3034 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

 
So, what happened with Bioware's statement that "Crafting is 100% optional"?

 

It still is. But I am not sure you will beat the game without it. Sounds like the ME3 multiplayer won't affect the single player quote, to be honest.

[Steelcan]

And I think that's a stupid idea. Just let us distribute our attribute points instead of autoleveling or being forced ro craft armor with the stats we want.

[Vilegrim]

Sigh.  You get stats when you level up, you just dont distribute those points.  You get additional stats from CUSTOMIZING YOUR GEAR FROM SCRATCH and talent selection in trees.

 

You are taking the points you would put in 6 attribute pools when you leveled up, and instead putting them in gear ANYONE can equip at ANY TIME you want.  You aren't being forced to do anything, no more than you were "forced" to put your 3 attribute points in a pool when you level up in DA:O.

 

 

thsu changing stats from a build choice like talents into a function of equipment as they are in MMOs..shows the lie of MP having no affect on SP yet again.

[The Elder King]

It still is. But I am not sure you will beat the game without it. Sounds like the ME3 multiplayer won't affect the single player quote, to be honest.

I think It depends on the difficulty level. I don't think Normal will require it To beat the game. Hard probably needs it.

[Kleon]

If you want to test how well the combat system does and gain metrics for balancing you need to test powers at different challenge levels The Mp environment is a self contained area which scales in difficulty from the beginning to the end. The SP environments are gated at specific levels by design. You could load up different maps populated by diffetne level enemies but why would you when the MP environment does that already and is more compact so you don;t spend half you test time travelling these huge areas inbetween fights. 

 

The MP arena a perfect test environment for thrashing mechanics and aquiring data. It does not prove at all that the entire combat system and choice to restrict attribute increases to talent choices and gear is a direct resilt of introducing co-op multiplayer.
 

 

Testing enviroment shaped and molded the develper's idea of combat.

[Rawgrim]

Sigh.  You get stats when you level up, you just dont distribute those points.  You get additional stats from CUSTOMIZING YOUR GEAR FROM SCRATCH and talent selection in trees.

 

You are taking the points you would put in 6 attribute pools when you leveled up, and instead putting them in gear ANYONE can equip at ANY TIME you want.  You aren't being forced to do anything, no more than you were "forced" to put your 3 attribute points in a pool when you level up in DA:O.

 

When your character levels up, some of his stats gets raised. The game makes that choice for you. In addition to this, you can place your own stat points to some piece of clothing. Not on the character itself. Which means you have no say in what happens to his character. Just what he wears.

[Muspade]

thsu changing stats from a build choice like talents into a function of equipment as they are in MMOs..shows the lie of MP having no affect on SP yet again.

 It's easy to see the devil in things you don't like, isn't it?

[jtav]

If the game world never reacts to me having high strength or cunning, then it's all just combat. I've never been a player who cared overmuch about gameplay optimization. I can still have a clever or charming Inquisitor, It's just the mechanic that's changed.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Except I do! I choose how my character develops first by picking their class, and then their preferred weapons, and then their specialization.

I have chosen. I don't need to keep making the same damn choice over and over and over again everytime I level up.

But assigning the points yourself means you have more options among which to choose.

As it is, every 2H Warrior is going to be the same in terms of his attributes. I'd rather that we have more options than that.

[KoorahUK]

The statement makes it clear the decision was made to fortce SP to have similar mechanics to MP, thus the ruining of SP by this concept.

Erm no it really, really doesn't. At all. 

It says when you have an environment that allows you to efficiently test the rules and mechanics you have built, you use it.

[EnduinRaylene]

We have no idea how little or how much the Attribute distribution and allocation is at level up. That will make a world of difference in how the system works. Is it still 3 per level or is just 1 or 2? How weighted are the allocations based on class? What are the base stats for each class at level 1? How do stats factor into combat in DAI compared to DAO or DA2, is the difference between 10 and 15 substantial or merely incremental?

 

We've already seen just level 9 weapons that offer +12 in Str and level 17 weapons offering +36 Magic, which is way higher than anything in DAO or DA2 where +5 was a huge attribute bonus in the endgame. Though we have also seen weapons and armor that offer no stat bonuses or only +3 or +6, but many of those had open slots for upgrades so it may be required that we use runes and enchantments to bolster those items to our liking.

