3034 réponses à ce sujet

[Applepie_Svk]

Well I don´t like this change, but if you´ll be able enough randomize your stats thru gear then it won´t be problem much...

[Palidane]

So I'm trying to follow this thread, and getting pretty confused. What do we actually know so far? No manual allocation of attributes at all, only through gear?

[EnduinRaylene]

So I'm trying to follow this thread, and getting pretty confused. What do we actually know so far? No manual allocation of attributes at all, only through gear?

Definite increases in stats via most Passive Abilities and Gear. Possible auto increases at level up, but it's very unclear right now if that's the case. Screens we've seen don't really support it. Let alone how it works if it is in place, ie points per level, distribution among the attributes based on class or character, etc.

[Keroko]

So I'm trying to follow this thread, and getting pretty confused. What do we actually know so far? No manual allocation of attributes at all, only through gear?

What we know:

• The old mechanic of getting a bunch of attribute points on character creation and 3 attribute points per levelup to spend as you please is gone.
• Attributes are increased via unlocking passive abilities and gear.
• Through crafting, gear can be customized with whatever stat you please. Providing you have the resources.

What we aren't sure about:

• Do we still get attribute points on level up?
• If so, where do they go?

[Rawgrim]

 

What we know:

• The old mechanic of getting a bunch of attribute points on character creation and 3 attribute points per levelup to spend as you please is gone.
• Attributes are increased via unlocking passive abilities and gear.
• Through crafting, gear can be customized with whatever stat you please. Providing you have the resources.

What we aren't sure about:

• Do we still get attribute points on level up?
• If so, where do they go?

 

 

We get attribute points on level up. The game just places them for us, and we have no say in the matter. It is to make sure we don't make mistakes when leveling up.

[EnduinRaylene]

We get attribute points on level up. The game just places them for us, and we have no say in the matter. It is to make sure we don't make mistakes when leveling up.

We don't know that for sure. Mike's tweet is all we have that points to and even then it's not at all definitive. The evidence we do have from demos does little to support the idea that the game auto assigns stat points at level up.

[KoorahUK]

We don't know that for sure. Mike's tweet is all we have that points to and even then it's not at all definitive. The evidence we do have from demos does little to support the idea that the game auto assigns stat points at level up.

I'd have to agree with this. Passives and gear confirmed. Auto level on attributes likely but not confirmed.

[KoorahUK]

Stupid phone

[azarhal]

I'd have to agree with this. Passives and gear confirmed. Auto level on attributes likely but not confirmed.

 

I'll personally go with unlikely. There is no way Solas only has 19 Magic at level 12 with an auto-level system, but that's what the screenshot is showing.

[Morroian]

I'll personally go with unlikely. There is no way Solas only has 19 Magic at level 12 with an auto-level system, but that's what the screenshot is showing.

 

Well if its unlikely then the tweet was wrong or being misinterpreted but none of the devs have clarified that we're wrong.

[Keroko]

Well if its unlikely then the tweet was wrong or being misinterpreted but none of the devs have clarified that we're wrong.

 

Misinterpreted, I think. "They grow as you level, buy talents, and, notably, equip gear" could be read as "they grow as you level and proceed to buy talents and, notably, equip gear."

 

Otherwise... yeah, 19 magic Solas. Even if the computer spreads the stats between magic, willpower and constitution equally, 3 points a level would still have put him on 21 at the lowest.

[Salaya]

I fail to see how having direct control over which stat goes on which piece of equipment means you have less control over your stats.
 

 

Stat allocation depends on equipment. Equipment is acquired by indirect methods, like exploration-->crafting or random drops. You don't have direct control over your stats. You have less control over your stats. 

 

Maybe you need healing magic to cure your eyes? 

[Keroko]

Stat allocation depends on equipment. Equipment is acquired by indirect methods, like exploration-->crafting or random drops. You don't have direct control over your stats. You have less control over your stats. 

