3034 réponses à ce sujet

[Vilegrim]

Yes, and now you can do all this, only you put the stat improving points into your talents selections and the gear you equip.  And you can keep the appearance of old gear, but improve it with new materials to put in the slots.  

 

I am impressed by your variety of builds.  I only played through DA:O twice.  However I imagine you can have the same variety, or of a similar level, but your tools for doing so come from customizing the gear in addition to the talents and abilities you select for your party, as opposed to distributing a handful of skill points, which permit you to select certain gear and talents.  kind of cart before the horse, only they both get you to the same place.

 

Lets not forget the jewelry, belts and amulets.  What were they if not equippable stat boosters?

 

Yes, and now you can do all this, only you put the stat improving points into your talents selections and the gear you equip.  And you can keep the appearance of old gear, but improve it with new materials to put in the slots.  

 

I am impressed by your variety of builds.  I only played through DA:O twice.  However I imagine you can have the same variety, or of a similar level, but your tools for doing so come from customizing the gear in addition to the talents and abilities you select for your party, as opposed to distributing a handful of skill points, which permit you to select certain gear and talents.  kind of cart before the horse, only they both get you to the same place.

 

Lets not forget the jewelry, belts and amulets.  What were they if not equippable stat boosters?

 

 

it's that being part of the gear I object to as a concept.  I flat out dislike the idea of the clothes maketh the man, in real life as well as in game.

[Lebanese Dude]

Woah, bro. Take a chill pill, it seems my opinon has thrown you off the deep end or something.

 

Firstly, "redundant abilities and spells to waste points" are subjective. I found a lot of DAO magic's to be useful. Maybe you just used the same 10 abilties all the time with your class but all together I used loads of different mage builds and it was great fun for replaying because I got to play the game with my favourite class but a completely different style. In DAI, I get the feeling specializations are going to be the only difference for my mages and they'll end up all playing the same way. #

 

And also why shouldn't be allowed put strength in mages, it might give me a sucky mage but hey it's my playthrough and my choices. Why shouldn't I be allowed to make my character play out as a I see fit? It's not effecting anyone elses play through so if I want to play a sucky mage, let me play a sucky mage. Although playing a Warrior with high dex or a blood mage with high con was one of my favorite playthrough in DAO and I doubt I'm going to have the luxury of either in DAI.

 

Also I'm gonna come right out and say I'm no hardcore RPG player. Hell, I play more stealth games than RPG's but that doesn't suddenly mean I have to like this new system. I consider myself a casual RPG player but that doesn't mean I need the developers holding my hands when it comes to bullding the PC.

 

That was a general reply. I only quoted yours because it was the closest one to click.

 

To put it short, since I'm tired of reiterating myself, your playthroughs and your choices in DAO and DA2 are irrelevant to the discussion.

You will have new playthroughs and new choices in DAI that follows a different design paradigm from its predecessors. 

 

You will still be able to make a sucky mage in your own playthrough with your own choices. it just won't rely on stats.

 

Moving on.

[Rawgrim]

You got it right in your own comment against me. Congratulations.

That's exactly what equipment is.

 

Exactly. And not what your body or mind is. You do know the difference, no? Your pants doesn't make you more intelligent. Learning does.

[falconlord5]

It's not elitism,it's pure fact.I've been gaming for 18 years and this generation of gaming is ****** easy,almost every game holds the player's hand and treats them like a bunch of idiots who can't do anything for themselves.

 

That's just a sad reality of gaming today and I disagree wholeheartedly with the last line.

 

It's elitism. Or, you're playing games that weren't worth your time to begin with.

 

I've been playing games as long as you, if not longer. And I've played some damned hard games in the later generations, from Alpha Protocol to Deus Ex: Human Revolution to Total War.

 

You can ****** and moan about the dumbing down of games all you want, but the simple fact is that it's not true.

 

Really?  I used self-imposed challenges because I couldn't afford a new game, not because I wasn't smart enough to play a different game.  But in your mind, the two are the same...  "Poor" people are just too stupid to get themselves more money, huh?

 

Don't put words in my mouth. I acknowledge that I failed to take into account the financial status of some gamers.

 

I see you've elegantly dodged the question.....well done.