 

If our base stats remain relatively low for the whole game, sub 20s, and the lion's share of our attributes are actually dictated by equipment then I don't see the problem as much. Sure you may have 20 Str and only 12 Dex at base as a warrior at level 17, but with equipment factored in you might be able to boost your Dex up to 50 or 60 if you wanted. It may not be perfect but the option is still there if you are so inclined.

 

If this screen from the Gamescom demo is accurate, it would seem like our equipment completely dictates our stats, since everything but Str is only at 10. That or as a warrior the game only dumps attributes every level into Str. Or it's a demo build and everything is tweaked/faked for that experience. Either way we just don't know since we only see weapon stats, not armor and ring/belt stats, which could account for the 21 points in Str.

 

 

As for it making sense that attributes are tied with equipment, I don't really care. I have rarely found attributes in RPGs to satisfactorily make sense within the world. They are a means to an end and an abstract of combat, which is where I really define my character. What I do in combat and how I do it is what matters to me, not the stats, or how I acquired those stats, on the character sheet. I don't need to dump stats manually with tickers each level to properly RP, my suspension of disbelief is strong enough to not care about such trivial matters in light of such a huge game that offers a myriad of choices for me to define my character how I desire.

 

This though is all greatly dependent on how restrictive or nonrestrictive crafting and upgrading armors is in order boost stats and how attribute allocations work at level up. If they really don't provide much in the way of player choice then I can't say I'll be too happy, even if I don't normally make unorthodox builds. 

[falconlord5]

You have chosen between 3 classes. 2 of them has 2 different weaponstyles. Tht bit there alone is extremely limited. Add the scpecialization in there and you actually only have 3 choices. 5 if you add gender or race into the mix. So 5 choices. Thats it. In an rpg. You don't find that rather limited when the average amount of choices in games like this is somewhere between 30 and 40 options?

 

The choice is up to the individual player.

 

No, because you don't actually have thirty to forty options in an RPG, no matter what the PR department tells you.

 

You pick a class. Or a clan. Or a specialization. Or whatever the game decides to call it. This selection automatically decides which weapons you are going to use and how your stats are going to play out, whether or not the build is optimized. For the very simple reason that each class can only work with certain weapons or armours, and that there are only so many talents. The hard restrictions on weapons (I'm talking archers unable to use swords or mages unable to use heavy armour) influence the equally-hard restrictions on talents/spells/whatever. Which means the number of options goes from thirty-forty to five-ten the second you make a decision. And that's assuming there's no gender or race restrictions in there too.

 

Sure, you can customize within those options (soft restrictions) but the simple truth is that you really only have a handful of options to begin with.

[Vilegrim]

Erm no it really, really doesn't. At all. 

It says when you have an environment that allows you to efficiently test the rules and mechanics you have built, you use it.

 

 

rules and mechanics built for a multiplayer battle arena, meaning the infection is spreading, ideally the MP would have been developed by another team in another studio, preferably on another continent who never communicated with the SP team, so the quarantine could be maintained

[Sylvius the Mad]

When this thread started, I thought this was good news, because it looked like the stat allocation the player chose at character creation would have a greater impact.

But now I see that they just eliminated this aspect of character design entirely.

[thevaleyard]

If the game world never reacts to me having high strength or cunning, then it's all just combat. I've never been a player who cared overmuch about gameplay optimization. I can still have a clever or charming Inquisitor, It's just the mechanic that's changed.

 

But the gameworld in DAO did react to you having those attributes.You could unlock special dialogue with Flemeth if you had enough cunning. If you had a high enough willpower you could resist the shade in the Brecillian forest.

[AshenEndymion]

You still find loot at every street corner.

 

You can find crafting materials on every street corner.  None of the gameplay videos I've seen have shown a player actually picking up loot to demonstrate what is in it(save for the one scripted bit at E3 where they pick up the armor)...

[The Elder King]

When your character levels up, some of his stats gets raised. The game makes that choice for you. In addition to this, you can place your own stat points to some piece of clothing. Not on the character itself. Which means you have no say in what happens to his character. Just what he wears.

While I don't know how good This is, passives increase stats as well.

