3034 réponses à ce sujet

[SphereofSilence]

BG2 didn't give you stats on level up either...

Hmm, my memory is admittedly sketchy...really?

[Medhia_Nox]

@Wulfsten:  And if they traded the +3/lvl for the Perk system?

[Silent Rogue]

Do attributes in this game have the same properties as in the previous games? Looking at the skyhold video when Cam is crafting his weapon the dps does not change with the added strength bonus. Unless there is a hidden multiplier??

[azarhal]

I found something interesting in a video (below, just posted in the Skill thread).

 

At 2:49 , you can see the entire level 10 Warrior Inquisitor attributes. Strength is at 32. Constitution is at 16. Everything else is at 10. We can also see other derived stats.

 

The character has talents in Two-Handed and Battlemaster trees. We don't see the trees themselves for the passives, but both of these only increase Strength going by the Skill tree thread. Also, we have a screenshot of a two-handed maul in the OP that can be used by a level 9 Warrior that add +12 Strength (and that's just the weapon, we don't know what the armor, belt and rings grants).

 

32 - 12 (for weapon) = 20. This leave 10 points from which 9 will come from passives.

The 6 points in constitution can easily come from gear too.

 

If we get auto-level up attribute distribution, it needs to be like 1 point per 10 level at this point.

 

 

[KoorahUK]

I found something interesting in a video (below, just posted in the Skill thread).

 

At 2:49 , you can see the entire level 10 Warrior Inquisitor attributes. Strength is at 32. Constitution is at 16. Everything else is at 10. We can also see other derived stats.

 

The character has talents in Two-Handed and Battlemaster trees. We don't see the trees themselves for the passives, but both of these only increase Strength going by the Skill tree thread. Also, we have a screenshot of a two-handed maul in the OP that can be used by a level 9 Warrior that add +12 Strength (and that's just the weapon, we don't know what the armor, belt and rings grants).

 

32 - 12 (for weapon) = 20. This leave 10 points from which 9 will come from passives.

The 6 points in constitution can easily come from gear too.

 

If we get auto-level up attribute distribution, it needs to be like 1 point per 10 level at this point.

 

 

Nice one. I am really coming around to believe there is no auto allocation of stats at all on level up.

[Keroko]

Are there really people who have managed to actually make builds that were impossible to play with?

I've actually never "un-built" a character - even if I have restarted some games simply because I didn't understand how a mechanic worked.  

 

Isn't all this very intuitive for anyone not just starting out?  And if you're just starting out playing RPG... wouldn't auto-level help?  

 

I just seriously don't get anyone who wants to make a Rogue with a high Magic score - or a mage that maxes Cunning.  

 

As for "roleplaying" - the mechanics are absolutely in DA:I and they're not tied to just a stat but your organization.

 

I made a sword 'n board templar/reaver as my first character. Stats were spread around strength, constitution and stamina with a smidge of dex.

 

It didn't work very well. Killing speed was mind-numbingly slow and the only reason I even managed to beat the game at all was because of the rest of the party. When awakenings gave me that respec potion, I gulped it down without second thought.

 

 

Do attributes in this game have the same properties as in the previous games? Looking at the skyhold video when Cam is crafting his weapon the dps does not change with the added strength bonus. Unless there is a hidden multiplier??

 

DPS seems to be weapon damage pre-stat calculations. It's going to be more when you're actually swinging it around, but any ability that says "% of weapon damage" is going to reach for this number.

 

 

I found something interesting in a video (below, just posted in the Skill thread).

 

At 2:49 , you can see the entire level 10 Warrior Inquisitor attributes. Strength is at 32. Constitution is at 16. Everything else is at 10. We can also see other derived stats.

 

The character has talents in Two-Handed and Battlemaster trees. We don't see the trees themselves for the passives, but both of these only increase Strength going by the Skill tree thread. Also, we have a screenshot of a two-handed maul in the OP that can be used by a level 9 Warrior that add +12 Strength (and that's just the weapon, we don't know what the armor, belt and rings grants).

 

32 - 12 (for weapon) = 20. This leave 10 points from which 9 will come from passives.

The 6 points in constitution can easily come from gear too.

 

If we get auto-level up attribute distribution, it needs to be like 1 point per 10 level at this point.

 

Hot-damn, nicely spotted. Yeah, really it looks like we're not getting any freebie attributes on levelups.

