and tries new things than just release the same game with a different story and some slight changes just look at assasins creed or cod personally i don't want that from bioware.

I am for change that appears to improve the game; ones that increase Player choice.

Prefer DA2 tiers for Talents & Spells for variety and choice, though I prefer the artwork of DAO for them. Prefer the Full VO, though I like to have more accurate lines for examination. Prefer a more open world, with mechanics useful for exploration. Prefer Crafting that allows for greater Player customization.

In the same way, I dislike decisions that limit Player choice: fewer Hotkeys, Attribute choices, weapon restrictions, etc. It still baffles me why one way supposedly increases choice, and then remove it from other areas.

[Elhanan]

This is just an opinion so it doesn't need justification. I like the direction inquisition took you would prefer it was more like origins. both are valid.

Both would have been great; instead we got it there way.

Much like burgers with mayo and pickles, and pizza with olives and anchovies; dislike them personally. Give the Player the wide choice of topping, and allow us to choose what we want; seems reasonable to me.

[Dunbartacus]

I am for change that appears to improve the game; ones that increase Player choice.

Prefer DA2 tiers for Talents & Spells for variety and choice, though I prefer the artwork of DAO for them. Prefer the Full VO, though I like to have more accurate lines for examination. Prefer a more open world, with mechanics useful for exploration. Prefer Crafting that allows for greater Player customization.

In the same way, I dislike decisions that limit Player choice: fewer Hotkeys, Attribute choices, weapon restrictions, etc. It still baffles me why one way supposedly increases choice, and then remove it from other areas.

Cool to tell you the truth the game you describe sounds good i'm just not that fussed about weapon types would like more but i'm happy with whats in, I kinda like the idea of attribute customization moved to crafting and i also don't mind the ability restrictions im not psyched about it i just think it will work fine. Crafting, open world, no wave combat, tactical cam for a first time on xbox what looks like a massive story with more than cameos from past characters these things far outweigh the mild indifference i feel towards some of the other decisions.

[Dunbartacus]

Both would have been great; instead we got it there way.

Much like burgers with mayo and pickles, and pizza with olives and anchovies; dislike them personally. Give the Player the wide choice of topping, and allow us to choose what we want; seems reasonable to me.

Kinda agree with this my ideal attribute solution would be roughly half manually put in on lvl up and half controllable through crafting. I also would of liked dual wielding warriors to be in and fist weapons or something for rogues.