3034 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

I want to see how it works. It will probably be fine.

Though BioWare could have avoided all this drama by just releasing the documentation.

[Star fury]

Both would have been great; instead we got it there way.

Much like burgers with mayo and pickles, and pizza with olives and anchovies; dislike them personally. Give the Player the wide choice of topping, and allow us to choose what we want; seems reasonable to me.

Bioware Ford: You can have any colour as long as it's black.

[efd731]

I wouldn't be so quick to flag someone as a troll. He just believes this mechanics suits his playstyle better, and is standing by it.

From the pure math standpoint being available to use all of your 15 available skills produces more combinations for sure, no one can deny it.
But it is to each individual and his personal preferences if he likes that this way or prefer to be in some way restricted from using all of them.

For him this restrictions produces more tactical feel to the game, for me it doesn't. Bot are opinions. Both are right.

that is 100% correct. However if you ignore the 'feel' of the game, 8 tactics ageless than what was previously available. We literally have less tactics available to us.

[Kleon]

Hmm... May of 2014 must be some very special date, because a lot of posters who show appalling blindness to logic and math joined the forums at that time. 

[Abraham_uk]

Hmm... May of 2014 must be some very special date, because a lot of posters who show appalling blindness to logic and math joined the forums at that time. 

 

Okay. Mind if I ask you to elaborate?

I literally have no clue how you came to this conclusion.

[Timate]

It appears that there is more people who like to nuke something just because they got butt hurt of feel like nuking something lol. Not everyone agrees with one another if we all did that would be boring however most can't face the simple facts all because they don't like something they cant open there minds to change when change can be great if done right sometimes you have to get rid of something to get something better. Otherwise we would be stuck with pack man or something on those lines and I would have never gotten into videos games if that had been the case. RPG's are one of the few games that constantly evolve well more so then others sports games and fps take the longest to evolve if you don't count graphics that is. When the game comes out one of two things will happen a lot of people will love it and some will hate it or many will hate it and some will love it it's just that simple. I will love this because the world will be more immersive and will be able to do more as far as structure in a party base game then prior installments. Personally I don't care if I don't get to choose what I put points into leveling up it reminds me of bg2 in that way and I loved that game tactics skills talent and equipment made you strong in that game not attributes unless you got a decent dice roll at the start of making your dude. I may have not seen all the skills but I already know the type of party I will build and it always works I played older games similar to this idea that made you use your brain rather then making the game easy for you.

[xkg]

Hey guys, I found this  key lying around. Whose is this ? 

[Kleon]

It appears that there is more people who like to nuke something just because they got butt hurt of feel like nuking something lol. Not everyone agrees with one another if we all did that would be boring however most can't face the simple facts all because they don't like something they cant open there minds to change when change can be great if done right sometimes you have to get rid of something to get something better. Otherwise we would be stuck with pack man or something on those lines and I would have never gotten into videos games if that had been the case. RPG's are one of the few games that constantly evolve well more so then others sports games and fps take the longest to evolve if you don't count graphics that is. When the game comes out one of two things will happen a lot of people will love it and some will hate it or many will hate it and some will love it it's just that simple. I will love this because the world will be more immersive and will be able to do more as far as structure in a party base game then prior installments. Personally I don't care if I don't get to choose what I put points into leveling up it reminds me of bg2 in that way and I loved that game tactics skills talent and equipment made you strong in that game not attributes unless you got a decent dice roll at the start of making your dude. I may have not seen all the skills but I already know the type of party I will build and it always works I played older games similar to this idea that made you use your brain rather then making the game easy for you.

 

Do you ever use paragraphs or punctuation? 

 

Commas are dieing because we are not really reading out loud as much, but paragraphs are necessary.

 

I will not adress your opinion in that post because I've contered your "opinions" way too many times to repeat myself.

[Morroian]

This is just an opinion so it doesn't need justification. I like the direction inquisition took you would prefer it was more like origins. both are valid.

 

Both are certainly valid the thing is its changing the franchise into something it wasn't at the start.

[Timate]

How can you counter when you have nothing to counter with lol you are just spitting things that you think to be whatever you think it to be and I don't have to type in any kind of apa format. Until you give me a proper counter everything you said has been a horrible counter lol.

[Kleon]

How can you counter when you have nothing to counter with lol you are just spitting things that you think to be whatever you think it to be and I don't have to type in any kind of apa format. Until you give me a proper counter everything you said has been a horrible counter lol.

 

Well, you seem to be yet another example of BioWare's current target audience. I guess that it explains a lot. 

[Timate]

It explains nothing lol I fail to see how I am there target. I have played way more games then I count been in many beta's. I give every game for the most part the benefit of the doubt and know what game developers means when they say or imply certain things because I have dabbled in some of it before. If you mean by me not caring about making my sentences look nice for you or whoever that has nothing to do with them or anyone.

