3034 réponses à ce sujet

[azarhal]

My problem with this is that relying on the trees may mean it's a one-off bonus, and means I may be forced to put points into a tree I don't want just to get stat alterations that should be mine by right. Especially when it comes to Con, which governs health.

 

The tree bonuses are just another way of doing DAO stat requirements for talents, they provide between 1/2 to 1/3 of the attribute points you would get in the previous game. 4 passives per tree, you will be able to max about 2 of trees, that's only 8 levels worth of attribute points at level 24-25 (theoretical max level is somewhere between 25 and 30). In other word, gear should provide between 1/2 and 2/3 of your attribute points.

 

Also, we don't know what stats do in DAI, but going by some of the enchantments we might not need to increase a stat to increase some secondary stats like critical, ranged/melee/magical defense, stagger, armor penetration anymore.

[Elhanan]

@Muspade:  I'm not sure if that's directed at me... but I don't need points for my imagination.  I could play a game without stats.
 
I don't believe this is the "imagination" crowd - this is the number crunching crowd.  
 
Which is why I can imagine a game much bigger than:  "Hero with some numbers" - and realize that DA:I is an RPG about the leader of an organization... and his "stats" are going to be the least important thing about him/her.

"Believe what you will. Shut one's eyes tight or open one's arms wide; either way, one's a fool." - Flemeth

I do not consider myself as a 'Numbers' person; made the other builds for DAO and like ones for NWN1 to prove the typical ways were not the only ways, for myself. Others can play their solo games as they wish; simply asking for the same courtesy by leaving me the options to create my own builds.

And I was playing RPG's since '75, so this not being a part of the imagination crowd is rather inaccurate, if not arrogant. You are welcome to an informed opinion, but should also consider that one also has the option to remain silent.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Elhanan: Yes, you're old - congrats.  I played original Red Box too.  Also - blah blah blah... and blah... a whole bunch of games which doesn't really give me any more validation as to what RPing is over anyone else. 

 

However - being older myself - I also know that old people get set in their ways and hate change. 

 

To that - I say, too bad. 

 

I posted that if this were JUST a lament about missing 3 pts. I'd feel sorry that people can't have that added to the game (again, totally forgetting the million other things added to this game).  

 

But after 80 pages... it's just people trying to validate their claim as the "right way" of playing... which is total BS.

 

Stat allocation does not make a better game - it just makes a game the way you're used to (and prefer playing).

 

That's not this game.

[xkg]

@Star Fury:  Hey, believe what you want - you're the one that isn't getting your super important feature.  I'm the one who can adapt to whatever RPG game rules I encounter. 

 

So let me ask you this. You already have what you want - why did you came here to this thread ? To laugh at pepole asking for something ?

 

And I can adapt too, to, for example, living under the bridge, if I had to. Doesn't mean I would like that.

[Elhanan]

Actually, no. Assuming we're talking 3.5, by the rulebook you roll dice and the only choice you get is allocating which result gets assigned to which attribute.

Point buy was a homerule, the D&D equivalent of a mod. Though it was implemented in 4th edition.

The books are guides only, as every DM was allowed to utilize the rules they wished. And it is still pleasing to see that there are options.

A lot of the real meaty boosts in D&D come from the feats, too. Feats that give plus bonuses to attack and damage rolls, feats that let you hit multiple targets, feats that let you attack earlier, the list goes on and on. 

It seems to me then that your problem is let with attribute allocation and more the weapon limitations. Because aside from the class restrictions on weapons, your later reasons are still perfectly doable in the new system.

I prefer the 3E & 3.5 versions, as these lifted restrictions like my on rules. These changes were to increase choices and customization; not to further restrict them.

But I chose to voice my discontent in this matter as it is further eroding the value of choice. My Inquisitor may look vastly different, but the base designs will remain the same. And I cannot help think how much better it could be by allowing the Players the freedom to choose.

[xkg]

@xkg: Nice!  Troll reference because I disagree with you!  *high five*

 

No - I posted because after 80 pages of pt. buy fanatics declaring how a game is inferior if they don't get what they want... I decided to cry bs. 

If you REALLY just wanted to lament your loss... this thread would have died ages ago.  But instead - you'll sit around talking about how superior others games were and how Bioware is undermining your experience... etc. etc. 

 

Mister mindreader, listen. Not any troll reference, in that example I was talking about me being homeless.

[Salaya]

Given that the amount of options available in crafting have given stat allocations more options than ever before, I wonder how this is simplifying matters.
 

 

Yes, silly me. Now we have gear crafting but no direct allocation. In Origins/DA2 we had both. Clearly not simplified.

 

Also, looking for gear and craft material for adjusting attributes is clearly more complex than giving the direct control to the player in level up, along with gear options.

 

Using objects/crafting/inventory as the only source of attribute allocation is something the developers use for appealing the crowd; I may or may not like this, it's irrelevant. But trying to defend this particular change as something more complex when the devs themselves have said in various occasions that they are trying to appeal more players...
 

[Medhia_Nox]

@Salaya:  Are you willfully ignoring the hundreds of other customizable options (to the WORLD) this game gives you - or are you truly not aware of them?

This game is NOT just about your character... if you wanted a game JUST about your character, I'm sorry - but this is not that game.

