3034 réponses à ce sujet

[EnduinRaylene]

What I want to know is how are the attribute points allocated at level up? Is there a fixed formula for each class? Does it alter once you acquire a specialization?

From the screens I posted that are now in the OP, it doesn't look like there is any auto allocation at level up. Only equipment and you selecting abilities increases them.

Varric and the Inquisitor are both rogues but the Inquisitor has only the base 10 in cunning, just like every other attribute, and 35 in dex. While Varric has 25 in both.

That means Varric's cunning is totally based on his passive abilities and equipment. If there is an auto allocation it would mean it only dumped points into dex, which seems unlikely. Especially because they are level 12, so there were auto increases at level they should be higher. 12x3=36. Where are the other 11 points? Con?

So I have a feeling attributes for everyone have a base 10 and can be permanently increased a little through certain abilities, while the bulk of it is increased via equipment. I could be totally wrong but from what we've actually seen this is what seems to be the case. Mike Laidlaw's tweet could easily have meant this and not auto allocation like many believe it says.

[KoorahUK]

Ah thats interesting. A number of people in this thread have said they'd rather there was no increase at all rather than auto allocation, which I actually agree with. I'm hoping this is the case.

[Vilegrim]

Mike said that points Are automatically allocated when leveling up.

 

 

 

because choices and consequences are bad.

[Vilegrim]

No it doesn't say that at all. Thats what you are choosing to see because you clearly don't like the thought of multiplayer, you don't like some of the design choices being made in the combat and seem determined to believe one has caused the other. 

Collelation does not prove causality. Never has, never will.

 

I believe this is the quote to which you are hanging you claim:
 

Was multiplayer (MP) mode created by the same team that made single-player (SP)?

·         MP and SP were developed side by side. The multiplayer environment gave us a perfect opportunity for testing combat, creatures, and encounter design, and since the two environments are near-identical, every improvement spread to both parts of the game.

 

If, when you are testing (be that in sp or mp), you find areas that need improvement you feed that back and implement changes. That is the entire point of testing. If the two environments are near-identical, what is the point in doing the same tests twice? Its the same combat, its the same enemies, its the same mechanics. Improvements made after testing affect combat in both SP and MP because its the same combat.

 

(Exhale)

And thats me done on the subject.

I'm sorry you don't like multiplayer (that you've never tried) and I'm sorry that you don't like radical changes to game mechanics (that you've never tried). Blaming one for the other is your right and if you still want to staunchly cling to that tenuous notion, knock yourself out. If you ever stop being angry about your interpretation of a single line in an FAQ which doesn't say what you think it does, please give the group in my sig a look. We'd be happy to help you. 

 

 

You say it yourself 'that are near identical' the cancer that is Bioware MP has infected single player.  MP if it has to exist should be developed by another team who never interact with the people developing single player mechanics preferably in a different studio, story well fair enough as long as the traffic is all one way, but never ever mechanics, MP mechanics make awful single player games, always have.

[Sylvius the Mad]

You say 'many more' but how many did Origins have, really? The rogue for example had 40, 24 of which crossed with the warrior making for 16 unique talents. 24 if you count the two specializations you can choose, topping at 32 when you count all four of them.

The Inquisition rogue has 52 entirely unique talents before we add the specializations. When we add the specializations, which, if Varric's Artificer is any indication, will hover around 11, the Inquisition rogue gets 63 unique talents in one playthrough, topping at 84 different choices.

The Inquisition rogue has almost double the amount of total talents the Origins rogue had. And all of the Inquisitions rogue talents are unique to the class.

I don't care how many Origins had. It wasn't nearly enough, given that they had to be learned in order.

And I also see no value in having the talents be unique to the class. If Rogue has 54, and Warrior has 54, I'm forced to wonder what I could have done with access to all 108.

That said, Inquisition does seem to have lots, and if we still only learn one per level, it seems like enough. But it's only enough if we can mix and match them. DA2 didn't offer nearly enough of that, because of how the chains were built with every ability having both prereqs and level requirements.

I modded the level requirements out of DA2, so that wasn't so bad, but since I'm not optimistic about our prospects for mods in Inquisition, I'm going to be a lot pickier.

[Keroko]

You say it yourself 'that are near identical' the cancer that is Bioware MP has infected single player.  MP if it has to exist should be developed by another team who never interact with the people developing single player mechanics preferably in a different studio, story well fair enough as long as the traffic is all one way, but never ever mechanics, MP mechanics make awful single player games, always have.

 

Halo disagrees, Command & Conquer disagrees, Red Alert disagrees, X-wing disagrees, Jedi Knight disagrees etc. etc. etc.

