3034 réponses à ce sujet

[Morroian]

Really? It seems much more open to me - building an organization the way you want, coming from one of several different backgrounds, having more choice of companions, having specializations that actually matter to role-playing, these are all way more important factors for role-playing than the tweaks to combat. As to the actual character building, selecting talents/passives/perks and building a play style seems less "What's more optimal?" now with the choices seeming - at least at this point - very balanced and thus opens a wider array of tactics and ways to approach things. Additionally, the gameplay they've shown so far shows several ways to approach each combat tactically. 

 

Having more background options is fine but the role playing options in building your toon once the game has started are more limited. Building the organisation is not role playing but strategic. As for building and whats optimal, I never felt compelled by DAO or DA2 into optimal builds and I played nightmare on both, I built several toons in a variety of ways. And giving people access to more abilities doing combat clearly adds more tactical options than having less. As for the specs its a but hard to take them seriously in rp terms when they shoehorn basic abilities from the previous games into specs that they clearly don't belong in. Not to mention that specs are meant to matter more in DAI than in DA2 but they have less active abilities than the DA2 specs.

[berrieh]

Having more background options is fine but the role playing options in building your toon once the game has started are more limited.

 

 

I guess I don't really see that per se. I mean, you COULD make a Rogue with a bunch of points in Magic before, but why? The game never reacts to it, so you can't really roleplay it. It's just kind of there. Anything you're RPing with that (my Rogue studies magic to increase his magical defense or because his sister is a mage or whatever) could be done as realistically without stats at ALL and the game doesn't react to those builds at ALL. So you can still do that, with or without stats, to be honest, to the same level of effect. 

 

Building the organisation is not role playing but strategic.

 

 

Not necessarily - it seems like you will make a lot of decisions in terms of HOW the organization is shaped and formed, both strategic, moral, and personal. 

 

As for building and whats optimal, I never felt compelled by DAO or DA2 into optimal builds and I played nightmare on both, I built several toons in a variety of ways.

 

 

I didn't feel compelled due to difficulty - just common sense. I would rather have a smaller array of equally good options (thus all are valid choices) than a larger array with clear choices - otherwise, it is painful choosing less optimal choices. It feels unbalanced. 

 

And giving people access to more abilities doing combat clearly adds more tactical options than having less.

 

 

I may be biased because this doesn't impact me (and I'm guessing a wide range of choices). While I have a gaming PC, I played these games on console due to DA:O having no controller options on PC (or at least I was told it didn't so bought it for console) and I don't play games with KB and M unless I absolutely have to and it's a click-and-point adventure or strategy game really. And then, even though it had controller support, wanting to carry my games over for DA2. While you could use all your abilities, there were only 6 quick slots. I rarely used more than that. 8 seems plenty to me. You can change load-outs at various points, I believe, so it's not 8 forever, is it? 

 

As for the specs its a but hard to take them seriously in rp terms when they shoehorn basic abilities from the previous games into specs that they clearly don't belong in. Not to mention that specs are meant to matter more in DAI than in DA2 but they have less active abilities than the DA2 specs.

 

 

See, I feel like the specs seem to suit the lore better in DA:I than any other version of the game. I've read all the books and such, and the specs feel very nicely done this time. I'm especially happy about the removal of Blood Magic (which never made sense). 

 

As to mattering more, the abilities seem very strong in some cases - so combat-wise, that will matter - and the passives seem to matter as well. Plus, they will actually be part of the story and character's personality! By "matter" I think that is part of what they mean. 

 

...I guess I just don't get what attributes add to RPing in a game like this. I get it in D&D/Pathfinder, where the stats have clear correlations to certain gameplay mechanics beyond combat - like the difference of intelligence and wisdom or the lure of charisma - that can appear in excellent RP moments because of the nature of the P&P RPG genre. But for a video game, attributes are not nearly as interesting a method of customization as skills, talents, and passives. Not even as interesting as gear. It's literally the least interesting type of character customization there is and it was removed, yes, but other means of customizing were added. More gear customization than ever before, for example, certainly trumps splitting points between DEX and CUN. 

