3034 réponses à ce sujet

[Bekkael]

Again, people never played bulders gate?

 

It's BALDUR'S GATE ffs, and this discussion is about DRAGON AGE. What happened in another game franchise has no bearing on this franchise, m'kay?

[Nohvarr]

Bioware tends to be silent when they make such unpopular changes, never answering or giving their reasoning.

Why should they bother to explain it? People have already made up their minds and nothing they say will change that. Best to let the game come out and allow people to play it for themselves.

[Morroian]

Wait, how is making the attribute system like bg1 and 2 making it more simplistic?

 

You have been repeatedly refuted on this point.

[UniformGreyColor]

That did happen on several occasions in DAO actually.

 

Willpower had it happen once or twice as well.

 

Don't forget mage, grey warden, intimidate, and persuade. There might be others.

[Morroian]

Why should they bother to explain it? People have already made up their minds and nothing they say will change that. Best to let the game come out and allow people to play it for themselves.

 

I for one might be more accepting of it.

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

In DAO you had unique dialogue for having high cunning.

 

No, you got extra dialogue from the persuasion skill. It happened to arbitrarily require 16 cunning to max out but having 16 cunning didn't suddenly mean you were any more clever.

 

These dialogue skills are making a return but are now part of the inquisition XP perks you can buy and therefore are not restricted by your stats.

[Nohvarr]

It's BALDUR'S GATE ffs, and this discussion is about DRAGON AGE. What happened in another game franchise has no bearing on this franchise, m'kay?

People are bringing up 'Old School' RPG's as another reason this change is bad, the mention is justified.

[Ryzaki]

Don't forget mage, grey warden, intimidate, and persuade. There might be others.

 

Oh yeah those too. It's expected you get extra dialogue with intimidate and persuade tho

[Ryzaki]

No, you got extra dialogue from the persuasion skill. It happened to arbitrarily require 16 cunning to max out but having 16 cunning didn't suddenly mean you were any more clever.

 

These dialogue skills are making a return but are now part of the inquisition XP perks you can buy and therefore are not restricted by your stats.

 

No

 

The dialogue had (cunning) next to it.

 

That was not the persuade choice.

 

You also got an unmarked extra cunning choice with Flemeth. "Believed or not somethings must be accepted." I had no points in persuade. I did however have high cunning.

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

Why would wielding a heavy weapon make you stronger? Really?

 

You could've used the why does leather armor make you more cunning joke at least. Where is that picture...

 

HERE IT IS

 

 

Over time wielding a Warhammer will build musicle but that is not the same thing as suddenly being 12+ of STR stronger........whatever that means.

But......you know what I meant!

[Lucy Glitter]

From what I have read it seems that attribute points are still there, but rely on different things to attain them. Seriously, this isn't a big deal. I think a lot of Inquisition's new system is about encouraging players to utilise real tactics as in both Origins and 2 you could get by with only a bit of dabbling in the tactical elements of the game. I feel like all of this (plus the lack of healing spells etc.) is just BW's solution to making a game in where players have to utilise tactics. I like that  A LOT.

[Morroian]

Theres plenty of roleplaying games that have not had stat allocation as part of them. The Witcher 2 doesn't have stat allocation and instead is purely a talent based system but nobody complains about how thats limiting role-playing or character build variety in the game. 

 

Uh yeah some people do actually.

[Nohvarr]

I for one might be more accepting of it.

Then you'll be just as accepting when you get your hands on the game itself. Bioware can say whatever they want, but the proof is in the playing. That is where you really change minds.

[Ryzaki]

Over time wielding a Warhammer will build musicle but that is not the same thing as suddenly being 12+ of STR stronger........whatever that means.

But......you know what I meant!

 

Thus magic rune. It makes you muscles develop faster obvs

 

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

No

 

The dialogue had (cunning) next to it.

 

That was not the persuade choice.

 

Oh your right, there were some stats options like that. I forgot, I played Warrior so much. lol

As I said, they've made stats purely combat related in DA: I. Dialogue skills have been moved to the Inquisition XP so whatever your build is, it won't effect what dialogue perks you can get. Which is a system that I prefer.

[AutumnWitch]

Another example of fixing something that isn't broken. Sigh..... I personally HATE the idea of keeping track of all different sorts of armour and weapons as I play. I don't mind upgrading my armour and weapons a few times during the game but this would seem we will need to change armour and/weapons much more often depending on each battle/occasion we use them. Just let us fecking play and stop reinventing the bloody wheel.

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

Uh yeah some people do actually.

 

Errr, I guess I'm too use to people praising the Witcher 2 like it was the second coming of Christ that I don't notice the complaints. lol

[10K]

But it's not only the gear that dictates stats. The skills you choose also improve them.