 

You said games that have hard difficulties that just increase enemy health and damage are poorly made,so I guess in your own words every single game that uses such a system is as well?

 

I hope you can see how dumb that statement is.

 

Yes. The vast majority of games, along with TV, books, movies, and everything else we produce, is very badly done.

 

In gaming terms, if all difficulty levels do is bump up the numbers, then it is poorly designed. An increase in difficulty should be things like more complex patrol pattern, new spells, or new stages in the boss fight.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I don't think you know what I describe, Sylvius and it's definitely not that. If I wanted an auto-winning button, I wouldn't play on nightmare difficulty.

That's not on topic, though.

It's totally on topic. This is about gameplay features that violate the coherence of the world. You making decisions from any perspective other than your character's is such a thing.

If the game is well-designed, then the whole game can progress without you breaking character. If there's a forced segregation of roleplaying from other aspects of gameplay, what is the point in having those other aspects? We may as well just auto-win if we're just going to headcanon the details later.

If character differences need to be headcanoned rather than being represented through stats, what's the point of the stats?

[Maeshone]

First decision I find questionable about the game so far. Not a dealbreaker by any means, and I like it if this means rogues don't need to dump all their points into cunning be able to open locked things. But yeah, I kinda want to be able to shape my characters strengths and weaknesses when he levels up, not just by crafting...

[Muspade]

Exactly. And not what your body or mind is. You do know the difference, no? Your pants doesn't make you more intelligent. Learning does.

I am aware of the difference. I am also acutely aware that the intelligence of my PC is not dictated by my combat stats.

[falconlord5]

You visual appearance isn't the reason why you grow smarter or stronger, no.

 

Perhaps not. It is, however, a vital part of your character. And for a warrior, lugging around heavy armour and swinging a big old sword will make him stronger.

[Gtdef]

Yes, by letting you hang yourself by making bad choices. choices that are beign taken away to be replaced with simplified and idiot proofed mechanics which are removing all flavour from the genre.

 

You do understand that the "good old games" didn't have the concept of choice, do you? You are this stick that jumps. Finish the level.

 

Just because a newcomer may not understand what attributes do, doesn't mean he can't just go online and learn. Then beat the game eyes closed. Congratulations. Difficult game.

 

The difficult part of the games you describe is understanding what stuff does. And that's difficult only because people still go by the old definitions of attributes and other features.

 

Like your dex tank. You use it as the example of "much variation in builds" when the dex tank is the obvious best tank for the game and people don't get it because they think tank=health=constitution.

[xkg]

And cosmetics have nothing to do with character, of course. I mean, punks don't dye their hair unnatural colours, business types don't wear suits, MRA's don't blaspheme against the trilby.

 

None of that happens, right? We're not at all defined by our visual appearances in the real world.

 

Not necessarily. I had a job. I had to cut my hair very short. I had to wear a suit. I hate both of these.

I had to do it against my character because my work required me to do so.

 

I wasn't defined at all by that. My job was, you could say but not me, not my personality.

[Muspade]

 We may as well just auto-win if we're just going to headcanon the details later.

No, we may not, Sylvius. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Yes. The vast majority of games, along with TV, books, movies, and everything else we produce, is very badly done.

90% of everything is crap.

I would prefer that BioWare's games fall within the top decile. They traditionally have.

[thevaleyard]

This is why we need mod tools. Or a data editor. Or something.

 

The people who are happy with what Bioware has done can play vanilla while the rest can mod the game to their liking. Everyone's happy in the end.

 

Of course it won't do much good if you're playing on a console...

[Rawgrim]

What? Of course it is a build. Your gear forms part of your build. That's just a basic RPG staple. You shape your character's build through a mix of their own capabilities and their equipment. And DA:I will allow this. It juts moves one of the aspects of the build which is often applied directly to the character to the equipment instead.

 

Icreasing the stats, and wich stat, should be the player's choice and it should be applied directly to the character itself. Not his boots. Boots arn't sentient and intelligent beings. As I hope you know.

[falconlord5]

Not necessarily. I had a job. I had to cut my hair very short. I had to wear a suit. I hate both of these.

I had to do it against my character because my work required me to do so.

 

I wasn't defined at all by that. My job was, you could say but not me, not my personality.