 

Yes, I suppose dumping points into an unnecessary stat before made for more "roleplaying options" but the idea that those options are gone is silly. They never really existed anywhere but in your head, and you can still create them all you want, because of that, without attributes at all. 

[Elhanan]

You lost me on the playing solo line there, or maybe I lost you. My point was 1) co-op multiplayer is balanced different than traditional MP, and 2) that the co-op multiplayer in DA:I should resemble the single player combat because even though you control only one character at a time in action mode and only embody one character for role-playing, in terms of combat, you are actually playing 4 player co-op in single player as you have a party combat system. So the balance from co-op helps the balance from SP because it is remarkably similar anyway. Maybe I said that poorly, or maybe I don't understand your point.
 
I don't know what a lesser Class is. If you mean the classes that were less OP, I think all the classes were re-built from the ground up with a new combat system from the ground up, focused on balancing encounters through persistent damage that doesn't auto-heal, the removal of must-have healing skills, and creating specializations and classes that are equally appealing and have equal utility. I think all the classes are (to some degree) re-imagined, and - for me - they are all re-imagined in exciting ways. The combat looks really deep and interesting to me. I'm sorry if it looks like a bummer to you - I understand different people have different opinions, and I'm not trying to invalidate yours at all.

It was mentioned that certain Mage designs may have been overpowered, likely directed at AW builds based on some reports. My point is that balance does not explain greater restrictions imposed on Rogues and Warriors. While all have been re-designed, weapon restrictions and other mechanics still nerf these classes, as Mages are not greatly affected by this (ie; staff is still primary weapon).

While I applaud attempts to move away from MMO trinity mechanics, DAI is still deep in them (eg; Taunt, throwing chains, etc). And now like MMO's, the base Class designs will be the same. And like m/p, one seems to require a party based on abilities and Talents; not dialogue, RP, or other solo game based considerations.

I still contend that DAI would be improved if the Player were able to choose options no longer possible; for good or ill.

[xkg]

Ok guys, now that many of you started playing the game please tell me.

Are attributes rising by themselves on level up at all ?

 

Let's say 5th lvl character with no stats enchancing armor/weapon, and no perks. How many points in atributes he gained during those five level ups ?

[marloko]

Ok guys, now that many of you started playing the game please tell me.

Are attributes rising by themselves on level up at all ?

 

Let's say 5th lvl character with no stats enchancing armor/weapon, and no perks. How many points in atributes he gained during those five level ups ?

 

 

not sure if it's just me, but my attributes are not rising at all, EXCEPT when i unlock a passive skill, wich automatically grants me some att points

[xkg]

not sure if it's just me, but my attributes are not rising at all, EXCEPT when i unlock a passive skill, wich automatically grants me some att points

 

Bah   That's what I was afraid , ⒻⒻⓈ

Thanks for the answer.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

not sure if it's just me, but my attributes are not rising at all, EXCEPT when i unlock a passive skill, wich automatically grants me some att points

 

What the f*** ?!

 

So if we do not touch the passives, our attributes are stuck at its base level.

 

Bioware, this is just dumb. 

 

Dragon Age Inquisition = a Single Player MMO where you cannot level up your attributes, where you are limited in terms of number of skills and where gear hunting / gear crafting is essential. 

 

Don't you just love it when people decided for us what we should like and then justify it with claims of 'choices' ? 

[MCG]

If the attribute points are allocated cleverly I'm not bothered, seems like an unnecessary removal though. I don't want to level up and yet not see my damage output change at all sometimes or see my magic stronger when I literally have no use for it.

[Elhanan]

If the attribute points are allocated cleverly I'm not bothered, seems like an unnecessary removal though. I don't want to level up and yet not see my damage output change at all sometimes or see my magic stronger when I literally have no use for it.

Is there any info obtained on the actual Character page (eg; hovering cursor over Attribute)?

[Dunbartacus]

Is there any info obtained on the actual Character page (eg; hovering cursor over Attribute)?

Yup. Magic, strength and dexterity increase attack for their respective classes which increases damage. Willpower increases attack for all classes. there are other characteristics but i can't remember most of them.

[Elhanan]

Yup. Magic, strength and dexterity increase attack for their respective classes which increases damage. Willpower increases attack for all classes. there are other characteristics but i can't remember most of them.

