3034 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia_Nox]

@Rawgrim:  Thank you.  A lot of RPG fans however doesn't mean all - and if you don't care, it doesn't make you not an RPG fan. 

 

I am genuinely sorry you don't get your point buy, if I could somehow put it in for you I would - but as I said... I gladly ignored 87 pages of this thread, but if it were really just "Bummer" then it would have died.

 

When people start saying what RPG are supposed to be - I have a problem - and that's how this thread got so long. 

 

@Paul E Dangerously:  No, you just don't like the choices they implemented.  Like curtains... and while you were being snarky... the point is absolutely true.

 

You can mold the WORLD in DA:I... you could never ever really do that in DA:O. 

 

- You couldn't craft gear in DA:O

- You couldn't modify potions in the same manner that you can.

- You couldn't design a fortress - make judgements - send out an army of people to do your bidding.

 

Etc. etc. 

 

You clearly don't like any of that... and would prefer 3pts./lvl

[Rawgrim]

If they had removed the attribute points completely, I would have been fine with it. I just don't like it when the game places them for me to make sure I don't "make a mistake". I would rather screw up badly than have the devs hold my hand all through the game.

[Paul E Dangerously]

 

@Paul E Dangerously:  No, you just don't like the choices they implemented.  Like curtains... and while you were being snarky... the point is absolutely true.

 

You can mold the WORLD in DA:I... you could never ever really do that in DA:O. 

 

- You couldn't craft gear in DA:O

- You couldn't modify potions in the same manner that you can.

- You couldn't design a fortress - make judgements - send out an army of people to do your bidding.

 

Etc. etc. 

 

You clearly don't like any of that... and would prefer 3pts./lvl

 

You're really reaching. Half of that is PR, for starters. What they say, and what happens in actuality is two different things. In actuality, it's going to come down to the same linear choices you had in the other two games. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised here, but it isn't likely.

 

And just in terms of character development and builds, there's no way in blazing hell this touches DAO, much less NWN.

 

Make judgements? Order troops? Go play Awakening sometime.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Rawgrim: I actually get that.  You're not going to get me to tell you you're wrong about your personal preferences.

 

However - I will say, that Bioware didn't do it - so you'll still enjoy the game though right?  Even if this one thing is a bummer?

Or is it SO big to you that it actually ruins Dragon Age: Inquisition for you?  While that's you're choice to make - it's something I'd find mind boggling.

[Elhanan]

@Rawgrim:  Thank you.  A lot of RPG fans however doesn't mean all - and if you don't care, it doesn't make you not an RPG fan. 
 
I am genuinely sorry you don't get your point buy, if I could somehow put it in for you I would - but as I said... I gladly ignored 87 pages of this thread, but if it were really just "Bummer" then it would have died.
 
When people start saying what RPG are supposed to be - I have a problem - and that's how this thread got so long. 
 
@Paul E Dangerously:  No, you just don't like the choices they implemented.  Like curtains... and while you were being snarky... the point is absolutely true.
 
You can mold the WORLD in DA:I... you could never ever really do that in DA:O. 
 
- You couldn't craft gear in DA:O
- You couldn't modify potions in the same manner that you can.
- You couldn't design a fortress - make judgements - send out an army of people to do your bidding.
 
Etc. etc. 
 
You clearly don't like any of that... and would prefer 3pts./lvl

Traps, potions, poisons, grenades, runes and perhaps more were all available as Crafting in DAO and DA2.

[Rawgrim]

@Rawgrim: I actually get that.  You're not going to get me to tell you you're wrong about your personal preferences.

 

However - I will say, that Bioware didn't do it - so you'll still enjoy the game though right?  Even if this one thing is a bummer?

Or is it SO big to you that it actually ruins Dragon Age: Inquisition for you?  While that's you're choice to make - it's something I'd find mind boggling.

 

I have never ever said it will ruin the game for me. No clue where you are getting that from. Exploration, the castle, and the characters look great. The story will be good too, I hope. But the combat and the level up looks rotten. DA2 combat had the awesome button, this one has 8 awesome buttons, it seems.