 

There are many, many games that have good singleplayer as well as multiplayer. Whether this will be the case for Inquisition is still up in the air, but it is not the guaranteed failure you paint it to be.

[badboy64]

Something less that I have to deal with when playing the game. I am glad they finally did it. I now can concentrate more on playing the game then where to allocate these attributes points all of the time.

[Keroko]

I don't care how many Origins had. It wasn't nearly enough, given that they had to be learned in order.

And I also see no value in having the talents be unique to the class. If Rogue has 54, and Warrior has 54, I'm forced to wonder what I could have done with access to all 108.

That said, Inquisition does seem to have lots, and if we still only learn one per level, it seems like enough. But it's only enough if we can mix and match them. DA2 didn't offer nearly enough of that, because of how the chains were built with every ability having both prereqs and level requirements.

I modded the level requirements out of DA2, so that wasn't so bad, but since I'm not optimistic about our prospects for mods in Inquisition, I'm going to be a lot pickier.

 

Apologies, most often when I see people complain about the skills in Inquisition they seem to believe that origins had more. But aside from mages (who already had 84 unique talents in Origins and still has 84 in Inquisition) the warrior and rogue had less.

 

Anyway, there doesn't seem to be a level requirement in Inquisition, just an advancement through the tree (which in and of itself is not a bad thing, otherwise people would just go for all the high-end skills straight of the bat).

[Sylvius the Mad]

Anyway, there doesn't seem to be a level requirement in Inquisition, just an advancement through the tree (which in and of itself is not a bad thing, otherwise people would just go for all the high-end skills straight of the bat).

I'd design it so that the higher-level talents required more points to buy, thus forcing low-level characters to save up for them.

[xkg]

Something less that I have to deal with when playing the game. I am glad they finally did it. I now can concentrate more on playing the game then where to allocate these attributes points all of the time.

 

Yesssss, If you didn't wanted to manually allocate the points, all you had to do in the previous games was go and click that auto level up button.

I guess it is too much work. Talking about the laziness of players nowadays.

 

Spoiler

 

You can do the same in DA2.

[Elhanan]

Something less that I have to deal with when playing the game. I am glad they finally did it. I now can concentrate more on playing the game then where to allocate these attributes points all of the time.

They may have already had such a fix earlier; the earlier games might have been able to Auto-post increases to Attributes. However, those that do enjoy allocating their own Attributes now lose their options. Seems rather counter-productive to me, and takes the chance at upsetting the fan base that support customized characters.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Something less that I have to deal with when playing the game. I am glad they finally did it. I now can concentrate more on playing the game then where to allocate these attributes points all of the time.

Point allocation is gameplay.

[Sylvius the Mad]

For example, in Origins coercion requires 10 cunning. So you put points in cunning until you have 10, and then you pick coercion. The Inquisition version of this would be the coercion talent automatically gives you enough cunning points to reach 10, no?

If this is the case, it would be the same result as before with fewer clicks.

And requires less planning, and fewer sacrifices.

It makes leveling up a less interesting part of gameplay.

[Elhanan]

For example, in Origins coercion requires 10 cunning. So you put points in cunning until you have 10, and then you pick coercion. The Inquisition version of this would be the coercion talent automatically gives you enough cunning points to reach 10.

If this is the case, it's the same result with fewer clicks.

Except apparently, a Rogue can no longer choose STR abilities; only those connected to DEX or CUN. A Mage is seemingly restricted to magic and Will, and a Warrior to STR, etc.

Losing options of customization does not appear to yield results that can be considered the same results.

[The Elder King]

Except apparently, a Rogue can no longer choose STR abilities; only those connected to DEX or CUN. A Mage is seemingly restricted to magic and Will, and a Warrior to STR, etc.Losing options of customization does not appear to yield results that can be considered the same results.

Are you talking about the passives?

[Lumix19]

Except apparently, a Rogue can no longer choose STR abilities; only those connected to DEX or CUN. A Mage is seemingly restricted to magic and Will, and a Warrior to STR, etc.

Losing options of customization does not appear to yield results that can be considered the same results.

 

Are you talking about the passives?

I don't think he/she is. The passives in the gameplay videos shown seem to boost other attributes like Willpower for Rogues and Constitution for Mages. I'm not sure what he/she's talking about

[aeoncs]

And requires less planning, and fewer sacrifices.

It makes leveling up a less interesting part of gameplay.

 

No offense, but for 90+% of players (and yes, I pulled that number out of my b*tt) the real excitement of leveling up stems from learning new skills/spells/abilities and equipping new armor, they don't give a damn about increasing attributes by clicking + two-three times.

Don't get me wrong, I still agree that not giving us the opportunity to allocate them ourselves makes absolutely no sense from a gameplay perspective, if you can use Auto-Level at the same time... it's just that as someone who prefers to spend them independently, I think some people are making a way bigger deal out of it than it really is.