 

You must realize what you just typed sounded rather ignorant you cannot imply something without knowing someone's real intentions. By saying I am there target means they would have to personally target people with similar interests of that of mine if that was the case then this game would be completely different. I just happen to like this type of game but it is by far my favorite type of game.

 

P.S I personally don't care what you think but you should get off your high horse lol

[wolfhowwl]

Okay. Mind if I ask you to elaborate?

I literally have no clue how you came to this conclusion.

 

He's been playing the "paid shill" card a bit in arguments here.

[berrieh]

Because realeasing different game with the same story is so much better? 

 

BioWare is still going on Baldur's Gate reputation. Sadly almost every single game developed by them since Baldur's Gate is practicly the same mesh of black&white choices as well as gathering allies for final battle againts armies of darkness. 

 

Oh, the Bioware story formula has been in place long before that, including IN BG.

 

I actually have thoroughly enjoyed every game since BG - to varying degrees - more than BG. But then I don't think the old CRPG ever really worked for me - it felt like a hollow experience of trying to play a pen and paper RPG alone. To me, the cinematic Bioware RPG of today is more satisfying and more its own. What the market wants from a Bioware game now is likely very different than what most hardcore fans of Baldur's Gate wanted. I know DA is a spiritual successor (at least Origins was) and in a way it is, I guess, but I don't think a major AAA publisher is ever going to go in a traditional CRPG BG-esque direction anytime soon. 

 

At any rate, I don't think Bioware is relying on the BG reputation at all. I know many modern Bioware fans who have never played BG and many like me who did play the old games but like the new games better. I do think there is a small contingent of oldschool Bioware fans who are unhappy with the direction and whom Bioware likely wants to please but may be unable to while moving in the direction they want/need to go. 

 

 

snip

 

 

This is biased, so I preface with it: seems that this balance may have been done for DA-MP, and not for solo play.

 

 

Perhaps. Balance in MP play is considered mandatory whereas in SP it's considered somewhere between important and crucial (in terms of game design) but often overlooked by players in specific cases. DA:O and DA2 both have fairly poor balance, fwiw, though DA2 has better balance than Origins - whether it's what you prefer or not, there is greater balance.

 

As to DA:I - The removal of healing is a major balancing act; it seems clear the whole new combat system is built around the idea of balance in DA:I. I could be wrong, but that's the feeling I continue to get. *Some* players don't care about balance in SP, but designers usually still do, so this does not surprise me. Personally, I like balance, but I'm okay with unbalanced games that are fun. Sod balance if there's a good story, I say. As far as MP goes, I will probably try it, but it's not ever my cuppa. I do understand the frustration at seemingly shoehorned MP though. 

 

I and others here enjoyed manually allocating points to Attributes, while others could choose to let the game select them. Now the former group is forced to use the latter mechanic. And some of the latter group does not empathize as to why this is something to complain about for DAI. Yet I doubt the forums would have remained empty if the latter system had been the one removed for the former.

 

 

I never used auto-level up for the record. If there is a chance to manually assign points, I always take it. I am too OCD not to assign them manually.

 

And I quite like immersion, and playing the role. One STR Rogue of mine was named Bronto; an armored, 1H weapon toting thug from Dust Town with a penchant for swapping purses from those that lacked respect. IN DAI, all Rogues will have the same base stats, so while they look the same, there is no longer any room for Bronto. While some may have limited vision on RP, there are generally others with a different perspective.

 

 

The allowance of a wider arrange of roles, however, necessarily means a) poorer balance and less world reactivity - given the same resources and limitations otherwise. With a more finite amount of roles, the world can be programmed with more reactivity to those roles, thus further immersion. And balance is obvious. The classes can be more easily balanced with predictable combinations. There are still choices - perhaps a few less, yes, but the amount of players impacted by the removal of those choices is likely minimal compared to the benefits gained in greater balance and immersion. 

 

Whether there is less choice in DA:I, I cannot fully say. To me, it looks like there is more choice, overall, though some old choices were removed. The choices were streamlined towards what matters for balance and reactivity, and towards giving more players more freedom in the things that sell games and interest a greater amount of people. I imagine more people are interested in even cosmetic gear customization (let alone all the fun with customizing stats) than are in attribute points.

 

I am not saying you have no right to be disappointed. You do. You have a right to want whatever you want from the game. I just think it's worth examining the potential benefits and not simply assuming it's shoehorned multiplayer or the dumbing down of games or something (I'm not saying you assume the latter, but some obviously do). 
 

Outside of balance - Limits are good precisely because video games can't be as reactive to every possible state as we need them to be. They are not pen and paper RPGs (which I love - I play and DM them). As such, limits can create more immersive builds and reactive worlds. Yes, this limits you from RPing certain builds but it strengthens the RP in the builds that are available. At any rate, most players don't RP in the sense of "playing as a character" (I do, so I get the appeal) from what I've gathered anyway; they RP to a more limited degree than that and their RP would be less impacted by not being able to build anything they want than by building what they want but having the world barely react to that build. 
 