 

Exploration is my main drive in this game. Looks damn cool.

[Salaya]

There was gear crafting in DAO/DA2, that's news to me.

 

More news: The archdemon was in fact a reaper disguised. It was him who granted craft arts to Thedas.

 

But stupid jokes aside; yes, there was gear crafting in DA:O and DA2. Both games had rune systems for both weapons and armor (at least awakening had this). Also, you could find materials like dragon scales, dragon eggs, ironbark, silverite, drake scales, etc for crafting armors and weapons.

 

But hey, it seems crafting was so cool that it seems point allocation must be completely erased from existence

[Medhia_Nox]

@Elhanan:  So in DA:O or DA:2 I could craft the hilt and blade of my sword?  Or add different leg and arm pieces to a chestplate?  

 

In DA:O or DA:2 I could modify a standard potion to be able to do something better? 

In DA:O or DA:2 I could craft helms, shields, armor, swords, daggers, bows, staves along with all my expendables?

 

C'mon - you're not being serious with this right?  

 

For me - this adds to roleplay FAR more than +3/lvl number crunching.

[Rawgrim]

You could get Wade to craft weapons and armors for you. Not sure if you could in DA2.

[Paul E Dangerously]

@Elhanan:  So in DA:O or DA:2 I could craft the hilt and blade of my sword?  Or add different leg and arm pieces to a chestplate?  

 

Yes, you could. Oddly enough, you had leg and gauntlet slots.

[Elhanan]

@Elhanan:  So in DA:O or DA:2 I could craft the hilt and blade of my sword?  Or add different leg and arm pieces to a chestplate?  
 
In DA:O or DA:2 I could modify a standard potion to be able to do something better? 

In DA:O or DA:2 I could craft helms, shields, armor, swords, daggers, bows, staves along with all my expendables?
 
C'mon - you're not being serious with this right?  
 
For me - this adds to roleplay FAR more than +3/lvl number crunching.

I could, but then, I can use my imagination for RP....

Edit: And one could use Warden's Keep for upgrades and smithing, place varied armor sections, etc; even use expenadbles to support your allied armies. Plus, one also got the option to manually place Attributes, too.

Why so serious?

[Muspade]

You could get Wade to craft weapons and armors for you. Not sure if you could in DA2.

Don't think there was any weapon crafting in DA2 either. Hawke was a scavenger 24/7.

[Star fury]

@Elhanan:  So in DA:O or DA:2 I could craft the hilt and blade of my sword?  Or add different leg and arm pieces to a chestplate?  

 

In DA:O or DA:2 I could modify a standard potion to be able to do something better? 

In DA:O or DA:2 I could craft helms, shields, armor, swords, daggers, bows, staves along with all my expendables?

 

C'mon - you're not being serious with this right?  

 

A blatant example of moving the goalposts.

 

[Medhia_Nox]

@Elhanan:  Oh, absolutely!  You think you're going to get me to say that this is necessary for roleplaying?  Nope - just that I like it better than some numbers.  

 

I can roleplay without any rules - congrats me, big deal - you're not going to get me to tell you how to play.  

 

As I said - I'm just going to call bs when someone starts saying what they've removed diminishing the game *period*.. not "This is something I'll miss." but "This is something that makes this game worse than DA:O"  - that's false. 

[Kleon]

@Rawgrim:  Thank you.  A lot of RPG fans however doesn't mean all - and if you don't care, it doesn't make you not an RPG fan. 

 

I am genuinely sorry you don't get your point buy, if I could somehow put it in for you I would - but as I said... I gladly ignored 87 pages of this thread, but if it were really just "Bummer" then it would have died.

 

When people start saying what RPG are supposed to be - I have a problem - and that's how this thread got so long. 

 

@Paul E Dangerously:  No, you just don't like the choices they implemented.  Like curtains... and while you were being snarky... the point is absolutely true.

 

You can mold the WORLD in DA:I... you could never ever really do that in DA:O. 