 

Unconventional builds will still be possible, they just take more effort and planning this time around.

[Elhanan]

Are you talking about the passives?

Between the loss of Attribute allocation, Quick-slots, and weapon switching, and from the various examples viewed on the forums, it seems that I will be restricted to play a Rogue as DEX or CUN, or other typed class, and not the Rogue I wished to play only a few days ago. And if Varric gets to switch weapons in combat, me and Varric will have words.

Even if there are passives for WILL available to Warrior or Rogues, it is doubtful that there will be enough to gain a score of 30; my past goal in the prior series.

I am trying not to overreact and wait as I have advised others to do in other threads, but this straw was seemingly a bit too much for this older camel.

[Lumix19]

Between the loss of Attribute allocation, Quick-slots, and weapon switching, and from the various examples viewed on the forums, it seems that I will be restricted to play a Rogue as DEX or CUN, or other typed class, and not the Rogue I wished to play only a few days ago. And if Varric gets to switch weapons in combat, me and Varric will have words.

Even if there are passives for WILL available to Warrior or Rogues, it is doubtful that there will be enough to gain a score of 30; my past goal in the prior series.

I am trying not to overreact and wait as I have advised others to do in other threads, but this straw was seemingly a bit too much for this older camel.

This isn't like past games though, a score of 30 means nothing without understanding the context of DA:I's attribute system. I'm sure that by picking the right passives and using the right equipment you can raise attributes to the level required for your playstyle. Try not to fret too much.

[Keroko]

I'd design it so that the higher-level talents required more points to buy, thus forcing low-level characters to save up for them.

 

Hmm, that's an interesting idea, but in essence that's what's Inquisition's current system is. To get the highest tier talents, which are usually the fourth in the tree, you need to spend four points to get there.

[Elhanan]

No offense, but for 90+% of players (and yes, I pulled that number out of my b*tt) the real excitement of leveling up stems from learning new skills/spells/abilities and equipping new armor, they don't give a damn about increasing attributes by clicking + two-three times.
Don't get me wrong, I still agree that not giving us the opportunity to allocate them ourselves makes absolutely no sense from a gameplay perspective, if you can use Auto-Level at the same time... it's just that as someone who prefers to spend them independently, I think some people are making a way bigger deal out of it than it really is.
 
Unconventional builds will still be possible, they just take more effort and planning this time around.

No; unconventional builds like a DW Rogue wielding sword & axe are no longer possible, or a Hybrid Archer/ DW that can kill at range or in close melee, or a DW Warrior, Archer Warrior, etc. These past builds are apparently here no longer....

[Elhanan]

This isn't like past games though, a score of 30 means nothing without understanding the context of DA:I's attribute system. I'm sure that by picking the right passives and using the right equipment you can raise attributes to the level required for your playstyle. Try not to fret too much.

When I look at a 12th lvl Rogue Inquisitor without any bonus to Cunning, I tend to become a tad anxious; prefer to Disarm Traps by not stepping in them.

[KoorahUK]

Hmm, that's an interesting idea, but in essence that's what's Inquisition's current system is. To get the highest tier talents, which are usually the fourth in the tree, you need to spend four points to get there.

And you get the benefit of abilities you purchased to get there.

 

From a gameplay perspective (and this is just me) I can't think of anything less fun that autoattacking for 8 levels just so I can get a single capstone ability earlier than intended. 

Choice is imortant but fun is fun. 

*shrug*

[KoorahUK]

When I look at a 12th lvl Rogue Inquisitor without any bonus to Cunning, I tend to become a tad anxious; prefer to Disarm Traps by not stepping in them.

Yet Varric - a rogue skilled in traps - has a higher Cunning score. i can see logic behind the fact that Cunning in and of itself shouldn't really be enough to disarm traps. Some skill at Disarming Traps should allow you to Disarm a trap. Learning how to disarm traps increases your Cunning as you understand how the fiendish things operate. 

[Lumix19]

When I look at a 12th lvl Rogue Inquisitor without any bonus to Cunning, I tend to become a tad anxious; prefer to Disarm Traps by not stepping in them.

Fair. Though if, as a Rogue, you placed most of your ability points into passives granting something like Willpower and not passives boosting Cunning you really only have yourself to blame. You can't be good at everything.

 

Yet Varric - a rogue skilled in traps - has a higher Cunning score. i can see logic behind the fact that Cunning in and of itself shouldn't really be enough to disarm traps. Some skill at Disarming Traps should allow you to Disarm a trap. Learning how to disarm traps increases your Cunning as you understand how the fiendish things operate. 

Indeed. Is Disarming Traps even tied to Cunning?