[Milan92]

So we don't gain any points during level up at all? 

[Keroko]

So we don't gain any points during level up at all? 

 

Doesn't look like it. Unless you pick a passive as your skillup.

[Rawgrim]

Hmm, my memory is admittedly sketchy...really?

 

No points on level up in BG2. The 2ed d&d rules never permitted that anyway. So they didn't remove anything that was already there in the first place.

[Salaya]

Ah, so its the necessity to seek the proper materials to raise the stats you wish which you find less direct. Well, yes. I will admit I was wrong on that part, that is a less direct method than just clicking the points to increase on a ding. But I don't see that as a bad thing.

 

The need to gather resources encourages thinking in advance. Do you want to put that constitution bonus on Varric's new shirt? Or Cassandra's new helmet? Cassandra's your tank, but on the other hand Varric has been on the brink of death a lot... or maybe you should head out and find some more resources so you can upgrade both?

 

This way, levelling is a far more involved process. You're actually going out in the field and work to increase a particular stat, rather than just grab a global pile of experience.

 

Also it's interesting that you describe a more complex method with B, yet claim A to be more complex. Both A and B can lead to bad decisions, but the difference is where A you potentially lose hours of gameplay by being forced to reload and old save (the only way to fix screwing up your stats in Origins) in B such a mistake can be recovered from. Which is a good thing. Mistakes are only useful if you learn from them. You still pay a price in B through the loss of resources, but you're not bound to it. Which in turn opens the ground to experiment. Maybe a bit more strength on your next set of daggers? Or perhaps some more stamina for longer combo's? You can experiment without having to reload and replay all the time.

 

A isn't more complex, it just discourages experimentation.

 

Glad to see we reached a common ground here.

 

I guess we still disagree in the meaning and implications of complexity -I said intentionally that B was more complex in gear customization, but not as a system, implying that overall, Origins way of handling this is more complex. What you see as experimentation and improvement I see it as simplification, homogenization and crowd appealing movements. A matter of perception, I guess

 

Let's hope that at the end, the level up system turns out to be fun and interesting.

[The Night Haunter]

No points on level up in BG2. The 2ed d&d rules never permitted that anyway. So they didn't remove anything that was already there in the first place.

It wasn't until 3 that you got an attribute boost every 4 levels (they mitigated this bonus by greatly reducing how effective a single point in each attribute was. DnD 2 a STR of 19 was pretty godly. 3.0 It was good, but not great by any means.)

[The Night Haunter]

One of my biggest worries is that Health and Stamina/Magic are 100% tied to Constitution and Willpower, as in DA2. In DAO you got some Health and Stamina/Mana every level even if you didn't put points into Con/Will, but DA2 removed this completely, so unless you used points in those attributes your max health/stamina/mana would stay the same the entire game. Was a stupid decision in my opinion.

[Rawgrim]

It wasn't until 3 that you got an attribute boost every 4 levels (they mitigated this bonus by greatly reducing how effective a single point in each attribute was. DnD 2 a STR of 19 was pretty godly. 3.0 It was good, but not great by any means.)

 

Quite right. 3.0 was also severely bugged - which was why they made 3.5 a year or two later.

[Elhanan]

Quite right. 3.0 was also severely bugged - which was why they made 3.5 a year or two later.

I actually pref the NWN1 version; improved the Ranger w/o becoming overpowered with so many Rogue additions.

As for the topic, looks like it comes down to accessories, Talents, and Spells; the base appears to remain the same.

[Ibn_Shisha]

My take on this, the new combat, and the heals issue:

 

Spoiler

[aries1001]

Apologies, I meant that it's all but confirmed we're not getting 3 points a level. A level 12 mage with 19 in magic makes little sense if we did.

 

If levelling still awards freebie points, it's less than in the last games. Ah, so its the necessity to seek the proper materials to raise the stats you wish which you find less direct. Well, yes. I will admit I was wrong on that part, that is a less direct method than just clicking the points to increase on a ding. But I don't see that as a bad thing.

 

The need to gather resources encourages thinking in advance. Do you want to put that constitution bonus on Varric's new shirt? Or Cassandra's new helmet? Cassandra's your tank, but on the other hand Varric has been on the brink of death a lot... or maybe you should head out and find some more resources so you can upgrade both?