I'm specifically talking about gear. It's ridiculous to think a bow will make my character more cunning. Damage output should be dictated by which weapons you're wielding. Armor should dictate your defense. They shouldn't dictate how cunning my character is. Carrying a bow doesn't make someone smarter, because if it did I'd carry my hunting bow with me to my exams all the time.

[Star fury]

It's BALDUR'S GATE ffs, and this discussion is about DRAGON AGE. What happened in another game franchise has no bearing on this franchise, m'kay?

Just report him for trolling. He already mentioned "bulder's gate" hundreds times and doesn't stop with this offtopic. He also ignores all replies when you show him that BG 1 & 2 had attribute allocation in the beginning.

[Lebanese Dude]

Sometimes I wish people here would analyze before going on a tilt,


In DAO, stats have had a few purposes:

1. Make the character grow stronger independent of gear
2. Constrain character growth by limiting outfit options by stats, demanding an investment in a major attribute
3. Provide limitations to skill usage,
4. Provide requirements for ability learning.
5. Provide some choice in the direction you want your character to grow, with each class having 2 main stats

So basically stat level up was a choice that had several options but only two were rewarding, as ignoring these two stats would hurt your character progression and outfit power growth. You needed high strength to be a 2-H warrior, etc...
So it seems stats were less about becoming stronger and more about hitting a number to unlock some abilities.
So stat level up was essentially a non-choice. Pick strength as a warrior or die.

In DA2

1. Character grew stronger independent of gear
2. Outfits had two stat requirements
3. Provide limitations for lock picking
4. Provide direction for your class to grow

Most notably, they went away with stat requirements for abilities and constrained it to level. This allowed more freedom in ability selection.
Stats till served a purpose to make your character stronger.
However, stat choice was even More strict than that of DAO. You needed to satisfy two attribute requirements to wear gear appropriate for your class. If you invested in constitution as a blood mage, you still had to invest willpower.
Skills went away, and only rogues had lock picking, so the rogues had to invest in high amount of cunning to keep up with the chests.
Stats did not feel very significant in DA2, but they still to provided power growth.


With DAI

1. Characters grow stronger independent of gear, depending on ability choices.
2. Outfits dont have stat requirements and can be worn by any class without punishing the player by demanding non-class stat choices
3. Provide direction for your character o grow.

In DAI it seems they have effectively increased character freedom by removing the concept of stat restrictions.
Characters have more (logical) options in outfit and ability selections compared to previous games.
You are now capable of picking the stats of your choice to invest in, using abilities or gear, without hampering your ability development
Skills have returned and seem to be independent of stat growth. I can't imagine "Nobility knowledge" requires you to wear a monocle with +50 suave to use it.

So compared to DAO and DA2, DAI provides a net INCREASE in character development options.
Stats requirements were used to limit the player more often than not.

So all in all, we might miss the attribute allocation part of level up, but we gain so much more in terms of potential choices.

[Ryzaki]

Oh your right, there were some stats options like that. I forgot, I played Warrior so much. lol

As I said, they've made stats purely combat related in DA: I. Dialogue skills have been moved to the Inquisition XP so whatever your build is, it won't effect what dialogue perks you can get. Which is a system that I prefer.

 

That's usually why I threw some minor cunning points on my warriors. I couldn't get the Flemeth ones (since she wanted way too much cunning for the low lvl I was as a warrior ) but I could get the rest.

 

I still don't see why they can't let us pick the starting stats if nothing else. That bit of characterization really makes a difference to me *sigh*

 

Hopefully they'll be a mod that does it for me but I have my doubts.

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

Thus magic rune. It makes you muscles develop faster obvs

 

So if you remove that magic rune your muscles suddenly shrink? Sounds painful.

[ShadowLordXII]

From what I have read it seems that attribute points are still there, but rely on different things to attain them. Seriously, this isn't a big deal. I think a lot of Inquisition's new system is about encouraging players to utilise real tactics as in both Origins and 2 you could get by with only a bit of dabbling in the tactical elements of the game. I feel like all of this (plus the lack of healing spells etc.) is just BW's solution to making a game in where players have to utilise tactics. I like that  A LOT.

 

We won't know that for certain till we actually play the game.

 

Hopefully it will be better than it sounds.

[DooomCookie]

  I will keep the faith...

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

I'm specifically talking about gear. It's ridiculous to think a bow will make my character more cunning. Damage output should be dictated by which weapons you're wielding. Armor should dictate your defense. They shouldn't dictate how cunning my character is. Carrying a bow doesn't make someone smarter, because if it did I'd carry my hunting bow with me to my exams.

 

Err, peoples "stats" don't level up in a short period of time either. If we want realism, then stats should be static and have character development be purely skill based.