[Elhanan]

@Elhanan: Yes, you're old - congrats.  I played original Red Box too.  Also - blah blah blah... and blah... a whole bunch of games which doesn't really give me any more validation as to what RPing is over anyone else. 
 
However - being older myself - I also know that old people get set in their ways and hate change. 
 
To that - I say, too bad. 
 
I posted that if this were JUST a lament about missing 3 pts. I'd feel sorry that people can't have that added to the game (again, totally forgetting the million other things added to this game).  
 
But after 80 pages... it's just people trying to validate their claim as the "right way" of playing... which is total BS.
 
Stat allocation does not make a better game - it just makes a game the way you're used to (and prefer playing).
 
That's not this game.

Yep; am old, and hopefully wiser to try and tell others how to play a solo game. And I started D&D well before box colors, polyhedral die, and crayons.

While I did not become a systems analyst, I did learn that people are resistant to change as a rule. A wise analyst did not force change on a client, but implemented changes by communicating with them and seeing what was best. In this venue, stating my criticism over the loss of options in a reasoned manner is my way of regaining said choices.

If you do not care to discuss, but to ridicule, the wiser choice may be to leave voluntarily.

[Paul E Dangerously]

@Salaya:  Are you willfully ignoring the hundreds of other customizable options (to the WORLD) this game gives you - or are you truly not aware of them?

This game is NOT just about your character... if you wanted a game JUST about your character, I'm sorry - but this is not that game.

 

You can change Skyhold's curtains! ..but weapons and armor are still limited, and you can't choose your own attributes.

[xkg]

^  Good one

[Muspade]

Changing curtains is atleast more entertaining than assigning attributes.

[Elhanan]

Changing curtains is atleast more entertaining than assigning attributes.

I wouldn't know; have used black garbage bags on my windows for almost 30 yrs. Working graveyard shifts offers simple solutions.

But I much rather select the prior options for manual Attributes than Auto-select; too bad that choice has been removed.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Paul E Dangerously:  Thank you for illustrating my point for me.

 

@Elhanan:  There is nothign to discuss.  Stat buy doesn't make a game superior - it makes a game you feel familiar with.  That is not this game - this game is about curtains.

[Muspade]

I wouldn't know; have used black garbage bags on my windows for almost 30 yrs. Working graveyard shifts offers simple solutions.

But I much rather select the prior options for manual Attributes than Auto-select; too bad that choice has been removed.

For the greater good of game balance, I imagine.

[Rawgrim]

@Salaya:  Are you willfully ignoring the hundreds of other customizable options (to the WORLD) this game gives you - or are you truly not aware of them?

This game is NOT just about your character... if you wanted a game JUST about your character, I'm sorry - but this is not that game.

 

Its an rpg (supposedly) not a Sims game...

[Medhia_Nox]

@Rawgrim:  And now you're going to tell me what an RPG is eh?

 

There are RPGs without stats my friend.  Maybe you have never had the privilege to play them - but they exist.

[azarhal]

Yes, silly me. Now we have gear crafting but no direct allocation. In Origins/DA2 we had both. Clearly not simplified.

 

There was gear crafting in DAO/DA2, that's news to me.

[Rawgrim]

@Rawgrim:  And now you're going to tell me what an RPG is eh?

 

There are RPGs without stats my friend.  Maybe you have never had the privilege to play them - but they exist.

 

I don't play JRPGs.

[Kleon]

Its an rpg (supposedly) not a Sims game...

 

Even in the Sims you get skill points for learning. You can even choose what your sim is learning. 

[Rawgrim]

Even in the Sims you get skill points for learning. You can even choose what your sim is learning. 

 

Good point. I forgot that.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Star Fury:  No, the point is this game isn't going to include point buy and anyone saying that makes it inferior is just stuck in their ways and protecting something they hold sacred.  

 

I'm sorry you didn't get your point buy - what I'm not sorry about is calling bs on anyone who thinks this game has less choices than DA:O or NWN.  It just doesn't have choices you want - like curtains. 

 

I prefer my roleplaying games to provide me with greater options to roleplay and story tell... not number crunch and dungeon crawl. 

[Rawgrim]

@Star Fury:  No, the point is this game isn't going to include point buy and anyone saying that makes it inferior is just stuck in their ways and protecting something they hold sacred.  

 

I'm sorry you didn't get your point buy - what I'm not sorry about is calling bs on anyone who thinks this game has less choices than DA:O or NWN.  It just doesn't have choices you want - like curtains. 

 

I prefer my roleplaying games to provide me with greater options to roleplay and story tell... not number crunch and dungeon crawl. 

 

So if they included an option for players to place their stats themselves, you would approve?

[Muspade]

So if they included an option for players to place their stats themselves, you would approve?

I wouldn't disapprove.

[Paul E Dangerously]

@Star Fury:  No, the point is this game isn't going to include point buy and anyone saying that makes it inferior is just stuck in their ways and protecting something they hold sacred.  

 

I'm sorry you didn't get your point buy - what I'm not sorry about is calling bs on anyone who thinks this game has less choices than DA:O or NWN.  It just doesn't have choices you want - like curtains. 

 

I prefer my roleplaying games to provide me with greater options to roleplay and story tell... not number crunch and dungeon crawl. 

 

It does have less choices than DAO. Even if you want to throw the attribute matter out of the argument, the weapon limitations alone ensure that it never comes close to DAO in terms of choice.