[cjones91]

You haven't pointed out a single fact in this debate, just your deeply biased opinions against gamers of this generation. To someone who's grown up on video games and remembers the endless whining about the difficulty of old Nintendo games from back in the day.

 

Try it on somebody else, kid. Gamers were any better than they are now.

 

And yes, telling people to get better or drop the game is elitist.

 

 

Except they don't. The magically enhanced stats of the armour leave, but the stats you gain from actually levelling up stay there.

I'm going to leave this here and drop the argument since we have very different viewpoints on this gaming generation.

 

http://www.forbes.co...ts-a-bad-thing/

 

Also calling me kid?Lol.

[falconlord5]

It still is. But I am not sure you will beat the game without it. Sounds like the ME3 multiplayer won't affect the single player quote, to be honest.

 

Or, you know, you could just loot.

 

When your character levels up, some of his stats gets raised. The game makes that choice for you. In addition to this, you can place your own stat points to some piece of clothing. Not on the character itself. Which means you have no say in what happens to his character. Just what he wears.

 

Except that what your character wears is a part of their character.

[The Antagonist]

**** now it's gonna be harder to make myself invincible using cheat engine

[The Elder King]

But assigning the points yourself means you have more options among which to choose.
As it is, every 2H Warrior is going to be the same in terms of his attributes. I'd rather that we have more options than that.

Depends on the passives you choose, I guess.

You can find crafting materials on every street corner.  None of the gameplay videos I've seen have shown a player actually picking up loot to demonstrate what is in it(save for the one scripted bit at E3 where they pick up the armor)...

They did with a two-handed weapon They took from the Avvar leader at Gamescon .

[Steelcan]

Looted gear is usually crap or not for your class, RNG is too fickle a god to rely on

[Lebanese Dude]

As it is, every 2H Warrior is going to be the same in terms of his attributes. I'd rather that we have more options than that.

 

This assumes much.

 

First of all, you are saying that every 2-H warrior is going to follow the same ability path. That's just misguided.

 

Let's take DA2 as an example. Warriors had several different trees to choose from, and each tree branched in a way that allowed different degrees of investment.

 

It is apparent from the screenshots that your attributes will fluctuate depending on your ability choices, so if you focus on "full out offense" and grab every offensive ability while ignoring defense, it's safe to assume that your attributes will be focused more on damage rather than survival. (Damage gives +3 strength, defense gives +3 constitution)

 

So no...different builds will produce different stats that match the choices to begin with. Your roleplaying is essentially reinforced.

 

If you want to play a zweihander-wielding destroyer of worlds, focus on abilities that destroy everyone and your stats will grow accordingly. 

[Vilegrim]

Depends on the passives you choose, I guess. They did with a two-handed weapon They took from the Avvar leader at Gamescon .

 

 

 

That was scripted, haven't seen it happen in actual gameplay footage yet.
 

[Rawgrim]

No, because you don't actually have thirty to forty options in an RPG, no matter what the PR department tells you.

 

You pick a class. Or a clan. Or a specialization. Or whatever the game decides to call it. This selection automatically decides which weapons you are going to use and how your stats are going to play out, whether or not the build is optimized. For the very simple reason that each class can only work with certain weapons or armours, and that there are only so many talents. The hard restrictions on weapons (I'm talking archers unable to use swords or mages unable to use heavy armour) influence the equally-hard restrictions on talents/spells/whatever. Which means the number of options goes from thirty-forty to five-ten the second you make a decision. And that's assuming there's no gender or race restrictions in there too.

 

Sure, you can customize within those options (soft restrictions) but the simple truth is that you really only have a handful of options to begin with.

 

You pick a class, sure. One out of 20-30 classes, usually. and\or combinations.

 

The selection gives you a set of starting skills or whatever based on your class. Yes. After that you can develop the character in any way you wish. Even learn to use armours or weapons you don't start out with. 99 percent of the games out there doesn't lock you in a track like this game does. You pick warrior, then two-handed style, and for the rest of the game all you know is how to wear a heavy armour and swing a big sword. That is restrictive to the extreme. Even Diablo has more options than this.

 

Being able to play a wizard who wears chainmail and wields a giant axe isn't a soft restriction at all. A poor choice, sure. But the option is still there.