 

- You couldn't craft gear in DA:O

- You couldn't modify potions in the same manner that you can.

- You couldn't design a fortress - make judgements - send out an army of people to do your bidding.

 

Etc. etc. 

 

You clearly don't like any of that... and would prefer 3pts./lvl

 

Soooooo..... Allocating points is so very Resources^TM heavy that they had to remove it for the choice of curtains?

 

Or maybe it is so very gamebreaking that it makes some builds so op that they melt faces in PvP? 

 

Allocating points is a simple thing that allows players to shape the direction their character is taking, then using gear to further customize their character. Without allocating points you got only crafting. Meaning that many people will be forced to spend time crafting if they want a specific character., but also THEY ARE LIMITED BY THE NUMBER OF SLOTS IN CRAFTING. 

[Medhia_Nox]

@Kleon:  You must have missed my posts to Rawgrim.  I'm totally for you having point buy - but Bioware didn't put it in.  That's pretty much end of the story.  If you're wondering why I'm bothering posting - you must have missed that explanation too. 

 

Also - you're limited to +3 pts/lvl... I'm not sure what you're getting at there.  There's always limitation. 

[azarhal]

More news: The archdemon was in fact a reaper disguised. It was him who granted craft arts to Thedas.

 

But stupid jokes aside; yes, there was gear crafting in DA:O and DA2. Both games had rune systems for both weapons and armor (at least awakening had this). Also, you could find materials like dragon scales, dragon eggs, ironbark, silverite, drake scales, etc for crafting armors and weapons.

 

But hey, it seems crafting was so cool that it seems point allocation must be completely erased from existence

 

Runes is enchanting (Enchantments!). Wade rewarding pre-designed stuff in exchange for money and/or specific material is not crafting. It was basically quest rewards.

[Salaya]

Runes is enchanting (Enchantments!). Wade rewarding pre-designed stuff in exchange for money and/or specific material is not crafting. It was basically quest rewards.

 

Cool! Semantics (Semanticments!).

 

DA:I has no crafting: it' s a combination of key items that give armor new properties. It's basically magic energization.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Salaya: You're really the one playing semantics with this one. 

 

Yes, he crafts you armor... but a small handful of items doesn't compare to what's available in DA:I.

But whatever it take to support your claim I suppose.

[SphereofSilence]

From the days of Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter, I always liked the 6 attributes that characters get to allocate to as they level up. It's not always extremely clear cut as to what attribute to put in, because while there are 'class' attributes such as Strength on Warrior, Agility on Rogue, Magic on Mage, etc, etc other stats can benefit as well in other ways - which allow really atypical builds. It comes down to whether there are enough atypical builds that are equally or more viable and provides unique playstyles. And they do provide those in those games. 

In Origins, I think there's somewhat of this to a certain extent. In DA2, I thought there were a lot fewer still - to me, it was always a no brainer as to what attribute to allocate - just go for 'class' attributes because they are too beneficial for the classes it was meant for - though admittedly I could be wrong as some people may have found lots of unique playstyles based on atypical builds.

 

From a 'simplification' so as to appeal to larger player base perspective, I think it might be a very good move. From more hard core player perspective, it comes down whether the items and the skill trees in this game provide enough atypical, unique and viable playstyles. So I reserve judgement until I complete the game and look up the net for builds. 

[Keroko]

I prefer the 3E & 3.5 versions, as these lifted restrictions like my on rules. These changes were to increase choices and customization; not to further restrict them.

But I chose to voice my discontent in this matter as it is further eroding the value of choice. My Inquisitor may look vastly different, but the base designs will remain the same. And I cannot help think how much better it could be by allowing the Players the freedom to choose.

Hmm, I don't know. To me, it always seemed as if one of the reasons the mage was -heck, still is- more popular was because it plays so radically different. Warriors and rogues were alike in many ways (in fact, two of their trees were exactly the same) but the mage was a completely different gameplay experience top to bottom.
 

Yes, silly me. Now we have gear crafting but no direct allocation. In Origins/DA2 we had both. Clearly not simplified.