 

Ah, but you were. In a negative sense, sure, because you hated it. But it still shaped you, and shaped people's perceptions of you.

 

And that, really, is what roleplaying is all about.

[prosthetic soul]

BioWare, you need to listen to the wisest, most majestic creature in the animal kingdom.  I really need you to let its words sink in for this one.  Okay?  Are you ready? 

 

Spoiler

[cjones91]

It's elitism. Or, you're playing games that weren't worth your time to begin with.

 

I've been playing games as long as you, if not longer. And I've played some damned hard games in the later generations, from Alpha Protocol to Deus Ex: Human Revolution to Total War.

 

You can ****** and moan about the dumbing down of games all you want, but the simple fact is that it's not true.

 

 

Don't put words in my mouth. I acknowledge that I failed to take into account the financial status of some gamers.

 

 

Yes. The vast majority of games, along with TV, books, movies, and everything else we produce, is very badly done.

 

In gaming terms, if all difficulty levels do is bump up the numbers, then it is poorly designed. An increase in difficulty should be things like more complex patrol pattern, new spells, or new stages in the boss fight.

Keep telling yourself that.I've played hundreds of games,everything from Pokémon to GTA to Metal Gear Solid,and this generation has been one big coddle fest. When developers are afraid of players being put off by challenging aspects of their games and so "streamline" them then it's a problem.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

That was a general reply. I only quoted yours because it was the closest one to click.

 

To put it short, since I'm tired of reiterating myself, your playthroughs and your choices in DAO and DA2 are irrelevant to the discussion.

You will have new playthroughs and new choices in DAI that follows a different design paradigm from its predecessors. 

 

You will still be able to make a sucky mage in your own playthrough with your own choices. it just won't rely on stats.

 

Moving on.

 

Yes, our playthroughs of previous games that are related and have a new Cloud based system is now irrelevant....Lovely...

 

Compare and contrast is something people do in order to see how things are. So we are not allowed to do this now because this is irrelevant to you ? I thought you were all about being positive ?

 

Sure it follows a different design but you act like it is somehow a heresy of some form for people to want some things that make up the gameplay experience to be preserved...

[AshenEndymion]

I have not played very far into the game's overall content... maybe about 15 hours in and a lot of that was spent clearing out the first "open" environment.  But I agree with this assessment based on how I have played the game thus far.

 

How many times have you touched the crafting menu?  If it was only once or twice in 15 hours, then it still sounds optional...  If you've gone into it more than that, then I will continue to doubt the veracity of the idea that crafting is optional...

[nialler]

Point - missing it. 

 

In DAO, and partly in DA2, the way I chose to build my character shaped what my character could do, NOT THE GEAR, the gear was just there to enchance, or boost the character performance NOT SHAPE IT.

You're also missing the changes made in DA:I.

 

The gear is not limited to any class or based on any attributes, outside of weapons you can equip.  Armor can be equipped on all classes - you then modify the armor to get the stats you want.  

[Rawgrim]

Perhaps not. It is, however, a vital part of your character. And for a warrior, lugging around heavy armour and swinging a big old sword will make him stronger.

 

Or more dexterious, or durable. That should be up to the player. Not some auto level up and a bonus you can add to a pair of shoes.

[Sylvius the Mad]

No, we may not, Sylvius.

How can your character fail, then? Under what circumstances can he die?

[PhroXenGold]

Exactly. And not what your body or mind is. You do know the difference, no? Your pants doesn't make you more intelligent. Learning does.

 

On the other hand, my magically enhanced pants might do. In fact, magcially enhanced gear is a far more reasonably explanation for the level of stat increases you get in DA than learning/practising etc. I think it's far more likely that my magically enhanced suit of armour will allow me to increase my strength fivefold than simply fighting and working out for a couple of months.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

BioWare, you need to listen to the wisest, most majestic creature in the animal kingdom.  I really need you to let its words sink in for this one.  Okay?  Are you ready? 

 

Spoiler

 

Bioware seems to love change just for the sake of it. 

[Rawgrim]

I am aware of the difference. I am also acutely aware that the intelligence of my PC is not dictated by my combat stats.

 

Quite right. It would be dictated by one of the mental stats, and it should be your choice to pick what to increase on your character. Directly onto the character. Not through an item of clothing.