 

This way, levelling is a far more involved process. You're actually going out in the field and work to increase a particular stat, rather than just grab a global pile of experience.

 

Also it's interesting that you describe a more complex method with B, yet claim A to be more complex. Both A and B can lead to bad decisions, but the difference is where A you potentially lose hours of gameplay by being forced to reload and old save (the only way to fix screwing up your stats in Origins) in B such a mistake can be recovered from. Which is a good thing. Mistakes are only useful if you learn from them. You still pay a price in B through the loss of resources, but you're not bound to it. Which in turn opens the ground to experiment. Maybe a bit more strength on your next set of daggers? Or perhaps some more stamina for longer combo's? You can experiment without having to reload and replay all the time.

 

A isn't more complex, it just discourages experimentation.

My take on the gathering of resources is this:
This seems more and more to be a hybrid game between an RTS and an RPG. As Keroko explains in his post (quoted above), we will now during our journey(s) decide whether or not Varric gets new gear or Cassandra gets a new helmet or a new shield etc. This,  at least to me, implies strategic thinking and planning ahead so that e.g. Varric, Iron Bull and Cassandra etc. are getting the correct gear at the right time.To me, it means that it will be necessary to unlock areas in the game I else wouldn't have explored...just for getting that iron or that special metal...

 

On the subject of no attribute points:

As I remember it, both Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2 didn't give you any ability points on level up. However, every level - or maybe every other level or so? - yoy could choose that e.g. Khalid should become better at wielding a sword or an axe. And for every level a mage got, the mage got to learn 1-2 (new) additional spells. If you wanted to boost your strength you needed to find or buy belt or gloves of strength. As such, this approach is not new to Bioware - in, fact, Bioware is returning to their rpg roots....

To me, when I read the Twitter response from the executives/leaders/bosses, it sound to me like Bioware has gotten inspired by playing
The Witcher games and Oblivion and Skyrim i.e. your abilities will grow when you use them etc.

 

[Lennard Testarossa]

As I remember it, both Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2 didn't give you any ability points on level up. However, every level - or maybe every other level or so? - yoy could choose that e.g. Khalid should become better at wielding a sword or an axe. And for every level a mage got, the mage got to learn 1-2 (new) additional spells. If you wanted to boost your strength you needed to find or buy belt or gloves of strength. As such, this approach is not new to Bioware - in, fact, Bioware is returning to their rpg roots....

 

The system in BG and the system in this game are nothing alike. In Baldur's Gate, you chose your attributes at character creation and thereby largely determined your character. The attributes were a description of the nature of a character. In DA, you don't choose your attributes at character creation and you do get attribute points on level-up, you simply don't get to choose where to put them.

 

(As a side note: Wizards in BG got to learn as many new spells as they wanted.)

[Ibn_Shisha]

No points on level up in BG2. The 2ed only true d&d rules never permitted that anyway. So they didn't remove anything that was already there in the first place.

Fixed that for you...

[xkg]

My take on the gathering of resources is this:
This seems more and more to be a hybrid game between an RTS and an RPG. As Keroko explains in his post (quoted above), we will now during our journey(s) decide whether or not Varric gets new gear or Cassandra gets a new helmet or a new shield etc. This,  at least to me, implies strategic thinking and planning ahead so that e.g. Varric, Iron Bull and Cassandra etc. are getting the correct gear at the right time.To me, it means that it will be necessary to unlock areas in the game I else wouldn't have explored...just for getting that iron or that special metal...

 

On the subject of no attribute points:

As I remember it, both Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2 didn't give you any ability points on level up. However, every level - or maybe every other level or so? - yoy could choose that e.g. Khalid should become better at wielding a sword or an axe. And for every level a mage got, the mage got to learn 1-2 (new) additional spells. If you wanted to boost your strength you needed to find or buy belt or gloves of strength. As such, this approach is not new to Bioware - in, fact, Bioware is returning to their rpg roots....

To me, when I read the Twitter response from the executives/leaders/bosses, it sound to me like Bioware has gotten inspired by playing
The Witcher games and Oblivion and Skyrim i.e. your abilities will grow when you use them etc.

 

 

In baldurs Gate if you made (18) STR Warrior it was almost impossible to double that through gear.

If there are no atrributes on level up at all in DAI, that means a simple weapon (+12 str as stated few posts ago) will more than double your starting (10) STR.  So this has nothing in common with the old system.