 

Maybe you need healing magic to cure your eyes? 

 

And stat allocation in Origins depended on your level. The experience needed to increase your level is acquired by indirect methods such as exploring, completing quests or killing random mobs.

 

Yes, crafting means you have to go out in the world and gather resources. I don't see how this is less direct than having to go out in the world to gather XP. In both cases you're gathering a 'resource' (materials for crafting, XP for leveling) in order to raise your attributes.

[KoorahUK]

Misinterpreted, I think. "They grow as you level, buy talents, and, notably, equip gear" could be read as "they grow as you level and proceed to buy talents and, notably, equip gear."

 

Otherwise... yeah, 19 magic Solas. Even if the computer spreads the stats between magic, willpower and constitution equally, 3 points a level would still have put him on 21 at the lowest.

 

I'll personally go with unlikely. There is no way Solas only has 19 Magic at level 12 with an auto-level system, but that's what the screenshot is showing.

Yes its an interesting one this. Personally I'd prefer it if we didn't have attribute points allocated for us and just did it through gear and abilities, but I'm not sure we can use this screen shot of evidence this is the case. It could be that they've adopted a slower progression rate for new attribute points. Points every 4 levels for instance, or 1 point per level alternated between primary attributes. 

 

Considering the scale of changes to the attribute mechanics, I'm not sure we can assume any attribute allocation at level up would still be 3 points per level.

[xkg]

And stat allocation in Origins depended on your level. The experience needed to increase your level is acquired by indirect methods such as exploring, completing quests or killing random mobs.

 

Yes, crafting means you have to go out in the world and gather resources. I don't see how this is less direct than having to go out in the world to gather XP. In both cases you're gathering a 'resource' (materials for crafting, XP for leveling) in order to raise your attributes.

 

 

That's very very simple. Count the steps :

 

1) Gather exp to ... 2) Raise your attributes

1) Gather resources to ... 2) Craft your gear to ... 3) Raise your attributes

[Keroko]

Considering the scale of changes to the attribute mechanics, I'm not sure we can assume any attribute allocation at level up would still be 3 points per level.

 

That at least seems pretty much confirmed now.

 

 

That's very very simple. Count the steps :

 

1) Gather exp to ... 2) Raise your attributes

1) Gather resources to ... 2) Craft your gear to ... 3) Raise your attributes

 

Touché. Though somehow I don't think that's what Salaya means by direct control.

[Salaya]

And stat allocation in Origins depended on your level. The experience needed to increase your level is acquired by indirect methods such as exploring, completing quests or killing random mobs.

 

Yes, crafting means you have to go out in the world and gather resources. I don't see how this is less direct than having to go out in the world to gather XP. In both cases you're gathering a 'resource' (materials for crafting, XP for leveling) in order to raise your attributes.

 

A - You gain experience, you level up. You decide how to spend your points. You gain equipment in the process.

 

B - You gain experience, you level up. You can't choose your points. You gain equipment in the process. You gain crafting materials in the process. You use your crafting skills (or the inquisition ones) to craft equipment. That equipment may or may be not done with the gained items. Yoy may want to raise a particular stat but you may or may not lack the crafting materials. You may or may not be able to raise a particular stat.

 

The control over your stats in the first case is direct, and more complex, since it may lead to bad decisions. The second one is indirect and less complex, since its not connected directly to the player decisions.

[KoorahUK]

That at least seems pretty much confirmed now.

 

Sorry if I'm being dense Keroko, do you mean that 3 attribute points per level has been confirmed? If so I missed it.

[Keroko]

Sorry if I'm being dense Keroko, do you mean that 3 attribute points per level has been confirmed? If so I missed it.

 

Apologies, I meant that it's all but confirmed we're not getting 3 points a level. A level 12 mage with 19 in magic makes little sense if we did.

 

If levelling still awards freebie points, it's less than in the last games.