Thanks! Is there any Damage, Attack, Defense, Armor, and Resistance info as in prior games? This should help in nothing increases.

[Back Lot Basher]

While this does seem like a "dumbing down" of the system, I honestly don't mind.  Generally speaking, DA:O basically pushed me into jacking up two specific skills for each class anyway, so if they're being raised by passives in a way that suits the skills I take, I don't care.  Welcome to gaming in the modern era.  These productions are costly, and a huge player base is required.  And let's face it, a lot of casual players get lost in RPGs.  My only gauge for the quality of a game is in the fun-factor and level of entertainment.  And right now, Inquisition is off the charts.  I'm absolutely immersed right now, and can't get enough of it.

[Elhanan]

While this does seem like a "dumbing down" of the system, I honestly don't mind.  Generally speaking, DA:O basically pushed me into jacking up two specific skills for each class anyway, so if they're being raised by passives in a way that suits the skills I take, I don't care.  Welcome to gaming in the modern era.  These productions are costly, and a huge player base is required.  And let's face it, a lot of casual players get lost in RPGs.  My only gauge for the quality of a game is in the fun-factor and level of entertainment.  And right now, Inquisition is off the charts.  I'm absolutely immersed right now, and can't get enough of it.

So while those that like Auto-Selection get to keep their already exisiting option, the ones losing their ability to have Manual selections simply have to tough it? And this is because Casual players cannot fathom RPG's, prefer to ignore the mechanics, and it may satisfiy the standards of immersion and entertainment for them alone?

Right; cannot imagine why anyone would complain about this....

[Back Lot Basher]

So while those that like Auto-Selection get to keep their already exisiting option, the ones losing their ability to have Manual selections simply have to tough it? And this is because Casual players cannot fathom RPG's, prefer to ignore the mechanics, and it may satisfiy the standards of immersion and entertainment for them alone?

Right; cannot imagine why anyone would complain about this....

 

Don't shoot the messenger.  I'm just commenting on the state of the industry.  Would I like to have control over my attribute points?  Sure.  Does not having control ruin my game.  No.  

 

I had an EA pass trial, so I knew there would be no attribute points for me to allocate.  I was disappointed at first, but then I realized that I do still get a degree of control over the build, through the selection of passives (which can be re-specced as many times as you want).  Obviously I'm not going to turn a rogue into a two-fisted warrior, but there would be no point in that anyway, considering the skills you have at your disposal.  Even knowing this, I loved the trial and bought the digital version because I knew it was a great game.

 

The bottom line is, triple-A games are all doing this.  They want to appeal to a wide audience, so they streamline hardcore RPG elements.  It's not ideal, because we don't see as many (if any) interesting, creative niche games.  But as long as DA:I gives me some solid entertainment value, I'll get my money's worth.

[Elhanan]

Don't shoot the messenger.  I'm just commenting on the state of the industry.  Would I like to have control over my attribute points?  Sure.  Does not having control ruin my game.  No.  
 
I had an EA pass trial, so I knew there would be no attribute points for me to allocate.  I was disappointed at first, but then I realized that I do still get a degree of control over the build, through the selection of passives (which can be re-specced as many times as you want).  Obviously I'm not going to turn a rogue into a two-fisted warrior, but there would be no point in that anyway, considering the skills you have at your disposal.  Even knowing this, I loved the trial and bought the digital version because I knew it was a great game.
 
The bottom line is, triple-A games are all doing this.  They want to appeal to a wide audience, so they streamline hardcore RPG elements.  It's not ideal, because we don't see as many (if any) interesting, creative niche games.  But as long as DA:I gives me some solid entertainment value, I'll get my money's worth.

Guess I cannot grasp why a wider audience equates to one that so much is done for them, and inhibits a greater connection to the character. Great length and cost was implemented to CC, Item crafting, tailoring, etc; the aesthetics, but lacks the same kind of freedom for actually designing the characters. This seems counter-productive to me.

And I expect to a large degree that I will also enjoy the game. However, I am already disappointed at the lack of Player control for the builds, as well as having the solo game balanced based upon DA-MP.

