3034 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

In Origins the stats assigned to gear were unchangable, which means that if you wanted to look good or have the best stats, you often had to make a choice between the two unless you were lucky and the gear you liked came with the stats you wanted. Compared to crafting in Inquisition, where every new item you craft is a blank slate, I don't see how Origins is the one with the improved item selection here.

Never said it was better, but that it did have one. I simply cannot fathom why one was improved, and the other abandoned.
 

I object to this line of thinking. Going through with this to the extreme ends up with things like one or two abilities that kill everything without anything else in the game mattering. If a game cannot be difficult while the player puts all his effort into the game, the game has failed in its difficulty level. Players should not have to restrict themselves from using what the game provides and create artificial difficulties in order to have a challenging game. That's what difficulty levels are for.

Mind, this issue goes for everything in the game, not just attribute allocation.

Perhaps I misstated my point. Personally, I am against one or two Attributes dominating the Class chosen; a reason why I enjoy my Rogue variants so much. I was informed by others that to do so would be less than optimal at best; a failure at worst. Yet I and others have proved this line of thought as invalid.

I did not do this to increase the Difficulty; was simply tired of Grabs, Overwhelms, and like special attacks creating havoc. By adding armor, much of the frustration was removed; a good thing, IMO. Same kind of thing when I increased WILL for Warriors, as I seemed to increase the Stamina needed for attacks rather than simply rely upon Talents. Again, this idea was mocked, but others trying it supported my findings, and helped persuade others that one did not only have to sink all pts into STR and sometimes CON.

With the current system, such variants will likely not be supported. I prefer options.

[SphereofSilence]

It's interesting you mention Baldur's Gate, as there was no way to distribute stats on levelling up in those games. Back in 2eAD&D you were stuck with your starting stats unless you found magical means of raising them (e.g. the tomes)...

Hah, well I only played BG2, not BG, assumed they had allocatable stats.

[AlanC9]

Hah, well I only played BG2, not BG, assumed they had allocatable stats.

They're allocatable in BG, but only at character creation, not levelup.

The thread title here's a bit misleading, since the issue isn't whether you can allocate points at levelup, it's whether you can allocate them at all.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Not getting stat increases at level-up is a good thing.

Not being able to allocate them at character creation is terrible.

[PhroXenGold]

Hah, well I only played BG2, not BG, assumed they had allocatable stats.

 

BG2 didn't give you stats on level up either...

[AlanC9]

Not being able to allocate them at character creation is terrible.

A bit too much inspiration from Skyrim, maybe?

[EnduinRaylene]

Not getting stat increases at level-up is a good thing.

Not being able to allocate them at character creation is terrible.

 

Does the possibility of everyone's stats being the same(10 across the board), rather than adjusted for their class, make this better or worse to you?

[azarhal]

A bit too much inspiration from Skyrim, maybe?

 

You didn't assign attributes at character creation in DA2 and that released months before Skyrim.

[Keroko]

Never said it was better, but that it did have one. I simply cannot fathom why one was improved, and the other abandoned.

 
Ahh, I see. I misunderstood.

In my opinion? Streamlining. With gear customization and manual attribute points, you've got essentially two systems doing the same thing. Removing one streamlines the process, and given the choice between the old system or the new system you're promoting as one of the game's special features the choice is a simple one.
 

Perhaps I misstated my point. Personally, I am against one or two Attributes dominating the Class chosen; a reason why I enjoy my Rogue variants so much. I was informed by others that to do so would be less than optimal at best; a failure at worst. Yet I and others have proved this line of thought as invalid.

I did not do this to increase the Difficulty; was simply tired of Grabs, Overwhelms, and like special attacks creating havoc. By adding armor, much of the frustration was removed; a good thing, IMO. Same kind of thing when I increased WILL for Warriors, as I seemed to increase the Stamina needed for attacks rather than simply rely upon Talents. Again, this idea was mocked, but others trying it supported my findings, and helped persuade others that one did not only have to sink all pts into STR and sometimes CON.

With the current system, such variants will likely not be supported. I prefer options.