 

 

A - You gain experience, you level up. You decide how to spend your points. You gain equipment in the process.

 

B - You gain experience, you level up. You can't choose your points. You gain equipment in the process. You gain crafting materials in the process. You use your crafting skills (or the inquisition ones) to craft equipment. That equipment may or may be not done with the gained items. Yoy may want to raise a particular stat but you may or may not lack the crafting materials. You may or may not be able to raise a particular stat.

 

The control over your stats in the first case is direct, and more complex, since it may lead to bad decisions. The second one is indirect and less complex, since its not connected directly to the player decisions.

 

Ah, so its the necessity to seek the proper materials to raise the stats you wish which you find less direct. Well, yes. I will admit I was wrong on that part, that is a less direct method than just clicking the points to increase on a ding. But I don't see that as a bad thing.

 

The need to gather resources encourages thinking in advance. Do you want to put that constitution bonus on Varric's new shirt? Or Cassandra's new helmet? Cassandra's your tank, but on the other hand Varric has been on the brink of death a lot... or maybe you should head out and find some more resources so you can upgrade both?

 

This way, levelling is a far more involved process. You're actually going out in the field and work to increase a particular stat, rather than just grab a global pile of experience.

 

Also it's interesting that you describe a more complex method with B, yet claim A to be more complex. Both A and B can lead to bad decisions, but the difference is where A you potentially lose hours of gameplay by being forced to reload and old save (the only way to fix screwing up your stats in Origins) in B such a mistake can be recovered from. Which is a good thing. Mistakes are only useful if you learn from them. You still pay a price in B through the loss of resources, but you're not bound to it. Which in turn opens the ground to experiment. Maybe a bit more strength on your next set of daggers? Or perhaps some more stamina for longer combo's? You can experiment without having to reload and replay all the time.

 

A isn't more complex, it just discourages experimentation.

[Elhanan]

As with ME, I tend to Save before Lvl Up in case of errors. And in games of great lengths of time, I have made hard Saves before each Lvl Up to aid in any desired reloads.

[Lumix19]

Anyone else feel like this thread is going round and round in circles?

[Medhia_Nox]

@Lumix19:  Of course it is, especially less than 4 weeks before release. 

[KoorahUK]

As with ME, I tend to Save before Lvl Up in case of errors. And in games of great lengths of time, I have made hard Saves before each Lvl Up to aid in any desired reloads.

As most of us do. It doesn't change the fact that if you find your point allocation is not working out - which lets be honest you can't really know until you've played with the build you've made, you have to reload your earlier save redistribute points and replay a certain amount of content. 

 

Its somewhat easier to say "no, that Tank Mage build isn't working, I'll change my mages STR/CON robes back for the MAG/WILL ones" and carry on.

 

[Medhia_Nox]

Are there really people who have managed to actually make builds that were impossible to play with?

I've actually never "un-built" a character - even if I have restarted some games simply because I didn't understand how a mechanic worked.  

 

Isn't all this very intuitive for anyone not just starting out?  And if you're just starting out playing RPG... wouldn't auto-level help?  

 

I just seriously don't get anyone who wants to make a Rogue with a high Magic score - or a mage that maxes Cunning.  

 

As for "roleplaying" - the mechanics are absolutely in DA:I and they're not tied to just a stat but your organization.

[Wulfsten]

Personally, I strongly hope that you can assign points to attributes as part of levelling up. I think one of the best things about RPGs is the "experience" of levelling up, where you make choices about how to improve your character. I think DA:O and DA2 had the right balance. Two steps (sometimes 3 in DA:O) with about 4-5 choices to be made. 

 

I know there's always an instinct to streamline and reduce player choice to produce more consistent and less variable player experiences, but in this case that's a really bad thing. If they wanted to prevent players from gimping their warriors by putting all their points into willpower, then they should have a "suggest" button, or even a prompt that shows you an optimal stat allocation. But letting players make the choice is still important.