 

My take is: Think about it for a while. If the player stats weren't so dependent on gear people wouldn't buy tons of MP packs to get better stuff.

Can you see the connection? Thats IMO of course, you may not agree. Only time will tell, very soon.

[Elhanan]

As most of us do. It doesn't change the fact that if you find your point allocation is not working out - which lets be honest you can't really know until you've played with the build you've made, you have to reload your earlier save redistribute points and replay a certain amount of content. 
 
Its somewhat easier to say "no, that Tank Mage build isn't working, I'll change my mages STR/CON robes back for the MAG/WILL ones" and carry on.

The only build I recall having to start again was a plain 2H. The Attributes were fine, but I had not taken Sunders early enough, and he was as sluggish as syrup during combat. So Talents and Spells suffer in much the same way, it appears.

[Icy Magebane]

I found something interesting in a video (below, just posted in the Skill thread).

 

At 2:49 , you can see the entire level 10 Warrior Inquisitor attributes. Strength is at 32. Constitution is at 16. Everything else is at 10. We can also see other derived stats.

 

The character has talents in Two-Handed and Battlemaster trees. We don't see the trees themselves for the passives, but both of these only increase Strength going by the Skill tree thread. Also, we have a screenshot of a two-handed maul in the OP that can be used by a level 9 Warrior that add +12 Strength (and that's just the weapon, we don't know what the armor, belt and rings grants).

 

32 - 12 (for weapon) = 20. This leave 10 points from which 9 will come from passives.

The 6 points in constitution can easily come from gear too.

 

If we get auto-level up attribute distribution, it needs to be like 1 point per 10 level at this point.

So... our characters actually don't get attribute bonuses at all outside of passives?  Not sure how I feel about that...  I mean, I thought forced auto-leveling was bad, but now we're going to be almost entirely dependent on equipment to become more powerful...

[EnduinRaylene]

So... our characters actually don't get attribute bonuses at all outside of passives?  Not sure how I feel about that...  I mean, I thought forced auto-leveling was bad, but now we're going to be almost entirely dependent on equipment to become more powerful...

So the game not making decisions for us is now a bad thing? I mean it sucks if you don't like crafting or equipment management, but I can't see how this is really worse than having no control over stats growths for you party.

[XEternalXDreamsX]

I was bummed when I read the news. After replaying DAO and on a current DAA run, the stat distributioning system becomes pretty meh after reaching epic levels. As for the beginning of DAO, I felt immersed with trying get my coercion and cunning up to highest needed for dialogue options while I tried to maintain my STR (for equipment) and warrior/weapon skills as I leveled up. After that, it was pretty much STR/CON with DEX sprinkled in since I had more points than I'd ever need. I don't play 'Nightmare' mode so maybe that's why it feels trivial in DAA. Was it a bad system? I don't believe so.

As for DA2, it was pretty much two main stats for whichever class I played except maybe sprinkled CON for Rogue or Mage. I felt that in itself made the stat system rather bland. I always looked forward to the Skill trees more than anything at level up.

Now, after some time.. I believe this system might be a good thing so it won't feel as bland as DA2 or as trivial as late-game DAO and DAA. Want STR? Let's put a certain haft on this Battleaxe with a certain enchantment..Boom, +20 STR (besides other things as well)! Later in the game, maybe balance it more toward other stats (just rambling)

I'll be perfectly honest... I never crafted throughout any of the games except Vigilance and Wade's forged armor. I used DLC for DA2 and...I don't know how anyone was equipping some of the vanilla crap like Ring in exchange for another Ring, looks like I can equip Robe. Lol! The unique equipment was too sparse. I think they made a fresh change that looks promising from here. I would have been okay with the older systems, but I am open to change. They will make GREAT sales initially regard less; The reviews of players and following sales will likely prove the system to be a success or failure.

[Icy Magebane]

So the game not making decisions for us is now a bad thing? I mean it sucks if you don't like crafting or equipment management, but I can't see how this is really worse than having no control over stats growths for you party.

I thought my comment was pretty straightforward, but in case I was unclear, no I don't like relying on equipment to become stronger... at least with auto leveling, the actual PC would still become more powerful over time, even if we weren't in control of how they developed.

[heretica]

That's one sexy inquisitor there in the screenshots.

 

Hm.