One or two attributes dominating a class assumes that the points given on levelup will make up the majority of our points, but given the stats on gear, I doubt that.

.... actually, speaking of which, how many do we get per level anyway? The level 12 Varric in the page 1 screenshot has 25 dex and 25 cunning. With base stats 10, that's 30 points. For 12 levels. And a portion of that is going to come from his passives and gear, too.

[EnduinRaylene]

 
Ahh, I see. I misunderstood.

In my opinion? Streamlining. With gear customization and manual attribute points, you've got essentially two systems doing the same thing. Removing one streamlines the process, and given the choice between the old system or the new system you're promoting as one of the game's special features the choice is a simple one.
 

One or two attributes dominating a class assumes that the points given on levelup will make up the majority of our points, but given the stats on gear, I doubt that.

.... actually, speaking of which, how many do we get per level anyway? The level 12 Varric in the page 1 screenshot has 25 dex and 25 cunning. With base stats 10, that's 30 points. For 12 levels. And a portion of that is going to come from his passives and gear, too.

That's why I posted those screens. I honestly don't see how with those numbers and spread how there is any kind of stat increases at level up along with the other means. Those screens and the stats shown make way more sense if they were only increased by gear and passives alone.

[Keroko]

So... half of our debates in this thread may have been about nothing?

[EnduinRaylene]

So... half of our debates in this thread may have been about nothing?

Pretty much, not that any seems to care.

[Elhanan]

Ahh, I see. I misunderstood.

In my opinion? Streamlining. With gear customization and manual attribute points, you've got essentially two systems doing the same thing. Removing one streamlines the process, and given the choice between the old system or the new system you're promoting as one of the game's special features the choice is a simple one.
 

One or two attributes dominating a class assumes that the points given on levelup will make up the majority of our points, but given the stats on gear, I doubt that.

.... actually, speaking of which, how many do we get per level anyway? The level 12 Varric in the page 1 screenshot has 25 dex and 25 cunning. With base stats 10, that's 30 points. For 12 levels. And a portion of that is going to come from his passives and gear, too.

I am guessing that there are some Class bonuses for 1st Lvl, and we cannot see WILL or CON scores, so possibly 3/lvl.

P.S. Varric is also a NPC, so the Inquisitor may be different.

[EnduinRaylene]

I am guessing that there are some Class bonuses for 1st Lvl, and we cannot see WILL or CON scores, so possibly 3/lvl.

What about the Inquisitor? He too is a Rogue like Varric yet he has no points in Cunning, only in DEX. Even if companions had different stat growths, not that would make sense since they are no longer locked to ranged or melee like in DA2, you would think by level 12 the Inquisitor Rogue would have at least a couple points in Cunning since it's the second most important stat for a Rogue after DEX.

 

Then there's Solas, only 19 points in Magic? Sure he could have Willpower as the main stat, not that that makes sense, but even then Magic should still be higher.

[Ryzaki]

Do we even have confirmation that you can craft warrior gear with cunning stats?

 

Because I wouldn't be surprised if the runes defaulted to mainstat+constitution increases and it changed depending on class or the weapon you were putting it in.

[Keroko]

I am guessing that there are some Class bonuses for 1st Lvl, and we cannot see WILL or CON scores, so possibly 3/lvl.

To get that in any reasonable margin with gear and passives, we'd need another 30 something points. I highly doubt we're getting 3 a level. If we're even getting anything at all, which I am growing increasingly less certain off.

[Salaya]

But it is. Stat allocation in DA:O was limited to your primary attributes. In Inquisition, you can customize not only your primary attributes, but a whole slew of additional effects as well. Crit-chance, stagger chance, poison duration, extra damage versus barriers, all these kinds of stats can be tweaked down to your minmaxing needs in a far more detailed fashion than Origins ever did.

 

But you don't have direct control over this attributes. Those are completely gear dependent. What is worse, the kind of things crafting does were also possible to some extent with rune crafting before. We had crafting. We had point allocation. We no longer have one of those; and the way they tried to alleviate this loss turns the system in an indirect gameplay mechanic.