[aries1001]

In Baldur's Gate and BG2 there wasn't any attribute points to - ehm - level up. All was done through gear e.g. belts. swords, rings, weapons, armor etc. And if I were to prefer anything this would be this e.g. no attribute points at at all during level up. Do you as the player want to raise your strength? Fine, then go find a belt or a ring that does that, do you as rogue want to raise your dexterity? Fine, go find a helmet or armour that does just that.... 

[Elhanan]

In Baldur's Gate and BG2 there wasn't any attribute points to - ehm - level up. All was done through gear e.g. belts. swords, rings, weapons, armor etc. And if I were to prefer anything this would be this e.g. no attribute points at at all during level up. Do you as the player want to raise your strength? Fine, then go find a belt or a ring that does that, do you as rogue want to raise your dexterity? Fine, go find a helmet or armour that does just that....

Again, this is not D&D, but another IP that uses Attributes that have Lvl Up bonuses, at least in the past games. And when Players have something removed, nerfed, restricted, etc, there should be an expectation of resistance and complaints. If this had been given some debate, discussion, or simply stated well before release, this may not be as a heated topic for many as it is currently.

And I much prefer my characters to have the Attributes and abilities; not some artifact. It did not work out that well for Bilbo, Frodo, and Sméagol either....

[Cavemandiary]

To be honest, I was one of the biggest opponents of the attribute change, especially with so much time passing between levels.
While I still would have preferred it the other way, it is not as bad as i believed. It least not on the first playthrough.

[Elhanan]

To be honest, I was one of the biggest opponents of the attribute change, especially with so much time passing between levels.
While I still would have preferred it the other way, it is not as bad as i believed. It least not on the first playthrough.

I do not believe it is bad; I believe it is disappointing.

While I still await the game, I watch the various Streams and vids looking for info. And what I have seen thus far is that while every mage, Rogue, and Warrior may look different, they all have the same base design. They begin the game alike, and at end game, there is a greater chance of similarity due to other restrictions made to the game.

Personally, I prefer variety; the freedom to create, test, and make something that can be extraordinary. Being the 'Same' is not bad in itself, but sure lacks for variety.

[Proposition_Joe]

Damn Elhanan, you carry some strong arguments that seem obvious, wonder why the developers decide to put the roleplaying in the backseat for this title. This might just be one of the most dumbed down titles in along while. While other titles are taking the other direction with more choices and freedom, Bioware choose to go the other way to broaden their audience (?). How pity for us that likes diversion of choice.

[Elhanan]

Thanks, but I do not believe in the 'Dumbed Down' theory either; simply contend that allowing the Player to make choices good and bad is synergetic with the same ideals that are held with outward customization. I am hoping that Bioware can see this, and make changes going forward.

See, I like the moves made in DA2 with Tiers, integrated Skills, Full VO, and some other changes from DAO. What I dislike are restrictions made to weapons, quicklslots, and other like areas that limit the Player from character design; outwardly and internal. Now we have more options and freedom for Items and CC; believe that doing the same for character design would be another improvement.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I like to raise my constitution in these types of games while playing as a mage. The reason? I like to have a nice buffer zone of health to keep myself from dying. I dislike how I gotta invest in the storm or spirit tree to have anything even resembling that, and not be allowed to make that kind of decision myself.

[Elhanan]

I like to raise my constitution in these types of games while playing as a mage. The reason? I like to have a nice buffer zone of health to keep myself from dying. I dislike how I gotta invest in the storm or spirit tree to have anything even resembling that, and not be allowed to make that kind of decision myself.

Was kinda afraid of this. I prefer to have higher DEX as a Mage, but also wish to have the freedom of choice when selecting Specializations and Spell tiers. Thanks for the tip; will try and plan ahead.

[Mark of the Dragon]

Huge mistake. I loved choosing where my stats went and developing my character

[Naphtali]

I hear you, the mechanics are different,so instead of loading up a mage with dex and con, you can now teleport through any melee opponent closing in and use barrier much more frequently now.

 

Im not disagreeing with you, Im just saying characters are not as helpless to attributes as they use to be on  the old eclipse engine