Also, looking for gear and craft material for adjusting attributes is clearly more complex than giving the direct control to the player in level up, along with gear options.

Using objects/crafting/inventory as the only source of attribute allocation is something the developers use for appealing the crowd; I may or may not like this, it's irrelevant. But trying to defend this particular change as something more complex when the devs themselves have said in various occasions that they are trying to appeal more players...

But it is. Stat allocation in DA:O was limited to your primary attributes. In Inquisition, you can customize not only your primary attributes, but a whole slew of additional effects as well. Crit-chance, stagger chance, poison duration, extra damage versus barriers, all these kinds of stats can be tweaked down to your minmaxing needs in a far more detailed fashion than Origins ever did.

[PhroXenGold]

From the days of Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter, I always liked the 6 attributes that characters get to allocate to as they level up. It's not always extremely clear cut as to what attribute to put in, because while there are 'class' attributes such as Strength on Warrior, Agility on Rogue, Magic on Mage, etc, etc other stats can benefit as well in other ways - which allow really atypical builds. It comes down to whether there are enough atypical builds that are equally or more viable and provides unique playstyles. And they do provide those in those games. 

In Origins, I think there's somewhat of this to a certain extent. In DA2, I thought there were a lot fewer still - to me, it was always a no brainer as to what attribute to allocate - just go for 'class' attributes because they are too beneficial for the classes it was meant for - though admittedly I could be wrong as some people may have found lots of unique playstyles based on atypical builds.

 

From a 'simplification' so as to appeal to larger player base perspective, I think it might be a very good move. From more hard core player perspective, it comes down whether the items and the skill trees in this game provide enough atypical, unique and viable playstyles. So I reserve judgement until I complete the game and look up the net for builds. 

 

It's interesting you mention Baldur's Gate, as there was no way to distribute stats on levelling up in those games. Back in 2eAD&D you were stuck with your starting stats unless you found magical means of raising them (e.g. the tomes)...

[Medhia_Nox]

@PhroXenGold:  Blasphemy - gear isn't part of your character.  Balder's Gate is a horrible game.

[Elhanan]

...

But it is. Stat allocation in DA:O was limited to your primary attributes. In Inquisition, you can customize not only your primary attributes, but a whole slew of additional effects as well. Crit-chance, stagger chance, poison duration, extra damage versus barriers, all these kinds of stats can be tweaked down to your minmaxing needs in a far more detailed fashion than Origins ever did.

DAO also had item enhancements to Attributes, and one could choose as to which ones to wear. While items are now more customizable, the base design - the Attributes that cannot be lost or stolen - are locked in by the game. I prefer the previous options, as well as the improved item selections.

And before someone mentions balance again, allowing Players to select choices that are outside the typical selections appears to restrict overpowered characters, and increase the challenges. If the Player so chooses to do so in a solo game, no harm seemingly is done.

[Keroko]

DAO also had item enhancements to Attributes, and one could choose as to which ones to wear. While items are now more customizable, the base design - the Attributes that cannot be lost or stolen - are locked in by the game. I prefer the previous options, as well as the improved item selections.

In Origins the stats assigned to gear were unchangable, which means that if you wanted to look good or have the best stats, you often had to make a choice between the two unless you were lucky and the gear you liked came with the stats you wanted. Compared to crafting in Inquisition, where every new item you craft is a blank slate, I don't see how Origins is the one with the improved item selection here.
 

And before someone mentions balance again, allowing Players to select choices that are outside the typical selections appears to restrict overpowered characters, and increase the challenges. If the Player so chooses to do so in a solo game, no harm seemingly is done.

I object to this line of thinking. Going through with this to the extreme ends up with things like one or two abilities that kill everything without anything else in the game mattering. If a game cannot be difficult while the player puts all his effort into the game, the game has failed in its difficulty level. Players should not have to restrict themselves from using what the game provides and create artificial difficulties in order to have a challenging game. That's what difficulty levels are for.

Mind, this issue goes for everything in the game, not just attribute allocation.