 

If your point is that there are more elements in play when customizing gear, yeah, I have nothing to say to that. Probably is the case, never doubted that. What I doubt is the customization value and complexity of the system. If the only source for stat allocation is gear, implying an indirect control over them, you end up with a system less complex (the interaction between player and stat allocation is less intimidating, less difficult and  yes, less complex; no definitive errors are possible, no direct flexibility since stats depend on luck drops and exploration).

 

So? We come again to the same point as always: you don't have direct control over your attributes, the relation between player and this element is indirect. But yes, you have crafting, and this crafting is more complex than before. But is only crafting, and is depenent of items and gear.

 

And, again, from a different angle: if you were right, and BW devs were adding more complex systems to DA, why would they claim they were trying to make the saga more appealing to the public? Accept the system for what it is, a middle ground between the complexity of DA Origins and the Diablo/FPS/Action games crowd.

[azarhal]

Do we even have confirmation that you can craft warrior gear with cunning stats?

 

Because I wouldn't be surprised if the runes defaulted to mainstat+constitution increases and it changed depending on class or the weapon you were putting it in.

 

We have screenshot showing that you can craft rogue armor with strength, constitution and cunning on it. I don't see why warrior would be different.

[Icy Magebane]

You still have choice, the game won't pick your gear and its stats for you. You now have more customizable power over your gear than ever before. You pick it. As I say farther down the post it is now executed differently is all.

P.s. Not noticing a feature isn't entirely a player's fault. It is also the design team's fault in part too for not making it more noticeable.

No, it is the player's fault actually.  They couldn't have made auto-leveling any more obvious without forcing us all through a mandatory level up tutorial.

[Keroko]

But you don't have direct control over this attributes. Those are completely gear dependent. What is worse, the kind of things crafting does were also possible to some extent with rune crafting before. We had crafting. We had point allocation. We no longer have one of those; and the way they tried to alleviate this loss turns the system in an indirect gameplay mechanic.
 
If your point is that there are more elements in play when customizing gear, yeah, I have nothing to say to that. Probably is the case, never doubted that. What I doubt is the customization value and complexity of the system. If the only source for stat allocation is gear, implying an indirect control over them, you end up with a system less complex (the interaction between player and stat allocation is less intimidating, less difficult and  yes, less complex; no definitive errors are possible, no direct flexibility since stats depend on luck drops and exploration).
 
So? We come again to the same point as always: you don't have direct control over your attributes, the relation between player and this element is indirect. But yes, you have crafting, and this crafting is more complex than before. But is only crafting, and is depenent of items and gear.
 
And, again, from a different angle: if you were right, and BW devs were adding more complex systems to DA, why would they claim they were trying to make the saga more appealing to the public? Accept the system for what it is, a middle ground between the complexity of DA Origins and the Diablo/FPS/Action games crowd.

I fail to see how having direct control over which stat goes on which piece of equipment means you have less control over your stats.

Do we even have confirmation that you can craft warrior gear with cunning stats?

Can't confirm cunning directly, but given that we can craft two-handed axes with magic? Yes.

[Kleon]

@Kleon:  You must have missed my posts to Rawgrim.  I'm totally for you having point buy - but Bioware didn't put it in.  That's pretty much end of the story.  If you're wondering why I'm bothering posting - you must have missed that explanation too. 

 

Also - you're limited to +3 pts/lvl... I'm not sure what you're getting at there.  There's always limitation. 

 

In times of DA2 you could have said that because BioWare decided to use one cave, otherwise known as The Cave^TM, "that's pretty much end of the story".

  

[Ryzaki]

We have screenshot showing that you can craft rogue armor with strength, constitution and cunning on it. I don't see why warrior would be different.

 

Can't confirm cunning directly, but given that we can craft two-handed axes with magic? Yes.

 

 

Oh good.

Sweet thanks.

 

[Medhia_Nox]

But gear isn't my character!  Gosh... don't you people realize that I've never played a game where items were essential to my character!

 

I played DA:O with "Nobles Clothes" and "Longsword!" because my character was so deeply nuanced.

 

This game is an affront to real roleplaying.

[Muspade]

Time to cool down, Medhia.

[Medhia_Nox]

Noted