Freedom of choice was added and is promoted for a more Open World, more Talents, higher CC options, and many other areas, but the character designs now lack those freedoms. Of course, such characters may be easier to balance for DA-MP, but I play solo games as a rule.

 

 

 

I play solo games as a rule, too, fwiw. I just think that balance is still an objectively important element of game design. LESS mandatory than MP, but not unimportant. 

[animedreamer]

That's very very simple. Count the steps :

 

1) Gather exp to ... 2) Raise your attributes

1) Gather resources to ... 2) Craft your gear to ... 3) Raise your attributes

Except step 2 is hardly a step, since all it is it pushing a button or two, not playing some mini game and waiting for the armor to be done. It's done instantaneously. Not to mention you don't have to craft a new piece of gear as you could just modify a existing piece of gear given it has the available slot for modification.

[Muspade]

I want to see how it works. It will probably be fine.

Though BioWare could have avoided all this drama by just releasing the documentation.

Wouldn't matter. People want everything to be on their character. Cut off their own arm and attach a blade to it, even.

[Timate]

That would be interesting to cut of your arm and make a gunblade out of it lol

[Sylvius the Mad]

Wouldn't matter. People want everything to be on their character. Cut off their own arm and attach a blade to it, even.

It should depend what the other effects of the stats are.

 

If the abstraction works, what's the problem?

[Muspade]

It should depend what the other effects of the stats are.

If the abstraction works, what's the problem?

Beats me. Ask Rawgrim.

[xkg]

Except step 2 is hardly a step, since all it is it pushing a button or two, not playing some mini game and waiting for the armor to be done. It's done instantaneously. Not to mention you don't have to craft a new piece of gear as you could just modify a existing piece of gear given it has the available slot for modification.

 

Does the second step involve going back to camp to craft, or can you do that on the run, in the middle of some dungeon ?

[Elhanan]

.... 
Outside of balance - Limits are good precisely because video games can't be as reactive to every possible state as we need them to be. They are not pen and paper RPGs (which I love - I play and DM them). As such, limits can create more immersive builds and reactive worlds. Yes, this limits you from RPing certain builds but it strengthens the RP in the builds that are available. At any rate, most players don't RP in the sense of "playing as a character" (I do, so I get the appeal) from what I've gathered anyway; they RP to a more limited degree than that and their RP would be less impacted by not being able to build anything they want than by building what they want but having the world barely react to that build....

But the thing is, the game does not RP at all; it simply is a mechanic that can aid the Player to RP. As an example, I RP while playing XCOM; a tactical/ strategic game. And Skill based RPG's are as immersive as Class based ones. While some games may be better at allowing the RP to remain immersive, it is a subjective experience dependent on the indv Player, and their imagination.

That said, if a PnP GM were to begin a storied campaign, then remove Player options during each break in the story, he should seemingly expect some to question the decision at least. And instead of the Player getting to create their own characters, or even one of the major characters in the tale, but instead are handed a Class template, then that expectation of debate will likely grow, IMO.

Personally, I do not accept either balance or RP as a possible reason for losing more control over gameplay.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Elhana:  Not the same - these are like three separate campaigns set in the Forgotten Realms... not one campaign.

 

If you played a 4th Edition campaign in the Realms - and a 5th Edition campaign - they'd be totally different.

[Elhanan]

@Elhana:  Not the same - these are like three separate campaigns set in the Forgotten Realms... not one campaign.
 
If you played a 4th Edition campaign in the Realms - and a 5th Edition campaign - they'd be totally different.

Quit before purchasing 4E anything; too much MMO gameplay, and removal and alterations from the rules and settings for my taste. And evidently, TES games have done many the same things, and others have reported that the Bethesda forums also 'adored' those changes. *coughs*

Now, I quite enjoy Skyrim, but also can see how Players used to having prior Attributes included into three major areas might question this change. But going another step further, the likely reaction to having those areas chosen for you based on Class selection might illicit another lively debate.

This is ours....

[Lanavis]

I honestly feel this was Bioware's dumbest gameplay change in Dragon Age. It takes away choice and customization for the player as well as forces the player to either sacrifice skills they want for attributes they need or sacrifice attributes they need for skills they want. Either way it's unnecessary and aggravating for no sensible reason: e.g. it's not adding difficulty in any meaningful way (like the lack of health regen does).

We can only hope Bioware goes back to allowing the player to choose their attributes in Dragon Age 4.

Bioware: 3 steps forward, but one step back.

[animedreamer]

Does the second step involve going back to camp to craft, or can you do that on the run, in the middle of some dungeon ?

yes you can do it on the run in the dungeon, in the bed with cassandra on top if that's your thing.